The next superduperstars . . .

[NAD]

How much money do labels like Century Media and Nuclear Blast make anyhow? It can't be all that much I would assume. At least you can find their records in most mainstream stores, which is a good thing.

 

[Erik]

Quality bands does not a good label make. Though Century Media are probably much better than Nuclear Blast.

 

[JayKeeley]

I'm surprised that Dreamlord would hate Lacuna Coil and Solefald that much.

 

[J.]

I don't hate LC or Solefald. I just have no need for either.

 

[J.]

Though Century Media are probably much better than Nuclear Blast.

True. It amazes me how much crap is on NB.

 

[Erik]

I'm also thinking of all the tonnes of cash-in crap they release... Like the new Dimmu Borgir (available on jew-elcase CD, promo cassette, crippled promo CD, digipak, OH NOTEBOOK EDITION!!!!!!!!!, LP, probably pic LP, oh and about six million different shirts and coasters and thongs and jogging suits and coffee mugs.) And ask the bands that were on NB but were commercial failures if they liked it. Ask Gardenian, ask Dismember if they liked Nuclear Blast.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Arch Enemy, but In Flames and Soilwork aren't far behind.

 

[Demonspell]

In my opinion, Nevermore deserves it the most and has the least possibility of breaking into the mainstream, which I imagine suits Warrel just fine. As for CM, while their roster is at least half crap (generous estimate), they do have their share of quality bands, most of whom get ignored by their promotions department in favor of the more commercially viable acts like Arch Enemy and Lacuna Coil. And Nuclear Blast has a worse track record IMO.

 

[Black Winter Day]

my mainstream-only friend recognized nevermore. i think that says it all, for me.

goooooo warrell!!!!

 

[JayKeeley]

I still don't understand npearce's definition of "mainstream". I thought that most people didn't want "metal to get bigger" or "their favourite bands to make the mainstream"?

If you're against the mainstream, then why would bands like Nevermore "deserve" to break into the mainstream? You say it as if it's a good thing which contradicts everything that's always been mentioned in this regard? According to Dreamlord, don't bands only maintain their integrity if (and only if) they commission their own records, go bankrupt in the making, and never (by any means necessary) be seen by the 'general' public?

Aren't these bands mainstream: Iron Maiden, Tool, Motorhead, System of a Down, Anthrax, Marilyn Manson, Danzig, Cradle of Filth?

I think there is at least one band in that list that everybody here holds in high regard. Other than Dreamlord of course because he'll deny everything just to prolong the argument (even though we all know he's a closet Opeth fan boy).

 

[NAD]

Aren't these bands mainstream: Iron Maiden, Tool, Motorhead, System of a Down, Anthrax, Marilyn Manson, Danzig, Cradle of Filth?

I don't think Cradle of Filth is, but I don't watch MTV so I wouldn't know. Also, I think Danzig is no longer in the mainstream anymore, since his latest album sold under 20,000 units (the figure was around 17,000 within the first 6 months of its release. I just tried to confirm that but came up empty, d'oh).

I could give two shits about what is in the mainstream or not. If I like it, I like it. I just usually choose not to associate myself with the "typical" fans of some mainstream acts (buy the CDs, but not the t-shirts, ya know?).

 

[Demonspell]

I know that looks like the wrong choice of words...I used it because I prefer Nevermore musically over the other options in this poll, and since I don't see any overt commerciality in their music, if they were to break through at this moment it would be with their integrity intact.

 

[JayKeeley]

I could give two shits about what is in the mainstream or not. If I like it, I like it. I just usually choose not to associate myself with the "typical" fans of some mainstream acts (buy the CDs, but not the t-shirts, ya know?).

Right, but then I've not understood this thread, or the other one that's like this. It's all about double standards - people thinking that their favorite artists deserve to hit the mainstream (e.g. MASTODON or NEVERMORE), and then once they do, they'll be accused of being "sell outs" by the same people who wanted them to be succesful in the first place.

Or am I totally missing the point here?

 

[NAD]

I think npearce wants to see our predictions for the next big thing, whether he wants them there is irrelevant. Unless I'm missing the point.

 

[JayKeeley]

I know that looks like the wrong choice of words...I used it because I prefer Nevermore musically over the other options in this poll, and since I don't see any overt commerciality in their music, if they were to break through at this moment it would be with their integrity intact.

It's a double edged sword and I'd like to see anybody deny it. There is no way, for example, that Arch Enemy sound more commercial than Nevermore (using death vocals and whatever else) but yet they're accused of being sellouts, no? If their records didn't sell well, nobody would give a shit.

I think that if Nevermore "made it big" (still waiting for anyone to explain that term, btw) then no matter what they did, they would always be accused of being sell outs just because they wouldn't have that small, close knit community of fans supporting them anymore. The mall-core crowd would now be buying show tickets as well.

It's got nothing to do with the music at the end of the day, but it's all to do with (a) how many records the band sold, and (b) how many people in the 'general public' have heard of them. Once the band 'secret' is leaked, that generally equates to underground suicide by the original fans.

 

[JayKeeley]

I think npearce wants to see our predictions for the next big thing, whether he wants them there is irrelevant. Unless I'm missing the point.

OK let's see here...

Nevermore is cursed. They will never be much bigger.

And in response to Erik questioning that...

Depends on how you look at it I guess. Nevermore is infintely better than Arch Enemy, but the label is practically ready to drop them. Their music is easily ready to make waves in the mainstream (probably to many solos, though), but for some reason Arch Enemy gets all the money from the label.

"music is easily ready to make waves in the mainstream", and "Arch Enemy gets all the money from the label" instead????????????????????

