The 'I love ProTools' thread

[James Murphy]

He means the order of the keys on the keyboard in the piano roll, to allow a user to set up which key triggers what samples in a way that is logical and efficient for them based on that particular track.

he means reordering keys in the piano roll. Drum mapping is the most common use of that.
No that function is not in PT.

You can transpose by octave or semi tone and more in realtime, quantize MIDI input in realtime, snap every note input to the key of the song. Realtime properties for the track or regions is a wonderful thing. Very similar to the MIDI Transform ( I think it's called) plugin in Cubase.

Watch this: Pro Tools 8 MIDI Explained Stop bickering.

Kaomao, as i said, a just tryied to do some joke with the PT midi, but i like it.... when i had opportunity to try PT workflow i barely touched midi....i asked to kill the curiosity too...hehe
Thanks James ... the only bad thing that i see is to not be able to change keys in piano roll (as Adam said)...but i'll try PT MIDI again changing the map on the virtual instrument interface... i think to memorize the keys isn't that bad...

no Dom, they are all wrong above... of course you can.. it's called Midi Mapping, and it's been part of midi and every midi software package since the mid '90's.

i just did this exact thing in the pre-pro session i finished a couple days ago... i set up Battery3 with a number of samples (you may recall the pic i linked; it said EzDrummer on the track name and comments, but a look at the insert shows i was actually using Battery) and mapped which pad on my Korg PadKontrol i wanted to play each of them. in this case Midi Mapping was implemented via Battery itself, using it's Learn function. pretty much all VI's have some implementation of this ancient (in terms of the life of the midi standard) functionality. also, though i used the PadKontrol in this case, I could just as easily have used my Kurzweil as a keyboard controller, in exactly the same way.

so sorry... wrong on that one too guys... and this is indicative that you guys just don't know the midi standard as well as you perhaps should... that is, if you're going to insist on commening so strongly about the capabilites, or lack thereof, of various midi packages, you should maybe learn the capabilities of midi that are irrespective of what software is used, rather than relying so heavily on the GUI conventions of your particular DAW's midi features... hey, i do it too... but i know what those features are addressing, under the hood.

if you do want to get to know it... look for a book or article... it's really worthwhile, because while recent GUI and "combo" implementations found in modern packages are killer, the root functionalities that allow them to happen are still there, under the hood... in the form of the Midi Standard.

 

[James Murphy]

Logic is still faster, look into the hyper editor please. It is just the piano roll, no separate velocity lane underneath. The heights of the notes on the piano roll itself represent the velocity. So click to add note, drag up or down to set velocty without letting go of mouse button and then when you have it where you want, let go and move to next note. You can set the note and velocity to whatever you want in one click, effectively cutting midi editing time in half. You can do tons of other stuff in the hyper editor as well, everythin is assignable to whatever you want.

faster in what way? how? "cutting midi editing time in half" based on what? quantify that!

i have looked into the Hyper Editor (watched several videos on youtube about it at your urging, including the official apple ones)... it's pretty cool, sure... but PT8's new Midi Editor functionally does all the same things:

i suggest you watch these two vids carefully, all the way through (but do watch them full screen on youtube, rather than here in the tiny embedded player):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-nzy0QWRMY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-nzy0QWRMY[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-zDgUir34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-zDgUir34[/ame]

the velocity editing in particular is something that you seemed quite keen to make a point about, and as you'll see in the vids, you can edit velocity right there in the new midi edit window, without switching to a special lane or anything... what he doesn't show in the vid, is the velocity "heights" view because it's hidden in the split-pane feature which, for reasons i can't comprehend, he has closed at that point in the vid. nevertheless, it's there.

regarding your other comments about midi event "shapes": yes, and PT does show some other controller data as different shapes... e.g., velocity has diamond shaped heads, sysex data appears as blocks... etc.... but to be honest, i hesitated to address this particular issue because it's incidental, and not something that is much of a boasting point for either Logic or Pro Tools... or any other DAW for that matter.

so far, the claims of any other DAW's midi superiority to PT's own midi functionality have just not stood up to scrutiny.... it's seeming, so far, to boil down to an "i like blue house paint, you like brown house paint" discussion; neither one is faster to paint with, you just like the looks of one better.

to be perfectly clear, i truly welcome having any significant midi feature demonstrated as not being contained within PT... i'd love to know about any, so i'll know something to ask for and look forward to in updates. regardless of what DAW anyone here uses, one thing's for sure; we can all look forward to many cool things around the corner as each package advances, adds new features, and copies each other.

 

[digitaldeath]

Well since this is the "I Love Pro-Tools" thread, I'm gonna say that Pro-Tools does so many things right compared to the competition, it's what made me fall in love with it. I mean, I still can't believe that no one has come out with a Beat Detective clone...! Their loss!

