the hate thread

[Thoth-Amon]

No, actually you just proved that you don't have much reading comprehension skills. The Bible is oftentimes not a straightforward book that you just read and get everything the first time. So let me gently break down your arguments:



The most widely accepted meaning of that passage is that they will not have ministered to all of Israel by the time Christ passes judgement on the Jews, like the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. "Till the Son of Man be come" is a pretty vague reference by itself, so it can easily not mean "until the apocalypse".



This generation does mean the Jews, but once again, it's referring to the destruction of the temple. Supposedly Christ showed himself again and ascended into Heaven before A.D. 70, hence all those things would be fulfilled by then and that generation of the Jews probably was not dead by then either.

And I'm really not sure what you found to "disprove Christianity" in your last several references to Scripture, so maybe you can elaborate on those. Honestly, I can think of much better arguments against Christianity than what you came up with. You're not the first arrogant guy who thought he knew better.

God this is SUCH BULLSHIT! Yeah I know nothing about reading the bible as I've read it at least a dozen times and have read tens of thousands of pages of theology, church history, church fathers, etc. The phrase "till the Son of Man be come" is used in the gospels to ALWAYS describe the second coming. What the hell does it mean otherwise? Jesus was supposedly sucked up into heaven before the apostles could have preached the gospel to all of Israel so obviously it can't refer to a time when Jesus was on earth.
This generation does NOT mean the Jews. If you read the parallel passage in Matthew 24 you'll notice that Jesus isn't talking about just the destruction of the temple: "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and, what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the END OF THE WORLD" (Matt. 24:3). Jesus then goes into a lengthy explanation in verses 4-34 where he describes the "sign of they coming" and the "end of the world" as occuring before the generation passes away.

 

[Ender Rises]

Dammit, I played the trump card, now quit arguing about it! oy vey, like a bunch of Irish folks, they are.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Dammit, I played the trump card, now quit arguing about it! oy vey, like a bunch of Irish folks, they are.

But he started it...

 

[Ender Rises]

emo

 

[Thoth-Amon]

emo

It was an impression of a whiny kid, you know when their parents break up an argument they always say "but he started it!" I suppose you didn't get that.

 

[Ender Rises]

I suppose you don't get sarcasm. And the fact that I was telling everyone to stop calling everyone else emo*.

*That one's called irony.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I suppose you don't get sarcasm. And the fact that I was telling everyone to stop calling everyone else emo*.

*That one's called irony.

:Smug:

 

[Under The Oak]

I love that smiley: :Smug:

Anyway, Thoth, if you wanted to continue this conversation, there is always the Philosophy forum. I am glad to hear you actually research your claims too, because I've met loads of people who don't. I'm not one to fight for the inerrancy of the Bible anyways.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I love that smiley: :Smug:

Anyway, Thoth, if you wanted to continue this conversation, there is always the Philosophy forum. I am glad to hear you actually research your claims too, because I've met loads of people who don't. I'm not one to fight for the inerrancy of the Bible anyways.

OK. I've posted extensively on the "Who Can Really Believe in the Bible" thread already.
Oh, also I wasn't bullshitting when I said I've read tens of thousands of pages of Christian theology, apologetics, etc. I was planning on becoming a priest at one time and was studying it thoroughly.

 

[Thasis]

I've never felt any connection with any sort of god, on a personal, spirtitual, or any sort of level. I find it wayyyy to hard to believe in it all, and realy, it's just not for me.

As for the bible, it's man-made, and it's been highly interpeted one way on purpose. Realy, I think people take it to seriously. It's ment to be a storybook full of morals similiar to asups fables (or however the fuck you spell it). That's just my take.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

OK. I've posted extensively on the "Who Can Really Believe in the Bible" thread already.
Oh, also I wasn't bullshitting when I said I've read tens of thousands of pages of Christian theology, apologetics, etc. I was planning on becoming a priest at one time and was studying it thoroughly.

so you arent christian anymore, what are you now?

 

[Thasis]

Athiest? Satanist? Both

 

[Under The Oak]

I was raised in a Christian home, but I guess I'm leaning more towards being a deist now. I can believe in a creator God who formed nature and music and all the other wonderful things we have, but I've never felt really convinced of whether or not he truly intervenes in life now, and I'll admit the Bible has a lot of "difficult" passages in it, to say the least.

 

[cookiecutter]

If you need a book to keep you moral, is that really a good thing?

