The Political & Philosophy Thread

[rms]

She just gets straight triggered (31:20 if you don't click the link into a new page)

What's the difference between a female working class voter and a male one? Abortion rights? I don't get how non-white-cis-het-binary-males are soooo different from everyone else that the system is just about them

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Trump got more of the college educated white vote didn't he?

Yes, but not nearly as much as the 2012 Republican candidate did, and the uneducated white vote for Trump was far higher than for past Republican candidates.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...s-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

What you're saying is a massive oversimplification anyway. Not all the discoveries made in the scientific world lead to new ideas in politics and the reason I bring this up is the increasing knowledge about how big a deal things like heredity and genetics are. There are no visible political movements born out of the new knowledge about these things, but they are highly relevant to both immigration policy and class mobility.

Of course it was an oversimplification. I only wanted to make one observation about the article Dak posted, not write an essay on it. I know there was more at stake in this election than race, but racism was clearly a distinguishing factor among Trump supporters:
http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-ELECTION-RACE/010020H7174/USA-ELECTION-RACE.jpg

And I don't see where you're going with the point about heredity and genetics. I'm well aware that racism is inherent in our biology, but that doesn't mean it should dictate our politics.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I have a quick question for Americans. When you say 'the left' what exactly do you mean? I get its use when you're talking solely about American politics, but people often bring other countries and regions into their 'arguments' and, as a Western European, hearing the Democrats (especially Democrats like Hillary) called 'the left' when they're more closely aligned with center-right parties over here always seems weird.

If you just use it as a pejorative because you're an unimaginative cunt that can't see that they're acting just like the 'SJWs' they moan about then fuck off.

In the US, 'the left' is the Democratic Party, and whatever ideology the Democratic Party accepts. 'Left' and 'right' change over time in the US, because fundamentally they are ideological boxes designed to support the two-party system.

 

[arg]

I'm sick of the hate for "uneducated whites". College-educated lefties are stupider than them ideologically.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I don't know, believing a guy who says he's going to "bring back manufacturing jobs" when most of them have been automated is pretty fucking dumb.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

It's absurd for avoiding being racist to be the main motivating factor in this kind of research

Um... I said racism shouldn't dictate our *politics*, not our scientific research.

Suggesting that the most important thing is to critique the basis on which a comparison between groups could be made seems fallacious, because all you can do, is think with your brain.

Hm, I wonder what other crazy sentences end with "because all you can do is think with your brain." Here's a few that come to mind:

• "Murderers can't be expected not to murder, because the drive to murder people is how their brain works, and all you can do is think with your brain."
• "Hitler was right to kill 6 million people, because he thought they were inferior, and all you can do is think with your brain."
• "It really sucks that a hacker got hold of the nuclear launch codes and decided to end humanity, but hey, he thought humanity was useless, and all you can do is think with your brain."

 

[zabu of nΩd]

What do you expect humanity to achieve by a "pure quest for knowledge" about the physical and neurological differences between people? Yes, it's important for scientists to study those things, but you seem to be arguing that these differences could be a justification for some sort of caste system in which people are given different political rights based on their physical attributes. I don't see you placing any value on self-esteem or dignity. Those things have a huge impact on people's happiness and ability to realize their potential, regardless of how you "rank" their physical attributes. Why do you disregard them?

You also seem to imply that physical attributes have some kind of supreme existential value that supersedes other values like diversity or tolerance. What justification do you have to assign such value? Why can't I equally claim that the extinction of humanity would add value to the universe? I prefer a value system in which all people have a stake, not just the most physically superior.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't know, believing a guy who says he's going to "bring back manufacturing jobs" when most of them have been automated is pretty fucking dumb.

About as dumb as the black people that think Hillary banning assault rifles is going to do anything to gun violence crime rates.

 

[Baroque]

TBH a lot of trump's 100 day plan is not that bad, the one that affects me the most is the freeze on all government hiring. I was shooting for a government research job. It may still be possible but I'll have to go for something in the DoD or such. Also what does this mean for NASA ? I suspect trump is one of those that sees it as a waste of money and at least the climate science wing where I worked is likely in jeopardy.

I still disagree with the electoral college.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Of course it was an oversimplification. I only wanted to make one observation about the article Dak posted, not write an essay on it. I know there was more at stake in this election than race, but racism was clearly a distinguishing factor among Trump supporters:
http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/USA-ELECTION-RACE/010020H7174/USA-ELECTION-RACE.jpg

And I don't see where you're going with the point about heredity and genetics. I'm well aware that racism is inherent in our biology, but that doesn't mean it should dictate our politics.

