The Political & Philosophy Thread

I've loved watching WikiLeaks confirm how ineffably devious and mendacious anyone who's payed observant attention for years now knows she is. Between the authorization of sale of firearms to ISIS and al-Qaeda in Syria, and the media's calculated, sycophantic worship of her and sleazy, disingenuous calumniation of Trump among other stuff, it's all very telling.
 
P.S., rocking my Alice Cooper Make America Sick Again t-shirt today. Vote Alice Cooper 2016, a troubled man for troubled times.
 
Poor Trump - he's just overflowing with integrity and good will, it's unfair how he gets bullied by that mean old Hillary.
Strawman much, pal? Never said I felt Trump was some bastion of integrity or magnanimity. Just pointing out how, even though he does suck, Hillary and the media in general seem to love outright making shit up about him for the purpose of defamation. See also, for just one instance, CNN running a story that the Secret Service had reprimanded him for his joke about the second amendment a few days back. It's been established that the media is colluding with the DNC and Hillary's campaign too, courtesy of WikiLeaks.
 
Cherry-pick much, pal? There's conservative media out there too, and it's at least as bad as liberal media. The fact that we live in a world of media bubbles doesn't make a politician better or worse.
 
Except the larger corporate media is primarily liberal in disposition with the almost sole exception of the waterheaded laughingstock that is FOX. This isn't cherry-picking, it's pointing out that a disturbingly large procession of major media outlets are more left-slanted than the optometrics ward of a Hiroshima victims clinic. Rolling Stone, CNN, NBC, MSNBC, NPR, ABC, CBS, etc. have all been caught taking direct orders from the DNC and at times even Hillary's campaign via private email about what they are permitted to report and how they're permitted to report it. Trump, as far as is known, at least isn't coordinating the media at large in attacks against Hillary, including going to the point of pure disingenuous fabrication. I'm dubious he could either, seeing as most of them are firmly tucked away in the DNC's back pocket.
 
Good point, though I would add that ultimately (aside from NPR) you're talking about corporations, and the political leanings of corporations overall span the political spectrum if you factor in non-media industries. The legality of corporate political speech has been famously sanctioned by Citizens United v. FEC, which notably was decided by a conservative-leaning court.

At the risk of sounding like a sellout, I'd argue that there's merit to the political role of corporations, especially compared to those of the general public, since corporations are overwhelmingly macroeconomically rational, and the general public is overwhelmingly not.

In principle, though, I believe the First Amendment should be modified to reduce the influence of money in elections (which, I hope, would make it less likely for wealthy elites like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton to dominate the Presidential races).
 
Very much true, but ultimately immaterial to my point, which is about the corporate media and major media (given larger but ultimately non-corporate media outlets like NPR are part of what I'm getting at too), not corporate entities at large. And I'm not saying it's any sort of illegal act they're committing by having a general bias, but it is verifiably corrupt, duplicitous, and, at times, outright malicious the way they handle it. Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but making the majority of big media beholden to one political bias over another en masse, and doing so via private, behind closed doors collusion? I'm almost certain that qualifies as rigging an election, which I know for a fact is not only repugnant and detestable, but illegal. In other words, creating a nigh monopoly on public media opinion with closed doors payouts and other under the table deals? Is something of an electoral fraud, and something I refuse to stand for. Personally I don't feel corporate money in politics (as vociferously as I may loathe it) should be made illegal by an abridgement to our first amendment. Rather, make all money in politics mandatorily transparent in its exchange, reception, recipients, etc. with the proper legislative measures, thusly informing the people of who's getting what, how much are they getting, who are they getting it from, and what does that all entail.
 
At the risk of sounding like a sellout, I'd argue that there's merit to the political role of corporations, especially compared to those of the general public, since corporations are overwhelmingly macroeconomically rational, and the general public is overwhelmingly not.

Well said.

