The Political & Philosophy Thread

[Matt]

Wow. I'm talking about the last two/three of my posts that you seemed to throw yourself at, genius.

That snake always treis to make shit personal, as was evident from his post

Nothing personal, just my personal opinion about you tbh. Go ahead, destroy his argument please.

 

[Dak]

What's the dakrynian definition of a conservative then?

Someone who isn't a liberal in any sense of the word, in terms of political philosophy. "Conservatives" in the US aren't even decent classical liberals, they are just people who suck at being up to speed with the current progressives. You just have to give em a 20 year handicap.

 

[CiG]

So I'll start with something I've been recently thinking about.

Feminists.

Are men just bitter jerks about it?

Have women been taking it too far?

Should we dump 'Feminism' and start over as "Equalist"?

Is equally the best and justified way or should things like salary be an individual thing?

There are quite a lot of male feminists/males that support it at a distance. It's very unfashionable to be a man and criticise feminism.

"Women" as a monolith do not represent feminism and how far it's been taken, this is supported by polls demonstrating how small a percentage of women self-identify as feminists. Are feminists taking it too far regardless of their gender? I think so. Modern feminism is a bad joke that doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon.

You lost me on the salary part.

getting smashed right now doesnt mean they're over with

ISIS is using kids to do suicide bombings cause they dont have as many as they used to, but 'getting rid' of them isnt going to be easy

we couldnt get rid of the Taliban, and ISIS is somehow doomed?

IS are now using potential recruits before they even reach adulthood? Gee, I wonder how they'll continue to exist in a few generations if they keep it up. Magic?

 

[End of Glory]

You lost me on the salary part.

Don't know how it's in Australia but here in Sweden, men are usually paid more than women which feminists around here find discriminating. Now in later days we've reached a pretty even salary but I think people should be paid after individual efforts and what they're capable to do. For example, back when I was in school I worked in a workshop and repaired cars during summer. We also had women who worked there and usually we men had to help them doing the heavy work. So there's my point, should there be equal salaries or should we have individual salaries? Women are better than men in some jobs and men are better than women in some jobs so we should get paid depending on our performance and efficiency.

 

[Dak]

The wage gap is a myth created by really poor data presentation. Furthermore, as you alluded to, many sexually "diversified" jobs involve women getting paid the same to need a man's assistance for what should be basic job functions.

Fortunately leftism is correcting this by creating weakass males as well. Soon we will all need robotic assistance to pick up our groceries.

 

[CiG]

Don't know how it's in Australia but here in Sweden, men are usually paid more than women which feminists around here find discriminating. Now in later days we've reached a pretty even salary but I think people should be paid after individual efforts and what they're capable to do. For example, back when I was in school I worked in a workshop and repaired cars during summer. We also had women who worked there and usually we men had to help them doing the heavy work. So there's my point, should there be equal salaries or should we have individual salaries? Women are better than men in some jobs and men are better than women in some jobs so we should get paid depending on our performance and efficiency.

Wage discrimination is illegal. Wages =/= earnings. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.

 

[End of Glory]

The wage gap is a myth created by really poor data presentation. Furthermore, as you alluded to, many sexually "diversified" jobs involve women getting paid the same to need a man's assistance for what should be basic job functions.

Fortunately leftism is correcting this by creating weakass males as well. Soon we will all need robotic assistance to pick up our groceries.

Let's take me and my girl for example. Currently we're working on the same job (different sections though). She has about half a year more experience than me and are making 20000 SKR a month + a bit more in addition for working weekends, nights and holidays. Me I'm making 23000 SKR with the same addition for the same cause. She's been working there longer than me but I'm making more because of poor data presentation? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, this just got me curious.

 

[CiG]

Firstly, "different sections" please be more specific.

Are you two the same age?
Have you personally asked for raises?
Who takes more time off between you two?
Are you parents?
Has she worked there consistently without taking any extended periods of time off (eg injury, pregnancy, health issues, emergency, parenting etc)?

 

[End of Glory]

Firstly, "different sections" please be more specific.

Are you two the same age?
Have you personally asked for raises?
Who takes more time off between you two?
Are you parents?
Has she worked there consistently without taking any extended periods of time off (eg injury, pregnancy, health issues, emergency, parenting etc)?

We're are working on a psychiatri that criminals have been sentenced to. We have 6 different sections and each section is for what stage the patient's at.

I'm one year older than her.
No I've not asked for a raise, that was what they offered right away and I took it.
We work pretty much the same. There's been a lot of problems last months in the section I'm working but it doesn't affect the salary except I got extra money for working overtime.
No, we're not parents and haven't plan to be in the near future.
And yes, she's been working consistently.

 

[rms]

http://www.theonion.com/article/cost-cutting-measures-force-company-to-start-hirin-38334

 

[EternalMetal]

@End of Glory - Maybe there is a possibility that they just so happened to raise the starting salary of said position after your girlfriend was hired? Or since because they are different sections, they have different budgets and the one you were hired in luckily pays more? Im guessing neither of you negotiated wage, so a third option may just be that she is paid less because she is female.

http://www.theonion.com/article/cost-cutting-measures-force-company-to-start-hirin-38334

Hmm, they seem to not broach the subject about the idea that they are hiring female employees because they will start them out at lower wages, but it seems pretty heavily implied.

Don't know how it's in Australia but here in Sweden, men are usually paid more than women which feminists around here find discriminating. Now in later days we've reached a pretty even salary but I think people should be paid after individual efforts and what they're capable to do. For example, back when I was in school I worked in a workshop and repaired cars during summer. We also had women who worked there and usually we men had to help them doing the heavy work. So there's my point, should there be equal salaries or should we have individual salaries?