Oh, and black people are more violent and criminal than non-black people in America. The ~2% of black men aged 16-34 in our total population commit roughly a third of all murder in the United States. All that chart tells me is that Trump supporters are either better-informed on our national crime statistics or less afraid to say politically incorrect truths.

 

[Baroque]

Also it's shitty that he went soft on Obamacare, I was hoping he would repeal it.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Oh, and black people are more violent and criminal than non-black people in America. The ~2% of black men aged 16-34 in our total population commit roughly a third of all murder in the United States. All that chart tells me is that Trump supporters are either better-informed on our national crime statistics or less afraid to say politically incorrect truths.

So what about the part of the charts where Trump supporters think black people are less intelligent, lazier, and more rude?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So what about the part of the charts where Trump supporters think black people are less intelligent, lazier, and more rude?

Dunno. Bad personal experiences? Use of racial statistics in other matters? Let's say they are more racist for the sake of the argument. How do you definitively link that to the election results? Presumably, most of the people that voted for Cruz and Kasich (also in your poll) in the primaries still voted for Trump in the end. Less white people as a percent of the voting populating went Trump than went Romney in 2012. Most of the numbers indicate that Clinton lost because Democratic turnout was incredibly low; the total amount of people voting for Trump did not change significantly. For example, in the surprise swing of Wisconsin, only 2000 more people voted for Trump than Romney. It was Clinton losing hundreds of thousands that cost her.

 

[SentinelSlain]

What do you expect humanity to achieve by a "pure quest for knowledge" about the physical and neurological differences between people? Yes, it's important for scientists to study those things, but you seem to be arguing that these differences could be a justification for some sort of caste system in which people are given different political rights based on their physical attributes. I don't see you placing any value on self-esteem or dignity. Those things have a huge impact on people's happiness and ability to realize their potential, regardless of how you "rank" their physical attributes. Why do you disregard them?

You also seem to imply that physical attributes have some kind of supreme existential value that supersedes other values like diversity or tolerance. What justification do you have to assign such value? Why can't I equally claim that the extinction of humanity would add value to the universe? I prefer a value system in which all people have a stake, not just the most physically superior.

Well a de-facto caste system seems to exist anyway. I do understand some of the more well reasoned concern about racism on the part of employers and so on, I suppose and the idea of a kind of trickle down legitimization that might come from research. However, I still don't see it as being more important than understanding humankind more accurately and it isn't inherent that doing so would harm people.

Surely it isn't that hard to see why someone would see things like intelligence and neurological differences between people as being of such paramount importance? It's a bit like chickens and eggs isn't it. The brain comes before the thought, as far as I'm aware anyway, so you shouldn't think that studying the brain, almost whatever the context is wrong and feel that you have any legitimacy in doing so.

 

[CiG]

Who really gives a shit about the crowd Trump attracted to win, his voting block can't save him 4 years from now when the DNC put up a candidate that isn't a total scumbag corporate whore piece of shit anyway.

Hillary lost much more than Trump won if you consider the fact that 7 million Obama supporters didn't vote for her.

 

[Dak]

So what about the part of the charts where Trump supporters think black people are less intelligent, lazier, and more rude?

Maybe it's based on IQ, jobless numbers, and YouTube videos.

I'm curious as to why it's proof of ignorance of the choice and/or choosers that whites without college degrees voted Trump - but the same doesn't hold true and/or isn't mentioned in regards to an equivalent percentage of non-college educated blacks voting for Clinton.

 

[rms]

I still disagree with the electoral college.

are you for balanced population #'s for rep's or just populated States will now entirely control the nation?

 

[arg]

so we have the coastal states, the most densely populated, the most immigrants legal and illegal, they mostly think the same (liberal circlejerkers)

and you want them to elect the president who will pass laws that cater to them and screw everyone else? fuck that.

the founding fathers were actually geniuses in implementing the electoral college to prevent the tyranny of the majority. wow.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

The electoral college was actually designed for a very different reason than you think, and that reason is no longer relevant at all.

 

[arg]

what's that?

so we have the coastal states, the most densely populated, the most immigrants legal and illegal, they mostly think the same (liberal circlejerkers)

and you want them to elect the president who will pass laws that cater to them and screw everyone else? fuck that.

the founding fathers were actually geniuses in implementing the electoral college to prevent the tyranny of the majority. wow.

as a side note the above post was #420 in this thread. lawl