Very much true, but ultimately immaterial to my point, which is about the corporate media and major media (given larger but ultimately non-corporate media outlets like NPR are part of what I'm getting at too), not corporate entities at large. And I'm not saying it's any sort of illegal act they're committing by having a general bias, but it is verifiably corrupt, duplicitous, and, at times, outright malicious the way they handle it. Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but making the majority of big media beholden to one political bias over another en masse, and doing so via private, behind closed doors collusion? I'm almost certain that qualifies as rigging an election, which I know for a fact is not only repugnant and detestable, but illegal. In other words, creating a nigh monopoly on public media opinion with closed doors payouts and other under the table deals? Is something of an electoral fraud, and something I refuse to stand for. Personally I don't feel corporate money in politics (as vociferously as I may loathe it) should be made illegal by an abridgement to our first amendment. Rather, make all money in politics mandatorily transparent in its exchange, reception, recipients, etc. with the proper legislative measures, thusly informing the people of who's getting what, how much are they getting, who are they getting it from, and what does that all entail.

There's a lot going on in this comment.

First, while "corrupt" and "illegal" don't necessarily mean the same thing, much that we identify as corrupt is also illegal. If we are making a clear legislative distinction between the two, then it seems to me that "corrupt" is more of an ethical (if not moral) judgment rather than any kind of definitive identification of deplorable action.

Intentionally reporting false information is certainly a reprehensible act, but most media platforms can get around this by claiming that a) they didn't know they were reporting false information, or b) reporting information that is vague enough so as to avoid accusation. Incorporating bias into news reports isn't illegal, nor is it avoidable. Reporting will always be biased, and most journalists do happen to lean left. Simply providing information in a skewed manner isn't rigging an election, nor is it electoral fraud. Whether or not you'll stand for it won't really make much difference, because it's simply the cost of circulating information at an immensely complex scale. Unless you want to go do all your own investigative journalism, we don't really have much choice. It sounds as though you don't buy into most of what you read/hear on "liberal" sites anyway, so... it's not as though you're being misinformed (from your perspective, anyway ;)).

Regarding transparency in monetary exchanges, would it really make much difference? Those who already suspect such transactions aren't buying what major media is selling, and those who don't probably won't/don't care all that much. If big money is financing political interests that you happen to find ethically valuable and worth pursuing, then why oppose such financing? Obviously, there are subtleties to this that should be acknowledged and considered (e.g. the slippery slope that such corporate collusion entails, whether political interests are central to such transactions or merely tangential, the role of democratic processes alongside such collusion, etc.); but it strikes me that, upon its immediate exposure, such collusion won't inspire widespread revolution or resistance on the part of individuals.

And finally, this kind of collusion is mostly transparent already - it simply isn't widely reported, which obviously creates a bit of a structural conundrum. That is, this kind of collusion/corruption is exposed by journalists who simply make an effort to look more closely at the money trails. The information is all there, it's just a matter of who wants to look for it. Now, if media platforms are the ones benefiting from the financing, then they obviously aren't going to report on the financing. As far as reporting financial agreements, or making them public, this doesn't amount to publishing them on the front page of local newspapers - it simply means making them available for the public if the public chooses to look them up.

In whose interest would it be to mandate that media platforms post, on their front pages or their websites, what monies are changing hands? The most obvious answer is "the public"; but this would have to be mandated by the same political institutions who, according to the present discussion, are already channeling funds into those media platforms for the purposes of manipulating coverage. Seeing as these political institutions must, at some point or other within their own internal ethical logic (which they do have - even Hitler had an ethics), rationalize their actions as beneficial to the public in some regard, we face a structural contradiction regarding communication between state and private institutions, and the general public.

As far as I'm concerned, the information that the public needs is already available, either directly or indirectly. It has less to do with some kind of Orwellian purity of language/communication, and more to do with an inquiry into the structural relations that govern informational transmission.

tl;dr - absolute informational transparency already exists, just not for an individual human observer.
 
There's a lot going on in this comment.

First, while "corrupt" and "illegal" don't necessarily mean the same thing, much that we identify as corrupt is also illegal. If we are making a clear legislative distinction between the two, then it seems to me that "corrupt" is more of an ethical (if not moral) judgment rather than any kind of definitive identification of deplorable action.