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I was raised in a Christian home, but I guess I'm leaning more towards being a deist now. I can believe in a creator God who formed nature and music and all the other wonderful things we have, but I've never felt really convinced of whether or not he truly intervenes in life now, and I'll admit the Bible has a lot of "difficult" passages in it, to say the least.

Then you and I are fairly close in our beliefs. I was a Christian but lost my faith after finding passage after passage in the bible riddled with contradictions, absurdities, attrocities ordained by god, false prophecies, etc. Though I don't believe God made music, we did that. And I don't believe God intervenes in our lives. If he does why doesn't he actually intervene in any useful manner like feeding starving children or curing people of cancer?

 

[Under The Oak]

Though I don't believe God made music, we did that.

Well after the extensive music theory classes I've taken, I don't think we really ever "made it" - we just discovered the laws of what makes good music. We do create our own music, true, but I think all the theory behind it and insanely mathematical connections are not things we just made up. But who knows.

And I don't believe God intervenes in our lives. If he does why doesn't he actually intervene in any useful manner like feeding starving children or curing people of cancer?

See, this is what really confuses me. I've seen "God" do the impossible before. Not miracles or anything supernatural, but completely heal people with terminal cancer, give my family an adopted girl from China who was less than a month away from death, raise an exact dollar amount to the penny for families whose homes have burned down, and other sorts of things. I don't know if I'm to take these as freak occurences or just luck, but it's one of the only things keeping me from turning into a deist or atheist.

I know there are plenty of problems in the world with starving people and others who are dying and suffering horribly, and I don't have any answers why God might be selective in who he cures and who he doesn't. But I've always seen that as part of the price we might pay if there is a God over us. If he's God, he gets to do what he wants. It may not seem fair or logical to us, but we are the inferior creatures if there really is a God. It bugs me too.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Well after the extensive music theory classes I've taken, I don't think we really ever "made it" - we just discovered the laws of what makes good music. We do create our own music, true, but I think all the theory behind it and insanely mathematical connections are not things we just made up. But who knows.



See, this is what really confuses me. I've seen "God" do the impossible before. Not miracles or anything supernatural, but completely heal people with terminal cancer, give my family an adopted girl from China who was less than a month away from death, raise an exact dollar amount to the penny for families whose homes have burned down, and other sorts of things. I don't know if I'm to take these as freak occurences or just luck, but it's one of the only things keeping me from turning into a deist or atheist.

I know there are plenty of problems in the world with starving people and others who are dying and suffering horribly, and I don't have any answers why God might be selective in who he cures and who he doesn't. But I've always seen that as part of the price we might pay if there is a God over us. If he's God, he gets to do what he wants. It may not seem fair or logical to us, but we are the inferior creatures if there really is a God. It bugs me too.

Yes. It does bug me. Honestly though I've never seen anything that could not be explained as a natural occurance or just sheer luck...

 

[Thasis]

...even if god exists, why do we have to hail and worship him. If he's so mighty why should he care about our thoughts on him? And if he wants all to be good, harmonius, etc, why doesn't he give us some true proof so we have a reason.

 

[Under The Oak]

Thoth: I would've said the same thing after a few incidents, but at some point I think they get too numerous to count as luck. Of course every now and then I do step back and re-analyze those events, and sometimes I am overestimating them or I don't see what "went-on-behind-the-scenes", but there are some things that I don't believe have any natural explanation.

...even if god exists, why do we have to hail and worship him. If he's so mighty why should he care about our thoughts on him? And if he wants all to be good, harmonius, etc, why doesn't he give us some true proof so we have a reason.

I've heard it explained this way, and it sounds kinda fucked up, but bear with me. If God is perfect and holy and He can only love what is perfect and holy, then that must mean he loves himself more than us. That means that his greatest desire would be to see us worship him. Maybe all the talk about a loving God really just meant one who loves himself...

Also, concrete proof for a God would eliminate the need for faith, which is the cornerstone of most religions. If God revealed himself to all of us beyond a shadow of a doubt, would that stop us from doing whatever we want to do? Over time, we might even begin to question the existence of him, even though he stands right in front of us. We're questioning our own existences these days, so I'm not just tossing out wild assumptions.

 

[Thasis]

You only believe so because science hasn't proven it. I take things that are "unexplained" as simply not explained YET... just my thoughts...<<...>>...