 

[DigitalMetal]

Going back to the Plugin delay compensation issue with PTLE and M-Powered im amazed that nobody mentioned the Mellowmuse ATA software,

http://www.mellowmuse.com/ATA.html

Watch the videos on the siteto see how it works - very simple,

And with regards to drum maps - I would like to see them in PT, recently i had to remap some programming that had been done by someone else in cubase and could have really done with the piano roll notes being named as a quick reference as i was building the track,

Instead i had to have pieces of paper in front of me with it all written out - very messy

Maybe midi mapping can help me with that - please let me know if its possible as ive searched the web for any tips/pointers and cant find anything that makes any sense on the subject,



Also these days not every piece of software pays attention to GM mapping like they used to For example the old Native instruments Rompler DFH2 (not the superior but the one based on the original DFH sample CD) was all over the place.

I also do a lot of electronic music and i dont feel PT integrates with midi hardware (synths etc) quite so nicely as perhaps Cubase/Nuendo (with the external harware instruments & FX section and Device panels) but its no biggie, just a small example of what i mean.

With regards to automatic output assignment of VI's - asked earlier by someone else, IMO PT does not seem quite so slick as cubase,
eg, if i create an instrument channel in PT and insert a VI with multiple outputs -Say BFD2, i have to go through and create extra channels for it multiple outputs and assign the outputs of BFD2 to the inputs of each channel manually, ( if someone can show me a faster way of doing this please do).

However in cubase i can open a VstI and i will be asked if i want an instrument track to be created and associated with the instument, this will make a stereo track just like in PT, but if i click the multiple output mode button on the VSTi selection box, bang it will automatically create and assign all 16 (or however many)channels and outputs for the instrument,

Its little workflow things like this that makes cubase desirable to people heavily using Synths and VSTi's/VI's

Im not saying i like cubase more, i dont - Hell ive invested a lot of money in a PTHD rig and its my main workstation but cubase/sonar/logic and the rest do have a lot of very useful little nuggets that PT does not seem to and Digi still could learn a thing or 2 from the competition,
No those features dont stop me having workarounds or other fixes to speed up my productivity, but i would certainly welcome them if offered by digidesign.

IMHO PT is the best audio editor / multitrack recording and mixing environment i have come accross but its not the best midi composition platform ......yet.

plus Digi really need to improve stability of PT8 as its nowhere near as solid as 7.4 for many users (not all - myself included) just take a look through the Digidesign DUC forum.

my 2 pennies worth,

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Going back to the Plugin delay compensation issue with PTLE and M-Powered im amazed that nobody mentioned the Mellowmuse ATA software,

http://www.mellowmuse.com/ATA.html

Watch the videos on the siteto see how it works - very simple,

Never worked with me, at least on PT 8. Even the demo project was completely fucked up. Haven't tried on the new computer yet, though.

 

[DigitalMetal]

Never worked with me, at least on PT 8. Even the demo project was completely fucked up. Haven't tried on the new computer yet, though.

It does work with PTLE 8.0.1 as ive just used it, it can be a real ass to set up if you have lots of busses but it does work and may be helpful to anyone trying to mix in LE or MP,

Usually i wouldnt dare try and mix anything in LE using the same workflow i use in HD - there would be delay all over the place,

But every now and again i try a lil bit on my mobile Le rig and this ATA goes lil way to helping.

 

[The-Zeronaut]

last night i spent 6 hours quantizing a 7 min song ...not bad (i think) since its my first time using BD
i still have 4 more songs to BD...

i hope to get faster with time (and practice)

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Just a question for all PT LE/M powered user:

How do you deal with only 18 I/O?

I can't understand because my minimum nead for simple kit drum config is:

2out for monitor
2out for drummer monitor

So we have only 14 in
Kick=2 in (mic and trig)
Snare= 3in (2mic and trig)
Tom=6 in (3 mic and 3 trig)
OH=2in
HH= 1 in

And with that I still 2 more I/O for ride cymbal and room mic

Sound like I need to go with an HD1

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Just a question for all PT LE/M powered user:

How do you deal with only 18 I/O?

I can't understand because my minimum nead for simple kit drum config is:

2out for monitor
2out for drummer monitor

So we have only 14 in
Kick=2 in (mic and trig)
Snare= 3in (2mic and trig)
Tom=6 in (3 mic and 3 trig)
OH=2in
HH= 1 in

And with that I still 2 more I/O for ride cymbal and room mic

Sound like I need to go with an HD1

No. It's 18 in AND 18 out at the same time.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

No. It's 18 in AND 18 out at the same time.

That a big change
Thanks for this info

 

[::XeS::]

I sacrifice the toms triggers.
kick 2 (mic and trig)
Snare 3 (2mics and trig)
Toms 3
Oh 2
hh & ride 2
amb 2
=16
2 available in's for cymbals, ambience or other triggers

 

[SkybluestudiosBEN]

Micing and triggering the snare and kick is a waist of 2 inputs. You can trigger off the Kick and Snare mics.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Thanks for all this clarification guys
I still need to directly made the switch to an HD1 setup (I need 24 out summing) but now I can considering an LE setup for portable rig
That cool

 

[::XeS::]

Micing and triggering the snare and kick is a waist of 2 inputs. You can trigger off the Kick and Snare mics.