I dunno, maybe it's just me then, but it sounds like npearce wants Nevermore to get more financial support because they're ready for the mainstream.

It's pretty black & white to me.

 

[J.]

According to Dreamlord, don't bands only maintain their integrity if (and only if) they commission their own records, go bankrupt in the making, and never (by any means necessary) be seen by the 'general' public?

Well, that's pushing it. I like a lot of Willowtip and Relapse bands, and I'm pretty sure they aren't bankrupt, but I'm also pretty sure they aren't living off the band. And I see most of those bands keeping their integrity. Unless people are accusing Pig Destroyer of dumbing down their sound.

My thing is this: No person starts a metal band with the sole intent of making money. They do it because they love making the music. And if they want to turn into millionaire rock stars, then they need to pick another type of music, because their heart isn't in the right place. These same people know EXACTLY what will make their band popular, such as having a gimmick, dumbing down their sound, accepting more commercially accepted elements into their music.

I'm tired of seeing bands give in to the power of the almighty dollar. Isn't integrity more important?

I think there is at least one band in that list that everybody here holds in high regard. Other than Dreamlord of course because he'll deny everything just to prolong the argument (even though we all know he's a closet Opeth fan boy).

Yeah, and I also wear sheep skin loin-clothes with oil rubbed all over my body while listening to Manowar.

 

[JayKeeley]

My thing is this: No person starts a metal band with the sole intent of making money. They do it because they love making the music. And if they want to turn into millionaire rock stars, then they need to pick another type of music, because their heart isn't in the right place.

Then you've got no idea how many records a band needs to sell in order to make millions of dollars. You can triple the amount of records that Dimmu Borgir sell, for example, and I guarantee they won't be making millions.

What about bands that make music just because they happen to like what they play? And what happens if said music just happens to be popular? They're doomed from the get-go, no? With your logic, a band (regardless of their personal tastes) is supposed to go out and make the most "off-the-wall" music possible just to maintain some level of integrity because it won't sell enough to make them millionaries.

These same people know EXACTLY what will make their band popular, such as having a gimmick, dumbing down their sound, accepting more commercially accepted elements into their music.

Only in your opinion though! I listed the bands earlier: Maiden, System of a Down, Tool, AC/DC etc. They are all mainstream, all making money, and ALL perfectly content with what they play. They haven't changed for anyone, but since you hate them all with a passion, they must lack integrity!!

I'm tired of seeing bands give in to the power of the almighty dollar. Isn't integrity more important?

Who are you to judge that? Right or wrong, you sell autographed magazines to fans. You tell people to buy limited edition CD's just so they can resell them at a profit on eBay. That contradicts everything you say doesn't it?

 

[J.]

Then you've got no idea how many records a band needs to sell in order to make millions of dollars. You can triple the amount of records that Dimmu Borgir sell, for example, and I guarantee they won't be making millions.

Sure I do. Bands don't make their money from CD sales. They make it from merchandise and tours.

What about bands that make music just because they happen to like what they play? And what happens if said music just happens to be popular? They're doomed from the get-go, no? With your logic, a band (regardless of their personal tastes) is supposed to go out and make the most "off-the-wall" music possible just to maintain some level of integrity because it won't sell enough to make them millionaries.

Are we talking strictly metal bands here? I'm going to assume we are. Again, my point was that NO BAND should start playing metal with the SOLE intent of becoming successful (ie. living off the band). Ask Erik and Sorath if they think Nasheim will make them lots of cash. I bet the same can be said for the majority of metal bands. But then as time goes on, bands start looking at ways to get a bit more money, then just a bit more, and pretty soon, everything is compromised. Perhaps not in the band's eyes, but fans aren't blind.

Only in your opinion though! I listed the bands earlier: Maiden, System of a Down, Tool, AC/DC etc. They are all mainstream, all making money, and ALL perfectly content with what they play. They haven't changed for anyone, but since you hate them all with a passion, they must lack integrity!!

You're putting words in my mouth. I do not like any of those bands, but "don't like" does equal "hate". Hell, I admit to liking Tool's Aenima.

Who are you to judge that? Right or wrong, you sell autographed magazines to fans. You tell people to buy limited edition CD's just so they can resell them at a profit on eBay. That contradicts everything you say doesn't it?

I sell used CDs to get that CD into the hands of a fan that will listen to it instead of letting it rot on a used shelf. And if it happens to bring me a little coin, then so be it. The same goes with that autographed magazine. I had absolutely ZERO use for it. So why not sell it to somebody who would get a kick out of having it? Perhaps someone that cannot afford to go to an in-store signing or to an Opeth concert. And it's not like it sold for mega-bucks anyway. Hell, I started the auction off at $1.

Plus, ALL the money I make off eBay goes right back into my CD collection, which means I'm putting every cent I earn from selling autographs and CDs back into the metal bands I love. That's integrity.

 

[Nate The Great]

Your discussions above are exactly why I started these threads.

I honestly don't care if a band makes it into the mainstream . . . as long as they don't compromise the music that got them their (Cradle of Filth for example).

I am simply trying to see who thinks which bands will go somewhere.

Now that Rolling Stone and even MTV have acknowledged that nu-metal is dead, I'm wondering where this leaves all those "metal" fans that were buying their crap. Will they go on to buy In Flames, Lamb of God, and Mastodon?

That's where I'm going with these threads. I have nothing against mainstream music . . . it's just that most of it sucks. If Nevermore signs to Epic Records and tours with Metallica, I'll still like them as long as they don't change their style to a more "pop" oriented approach (which always helps in the quest for being mainstream).