If someone needs assistance with a necessary part of the job description, then I personally dont think it would be unethical for them to get less money. If I were working for a farmer baling hay and I could carry two at a time, while there was somebody else that could only carry one, my increased productivity should be reflected in my wages. As biased as this makes me sound, I think that when looking at the entirety of the job market, men have an advantage because of their physical strength. I dont believe that women are any more intelligent than men, so the mental category remains the same. Plus there is always the risk of women of childbearing age taking time off of work because of obvious reasons. Men are incapable of giving birth or caring for infants (unless they are solely bottlefed, which is a mistake). If I were an employer, especially of jobs with a physical aspect to them, I would take all of this in mind when hiring and adjusting wages for new hires.

I also know that most jobs upon hiring are negotiable with regards to salary and wages. My second job back in high school was working as a stocking clerk/cashier at the CVS drug store, and when asked about what I wanted to get paid, I told them $9 an hour. After a while of working there, I felt comfortable enough with my co-workers to discuss wages. It turns out that I was making more than the ones I discussed it with, who were getting $7.50 and $8 an hour. Coincidentally enough, it was the female co-worker that was making the least. I did help in the stocking room with picking up heavy boxes and re-organizing (im well-built), but I dont think that was the reason why I was hired at a higher wage.

 

[Dak]

Btw my statement about the wage gap was specifically in reference to the US. I haven't looked at other countries. But of course you could find a pay disparity here or there, but the wage gap is talking about systemic under paying of women when all else is equal, although those 78 cents to the dollar figures are pulled from general aggregates that don't take field, experience etc into account.

 

[End of Glory]

@End of Glory - Maybe there is a possibility that they just so happened to raise the starting salary of said position after your girlfriend was hired? Or since because they are different sections, they have different budgets and the one you were hired in luckily pays more? Im guessing neither of you negotiated wage, so a third option may just be that she is paid less because she is female.

Starting salary has been 19000 a couple of years now and will be 20000 next year so it has no effect on us.
We have different sections but it's basically to make it easier/better for the patients and staff. We have one section for patients with autism, Asperger's syndrome and similar prognosis. The rest of the sections is for newly arrived, those who fight a lot and are hard to handle, those who most probably never be healthy again, those who soon will be signed out and lastly those who have been there a while but can't handle themselves. So as I said we have different sections but we are still one unit, so we who work there can choose what we prefer and feel most comfortable to work with but there's no different salaries in any section, not even the one where they fight a lot and are hard to handle.

 

[End of Glory]

Btw my statement about the wage gap was specifically in reference to the US. I haven't looked at other countries. But of course you could find a pay disparity here or there, but the wage gap is talking about systemic under paying of women when all else is equal, although those 78 cents to the dollar figures are pulled from general aggregates that don't take field, experience' etc into account.

I guess it's more of a problem here in Sweden then.

 

[Trodden]

IS are now using potential recruits before they even reach adulthood? Gee, I wonder how they'll continue to exist in a few generations if they keep it up. Magic?

families are giving and even selling their kids to ISIS

as long as they keep having kids in the area, and view ISIS as a force for holy war, there will be more and more of them

 

[Matt]

Wage discrimination is illegal. Wages =/= earnings. Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.

In 2013 the median weekly income of full-time workers was $860 for men, compared to $706 for women. The female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.82, slightly higher than the 2010 ratio.[2] The female-to-male earnings ratio of 0.82 means that, in 2013, the average female FTYR worker earned 18% less than the average male FTYR worker. The statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work. Some portion of the wage gap is attributed by some to gender discrimination in the US[3]

http://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_c...f-8232fe70a45c/compendium---sans-appendix.pdf

So unless all men in the workforce are somehow better trained, in better jobs, work longer hours, and are more educated, shouldn't the numbers be exactly the same?

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Probably because women generally don't ask for raises. I don't think it can be debated against that most women are definitely more passive than men.

 

[rms]

So unless all men in the workforce are somehow better trained, in better jobs, work longer hours, and are more educated, shouldn't the numbers be exactly the same?

Do you even read your own citation?

In 2013 the median weekly income of full-time workers was $860 for men, compared to $706 for women. The female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.82, slightly higher than the 2010 ratio.[2] The female-to-male earnings ratio of 0.82 means that, in 2013, the average female FTYR worker earned 18% less than the average male FTYR worker. The statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work. Some portion of the wage gap is attributed by some to gender discrimination in the US[3]

 

[Dak]

So unless all men in the workforce are somehow better trained, in better jobs, work longer hours, and are more educated, shouldn't the numbers be exactly the same?

Men do group into better paying fields and work longer hours. Also, although women now earn the majority of college degrees, men earn the majority of degrees with higher earning potential. Social studies and Feminist Theory don't pay very well. STEM fields and finance do.

 

[CiG]

I guess it's more of a problem here in Sweden then.

Somehow I doubt it. Arguably the most feminist place in the world.
I'd tell your partner to make an official complaint about her income, the fact that she hasn't (has she?) is another factor creating income inequality in many workplaces. Many women won't speak up.

So unless all men in the workforce are somehow better trained, in better jobs, work longer hours, and are more educated, shouldn't the numbers be exactly the same?

I'm at work so I haven't opened that link but does it factor in married, unmarried, childless, and with child(ren)?
Men generally do work longer hours, though women tend to be better educated if I remember correctly but at the same time how much of that education goes towards highly lucrative employment compared with men?