Intentionally reporting false information is certainly a reprehensible act, but most media platforms can get around this by claiming that a) they didn't know they were reporting false information, or b) reporting information that is vague enough so as to avoid accusation. Incorporating bias into news reports isn't illegal, nor is it avoidable. Reporting will always be biased, and most journalists do happen to lean left. Simply providing information in a skewed manner isn't rigging an election, nor is it electoral fraud. Whether or not you'll stand for it won't really make much difference, because it's simply the cost of circulating information at an immensely complex scale. Unless you want to go do all your own investigative journalism, we don't really have much choice. It sounds as though you don't buy into most of what you read/hear on "liberal" sites anyway, so... it's not as though you're being misinformed (from your perspective, anyway ;)).

Regarding transparency in monetary exchanges, would it really make much difference? Those who already suspect such transactions aren't buying what major media is selling, and those who don't probably won't/don't care all that much. If big money is financing political interests that you happen to find ethically valuable and worth pursuing, then why oppose such financing? Obviously, there are subtleties to this that should be acknowledged and considered (e.g. the slippery slope that such corporate collusion entails, whether political interests are central to such transactions or merely tangential, the role of democratic processes alongside such collusion, etc.); but it strikes me that, upon its immediate exposure, such collusion won't inspire widespread revolution or resistance on the part of individuals.

And finally, this kind of collusion is mostly transparent already - it simply isn't widely reported, which obviously creates a bit of a structural conundrum. That is, this kind of collusion/corruption is exposed by journalists who simply make an effort to look more closely at the money trails. The information is all there, it's just a matter of who wants to look for it. Now, if media platforms are the ones benefiting from the financing, then they obviously aren't going to report on the financing. As far as reporting financial agreements, or making them public, this doesn't amount to publishing them on the front page of local newspapers - it simply means making them available for the public if the public chooses to look them up.

In whose interest would it be to mandate that media platforms post, on their front pages or their websites, what monies are changing hands? The most obvious answer is "the public"; but this would have to be mandated by the same political institutions who, according to the present discussion, are already channeling funds into those media platforms for the purposes of manipulating coverage. Seeing as these political institutions must, at some point or other within their own internal ethical logic (which they do have - even Hitler had an ethics), rationalize their actions as beneficial to the public in some regard, we face a structural contradiction regarding communication between state and private institutions, and the general public.

As far as I'm concerned, the information that the public needs is already available, either directly or indirectly. It has less to do with some kind of Orwellian purity of language/communication, and more to do with an inquiry into the structural relations that govern informational transmission.

tl;dr - absolute informational transparency already exists, just not for an individual human observer.

It's far from simply reporting information in a purposely skewed manner. I could give a rat's ass as it were if it was organically just a bunch of left-leaning people who just so happened to think that way and let it skew their reporting. That, of course, is merely corrupt, and not illegal. The issue is when media outlets are being paid to ensure they only say select things in select ways. When you are buying off the media so they say only what you want them to in order to influence an election? That is indeed electoral fraud and rigging an election and that is demonstrably and precisely what the DNC has done. And I could very well be being misinformed, I could be wrong about a great many things for all I know. And if I am wrong, I'd like to discover such so that I may properly realign and correct my thinking. As for transparency of monetary exchange, yes it would genuinely be worthwhile to have an easy way of knowing first thing's first what money trails go where and when. Whether the cause the money is going towards is something I find ethically venerable or not is nothing to me. Whether I agree with what it's advancing or not, candor is what's strategic here. I am desirious of transparency in this regard from all political aisles and segments and perhaps upon having this information revealed to me, I will be better cognizant of who and who isn't deserving of my trust and, or readership. It may change my mind on the matter entirely depending on what it's revelatory of. I would also be opposed to big money moving things in just about any direction in politics, irrespective of my personal veneration of the cause it's forwarding. I'd rather it was honestly voted for and ratified in an organic, natural way. With respect to its effect on the genreal populace and their mindset, I'd rather it was out there for any given individual member of the public's consumption, if it catalyzes some tumult or another or not, I don't give a damn. It's merely the candid, correct thing to have it out there for any individual member of the public access at any time. I don't wish for some newspaper to publish their financiers on their frontpage or some absurd thing like that. All I request is a manner of well-publicized documentation of what media outlets are what money from where/who, and wht are they receiving it in exchange for. Like how corporate and other tax returns are published. The subtler facets you propose as dignifying further consideration are even more reasons to ensure public, easy access knowledge of such things. So that we may assess the nature and extent of its influences and make logical analyses and ascertain what we wish to thereof. It does in fact provide us with something of a structural conundrum, as a felon who rapes or murders is obviously unlikely to of his own volition disclose his wrongs to the public at large. But the catch lies in that you're making it sound easier than it actually is to access this information. Sure, it's by all technicality avaliable if someone makes the effort to go into the larger media apparatus and observe and report what he sees there. But as you mention in your final point, this is not accessibility to the point where any random, individual public observer can simply Google it and discover who lets who say what for what price. Until recently the public wasn't so easily privy to the fact that organizations like CBS were given the exact phrases they were allowed to use in describing the DNC by the DNC as just one example. Lastly, whether they can justify all this to thmeselves with their own ethical logic is immaterial. If a killer can justify carving the head off someone, or a liar can justify withholding the truth for their own selfish purposes, then I care not if they can justify being paid to report only what a political party wants them to by said political party to themselves. Anyway, that's simply my two cents on it, take what you will from it, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.
 
