The Political & Philosophy Thread

He would care about the consequences if it had upset his polling figures until recently. If anything it's worked in his favour due to the amount of coverage he received. It's to be expected that his opponents would kick up a fuss - what no one could predict was that the fuss would have so little impact on his support.

Not sure what you mean by Hilary decimating him in the primaries.

Bank on it, she's going to annihilate him. Just wait and see.

You don't think that the republican party/right wing media have known for the last 8 years that she would likely be running for president, and haven't done everything in their power to discredit her? It's impossible to know what would or wouldn't have gotten out, or what would or wouldn't have been seen as significant, if it weren't for the fact that so many people desperately wanted to see her involved in a career ending scandal. To adapt a popular phrase: if a scandal did not exist, it would have been necessary to invent one.

Ridiculous, beyond general fair game politics, the right haven't gone overboard in digging up her skeletons, she threw them at us herself.

It's funny that you sneer at me for being what you see as a by default Trump apologist yet you're doing all these mental gymnastics for her.

It's pathetic.
 
Bank on it, she's going to annihilate him. Just wait and see.

The primaries are the process of nomination at the party level is my point. But yeah, I do hope you're right.

Ridiculous, beyond general fair game politics, the right haven't gone overboard in digging up her skeletons, she threw them at us herself.

It's funny that you sneer at me for being what you see as a by default Trump apologist yet you're doing all these mental gymnastics for her.

It's pathetic.

I find it psychologically significant that just because we disagree you feel I must be sneering at you. As to "menal gymnastics", I don't think my point was really complicated enough to qualify. Whether you feel she "threw" her scandals our way, or that they were carefully manufactured/dug up by her opponents, probably comes down to which news sources you're following. All I'm saying is that if she hadn't thrown them our way, it follows that there would be a lot of people very eager to make it look as if she did. Had Trump declared 8 years ago, you could apply exactly the same argument to the left wing media.
 
The fact that Hillary is running for president has definitely contributed to the shitstorm of political controversy that she's had to deal with. There was an email scandal involving the Bush White House in 2007, but nobody really cared back then - because he wasn't running for a third term.

Political campaigns always result in outrageous malformations, amplifications and augmentations by the media from both sides (i.e. left and right). These representations that we're seeing of Hillary's trespasses in the media are by no means "accurate." They're being inflated or deflated, depending from which angle you approach the issue.
 
Hillary's email leaks were investigated by the FBI and resulted in the country being told that basically, if she was anybody other than a major party candidate for president, she'd have a case pursued against her.

I don't really see how that fits into your description of 'team a vs team b' political games, biases and attacks.
 
Karl Rove's email controversy was investigated as well, but it wasn't as widely reported (and he suffered no consequences, if I recall correctly). The investigation itself isn't really where the attention lies, it's in the media's choice to cover it.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody here is saying that Hillary wouldn't be investigated had she not run for president; we're saying that the investigation wouldn't be the center of a media frenzy, and that it wouldn't attract the degree of pejorative media analysis that it has.
 
I've seen practically no pejorative coverage from the non-Fox outlets. In fact most of the coverage has been all

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If we're talking cable television news stations, then you're correct - but FOX is huge, and amasses an incredible viewership. I don't really see much disparity between the FOX and non-FOX crowds, although I suppose the non-FOX crowd is slightly larger. It basically breaks down on ideological lines, so you're right that CNN et al don't adopt the same condemnatory language that FOX does. But CNN does still cover the controversy widely, which of course can be as harmful as its rhetorical treatment of the story.

Aside from cable news networks, there are plenty of online news sources that address the issue, either pejoratively or sympathetically, and plenty of people are probably only viewing the issue through these respective lenses, according to their Facebook feeds. The coverage itself, whether on television or online, or in good old-fashioned newspapers, far exceeds the coverage from 2007.
 
Yeah Fox is kind of the only game in town as it were for the Republican side, so they probably do have a larger viewership than any single other cable news platform. There's a larger commercial liberal base, (or at least a larger base of media/journalism majors in television) in addition to varying degrees of "purity" that influences the wider variety of major center-left cable/major news outlets. Even online, for every Breitbart (Really who else is other than Breitbart? The aggregator Drudge Report?) there are a dozen Gawkers. I would imagine that the amount of right and alt-right blogs and leftist blogs is probably equivalent, but who has time to really count those all up?
 
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Cherry-pick much, pal? There's conservative media out there too, and it's at least as bad as liberal media. The fact that we live in a world of media bubbles doesn't make a politician better or worse.
 
Good point, though I would add that ultimately (aside from NPR) you're talking about corporations, and the political leanings of corporations overall span the political spectrum if you factor in non-media industries. The legality of corporate political speech has been famously sanctioned by Citizens United v. FEC, which notably was decided by a conservative-leaning court.