I use them to editing purpose, because the trigger is much more accurate in some parts than the miced tracks. Trigger track is also usefull if you wanna gate the miced tracks. I use triggers only for snare and kick because they are always used during a song, toms are used way less...

 

[John_C]

I use them to editing purpose, because the trigger is much more accurate in some parts than the miced tracks. Trigger track is also usefull if you wanna gate the miced tracks. I use triggers only for snare and kick because they are always used during a song, toms are used way less...

+1
yeah you can trigger from mics, but triggers are better and will save you no end of trouble.

 

[JeffTD]

Micing and triggering the snare and kick is a waist of 2 inputs. You can trigger off the Kick and Snare mics.

So you like spending a ton of time cleaning everything up and making sure it triggers properly rather than a one time, easy as balls audio -> midi conversion off the trigger track?

Not to mention it makes seeing things while editing a shloooooad easier.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Pro tools doesn't have logical presets, which allow you to make changes to notes in a statement form

this allows for things such as humanizing drums, selecting all notes of a similair velocity, or even computing small calculations in changing a piece of music (like transform all f's to f sharp) you can also do things like velocity compression (select notes, apply percentage, result is the edit) and cleanup functions ( delete doubles, make monophonic, or polyphonic overlap cleaning). randomization of velocity over a selection of notes, fixed pitch, along with having an info bar where any of this information can be manually typed in for each and every single note (pro tools only has velocity typing). and any of these actions can be scripted (built right in to cubase) and made into a macro

additionally, without drum map capabilities, it is also more difficult to make velocity/drum note changes. This is minor and could be adapted to by the users, but cubase has it nailed in my opinion.

For anyone who has an HD rig and 500 bucks to spare, just buy cubase 5 and make your programmed drums there and import the midi into protools. If you use kontakt, or toontrack products, you can even load the same plugin and multi instrument in both daws and play back the midi no problem.

my main point, without the logical processor, pro tools is small when compared to cubase in the midi department.

 

[James Murphy]

Joey.... you're wrong again... well, not totally ... some of those can't yet be done in PT, but some can. the Velocity Operations that can be performed in PT currently, like randomizing, applying percentages, etc. by opening the Event Operations window (Option + 3). Velocity Compression can be achieved as well, along a number of other midi operations in the Midi Real-Time Properties window (Option + 4), and there is a Remove Duplicate Notes option under the Event menu, which handles the overlapping issues you mentioned.

regarding transposing, as in your example of changing all F's to F#'s is also easily done it PT, but it's handled based on the key of the music... so if you are in say for instance G minor and want to transpose to G Major (which would change F's to F#'s, Bb's to B's, and Eb's to E's) or another key, you do this with the Transpose Operations window (Option + T) or just call up the Event Operations window as before and choose Transpose from the drop down menu.

the "info bar" you mention sounds like the Midi Event List in PT (Option + =), and pretty much every MIDI software package has one and, exactly as you describe, you can manually type in what you want for each and every single note.

some of your points are definitely valid though, and are good things for guys like us in the user base to lobby for in future PT updates.

 

[joeymusicguy]

Joey.... you're wrong again... well, not totally ... some of those can't yet be done in PT, but some can. the Velocity Operations that can be performed in PT currently, like randomizing, applying percentages, etc. by opening the Event Operations window (Option + 3). Velocity Compression can be achieved as well, along a number of other midi operations in the Midi Real-Time Properties window (Option + 4), and there is a Remove Duplicate Notes option under the Event menu, which handles the overlapping issues you mentioned.

regarding transposing, as in your example of changing all F's to F#'s is also easily done it PT, but it's handled based on the key of the music... so if you are in say for instance G minor and want to transpose to G Major (which would change F's to F#'s, Bb's to B's, and Eb's to E's) or another key, you do this with the Transpose Operations window (Option + T) or just call up the Event Operations window as before and choose Transpose from the drop down menu.

the "info bar" you mention sounds like the Midi Event List in PT (Option + =), and pretty much every MIDI software package has one and, exactly as you describe, you can manually type in what you want for each and every single note.

some of your points are definitely valid though, and are good things for guys like us in the user base to lobby for in future PT updates.

like always i didnt explain some of my points very well

for instance, bringing up the midi event list to change the numbers of midi data is irrelavant because it doesnt fit into a work flow im talking about doing this on the fly... like even during play back, or even clicking a note, and instantly having keyboard control of what velocity that note is, etc. etc.
like drawing in 3 or 4 kicks, and setting those 3 or 4 kicks to different velocity numbers in a couple of key strokes. i know pt has that little velocity box, but its actually not even labeled first of all, and secondly its kind of cluttery and clunky!

and about the changing of notes... this is important in drum map incompatibilities. i dont see an automated way of making the following happen in one fell swoop:
[make all c0's c1's, make all c1's d1's, if any f#3's are below 80 velocity, set to fixed 80 velocity, etc, etc]

but you're right on some other points, pt does have the event operations which helps it in this area of production, but they need better workflow options.