@Einherjar86

You've said on multiple occasions and with more recent frequency you think the Constitution needs reworking. I don't necessarily disagree but at the same time I'm not sure how it could be clearly/certainly improved. Do you have particular areas you think need scrapping? Does the entire thing need to be more or less scrapped for a new construct? Or do you think changes needed are more on the level of "tweaks"?
 
to get rid of birthright citizenship for children of illegals is one no-brainer.
 
Term limits on Congress members, or, hell, even Supreme Court Justices would be nice. The Supreme Court also needs some further constitutional regulation as well, being that they seem to be operating as a legislative body in some cases rather than the judicial one they are, or rather are supposed to be.
 
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Term limits on Congress members, or, hell, even Supreme Court Justices would be nice. The Supreme Court also needs some further constitutional regulation as well, being that they seem to be operating as a legislative body in some cases rather than the judicial one they are, or rather are supposed to be.

Yeah the SC is way out of hand. At this point it matters much less what laws are passed versus how they are interpreted.
 
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Yeah the SC is way out of hand. At this point it matters much less what laws are passed versus how they are interpreted.
Essentially, yes. I'm pro gay marriage, but the way it was "ratified" by the SC is unconstitutional and absolute bullshit. Government should be out of marriage altogether. The tax breaks are their because it's assumed children will be reared, but they're pointless anyhow because the IRS taxes you half to death on so many other things once you're qualified as a nuclear household. Meaning, the government has practical or higher purpose, and just needs to go fuck themselves and go away in that respect. The Constitution just gives them far too much power in general.
 
How is it unconstitutional for agents of the government to make a decision about equal rights at a federal level when they are specifically endowed to do so? I'm not sure how that even makes sense.
 
How is it unconstitutional for agents of the government to make a decision about equal rights at a federal level when they are specifically endowed to do so? I'm not sure how that even makes sense.
First, marriage is not a right. For anyone. Secondly, the decision the Supreme Court made concerning gay marriage was legislative. They are a judicial body, thus it is beyond their jurisdiction to make such decisions. Even as agents of the federal government.
 
Actually, it is within the right of the Supreme Court to make rulings on cases that are tossed up to their jurisdiction, and for their ruling to change the standard of how law is enacted at a federal level. That's literally what happened in this instance.

Also, marriage is definitely considered a right of legal entitlement. If it wasn't, there would be no laws related to who is eligible to marry and what benefits and restrictions are placed on them.
 
Actually, it is within the right of the Supreme Court to make rulings on cases that are tossed up to their jurisdiction, amd for their ruling to change the standard of how law is enacted at a federal level. That's literally what happened in this instance.
It is in their bounds to make rulings on cases presented to them and their jurisdiction, yes. It is also within their bounds to change the precedent of how law is interpreted on federal scale, correct. This means the courts and court circuits throughout America will interpret the law according to their ruling. However, to enact the legalization of gay marriage on a national scale, with no state-by-state or Congressional decisions, is a legislative move. They are bound by the Constitution to be a judicial body, and a judicial body only, and this reaches beyond their purview.