At the risk of sounding like a sellout, I'd argue that there's merit to the political role of corporations, especially compared to those of the general public, since corporations are overwhelmingly macroeconomically rational, and the general public is overwhelmingly not.

In principle, though, I believe the First Amendment should be modified to reduce the influence of money in elections (which, I hope, would make it less likely for wealthy elites like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton to dominate the Presidential races).
 
At the risk of sounding like a sellout, I'd argue that there's merit to the political role of corporations, especially compared to those of the general public, since corporations are overwhelmingly macroeconomically rational, and the general public is overwhelmingly not.

Well said.

Very much true, but ultimately immaterial to my point, which is about the corporate media and major media (given larger but ultimately non-corporate media outlets like NPR are part of what I'm getting at too), not corporate entities at large. And I'm not saying it's any sort of illegal act they're committing by having a general bias, but it is verifiably corrupt, duplicitous, and, at times, outright malicious the way they handle it. Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but making the majority of big media beholden to one political bias over another en masse, and doing so via private, behind closed doors collusion? I'm almost certain that qualifies as rigging an election, which I know for a fact is not only repugnant and detestable, but illegal. In other words, creating a nigh monopoly on public media opinion with closed doors payouts and other under the table deals? Is something of an electoral fraud, and something I refuse to stand for. Personally I don't feel corporate money in politics (as vociferously as I may loathe it) should be made illegal by an abridgement to our first amendment. Rather, make all money in politics mandatorily transparent in its exchange, reception, recipients, etc. with the proper legislative measures, thusly informing the people of who's getting what, how much are they getting, who are they getting it from, and what does that all entail.

There's a lot going on in this comment.

First, while "corrupt" and "illegal" don't necessarily mean the same thing, much that we identify as corrupt is also illegal. If we are making a clear legislative distinction between the two, then it seems to me that "corrupt" is more of an ethical (if not moral) judgment rather than any kind of definitive identification of deplorable action.

Intentionally reporting false information is certainly a reprehensible act, but most media platforms can get around this by claiming that a) they didn't know they were reporting false information, or b) reporting information that is vague enough so as to avoid accusation. Incorporating bias into news reports isn't illegal, nor is it avoidable. Reporting will always be biased, and most journalists do happen to lean left. Simply providing information in a skewed manner isn't rigging an election, nor is it electoral fraud. Whether or not you'll stand for it won't really make much difference, because it's simply the cost of circulating information at an immensely complex scale. Unless you want to go do all your own investigative journalism, we don't really have much choice. It sounds as though you don't buy into most of what you read/hear on "liberal" sites anyway, so... it's not as though you're being misinformed (from your perspective, anyway ;)).

Regarding transparency in monetary exchanges, would it really make much difference? Those who already suspect such transactions aren't buying what major media is selling, and those who don't probably won't/don't care all that much. If big money is financing political interests that you happen to find ethically valuable and worth pursuing, then why oppose such financing? Obviously, there are subtleties to this that should be acknowledged and considered (e.g. the slippery slope that such corporate collusion entails, whether political interests are central to such transactions or merely tangential, the role of democratic processes alongside such collusion, etc.); but it strikes me that, upon its immediate exposure, such collusion won't inspire widespread revolution or resistance on the part of individuals.

And finally, this kind of collusion is mostly transparent already - it simply isn't widely reported, which obviously creates a bit of a structural conundrum. That is, this kind of collusion/corruption is exposed by journalists who simply make an effort to look more closely at the money trails. The information is all there, it's just a matter of who wants to look for it. Now, if media platforms are the ones benefiting from the financing, then they obviously aren't going to report on the financing. As far as reporting financial agreements, or making them public, this doesn't amount to publishing them on the front page of local newspapers - it simply means making them available for the public if the public chooses to look them up.

In whose interest would it be to mandate that media platforms post, on their front pages or their websites, what monies are changing hands? The most obvious answer is "the public"; but this would have to be mandated by the same political institutions who, according to the present discussion, are already channeling funds into those media platforms for the purposes of manipulating coverage. Seeing as these political institutions must, at some point or other within their own internal ethical logic (which they do have - even Hitler had an ethics), rationalize their actions as beneficial to the public in some regard, we face a structural contradiction regarding communication between state and private institutions, and the general public.

As far as I'm concerned, the information that the public needs is already available, either directly or indirectly. It has less to do with some kind of Orwellian purity of language/communication, and more to do with an inquiry into the structural relations that govern informational transmission.

tl;dr - absolute informational transparency already exists, just not for an individual human observer.
 
@Einherjar86

You've said on multiple occasions and with more recent frequency you think the Constitution needs reworking. I don't necessarily disagree but at the same time I'm not sure how it could be clearly/certainly improved. Do you have particular areas you think need scrapping? Does the entire thing need to be more or less scrapped for a new construct? Or do you think changes needed are more on the level of "tweaks"?
 
to get rid of birthright citizenship for children of illegals is one no-brainer.