The Political & Philosophy Thread

[rms]

Finally, it strikes me as somewhat hypocritical to alleviate unemployed whites of the responsibility for being unemployed and turning to black markets for meth and oxycodone when we demonize blacks who are unable to get work for turning to gang culture.

this seems really out of place in this discussion?

Whose fault is that? Not illegal immigrants, but employers who choose to employ them.

of course, but without creating a secret-labor-police, how does one legitimately control employers from hiring illegal aliens/cash-paid-labor?

I think we have to be honest in saying the country wants immigrants simply for the economy while the left changes the issue into a humanitarian one.

 

[CiG]

(Overstaying visas is also an issue, in pretty much all countries.)

 

[arg]

(Overstaying visas is also an issue, in pretty much all countries.)

Absolutely, and e-verify (meaning no job), and no welfare will make them self-deport.

Have a stronger border and tougher visa requirements so they can't get back in.

Won't need a huge deportation force. Taxpayer cost would be a bus ticket.

 

[arg]

demolished

 

[J.]

ugh, I am so tired of "we are a nation of immigrants" and "its the humane thing to do". fuck all that noise.

basically what i got from that is that we are safer because we bring refugees over here, give them a house and food in hopes they wont become radicalized, while american citizens foot the bill. seriously, that all these bleeding hearts have?

the guy couldnt answer one simple question: what do Americans get out of this other than a warm fuzzy?

 

[J.]

He's trying to update it in ways that go against the basic principles of democracy and our constitution.

Our constitution does not protect illegal aliens.

 

[rms]

Our constitution does not protect illegal aliens.

this is wrong. anyone on American soil is protected by the constitution

 

[Baroque]

ugh, I am so tired of "we are a nation of immigrants" and "its the humane thing to do". fuck all that noise.

basically what i got from that is that we are safer because we bring refugees over here, give them a house and food in hopes they wont become radicalized, while american citizens foot the bill. seriously, that all these bleeding hearts have?

the guy couldnt answer one simple question: what do Americans get out of this other than a warm fuzzy?

What does anyone get out of anything?

What do you want a gold star for helping someone?

 

[Dak]

this is wrong. anyone on American soil is protected by the constitution

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...o_noncitizens_have_constitutional_rights.html

True, the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even illegal immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the criminal code has the right to due process, a speedy and public trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments..................But immigration proceedings are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would be unacceptable if applied to citizens.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Our constitution does not protect illegal aliens.

1. What RMS said.

2. Banning Muslims immigrants while letting Christians in is a religious discrimination, plain and simple. It absolutely violates the spirit of the USA, a nation built on the premise of religious freedom, and might violate the first amendment.

 

[J.]

The constitution guarantees they get due process if they commit a crime. But we all know illegals are upstanding people.....

If you are illegal, yet law abiding, you get no guarantees except deportation if our govt would do its job

 

[J.]

What does anyone get out of anything?

What do you want a gold star for helping someone?

No. I want someone to answer the question

 

[J.]

1. What RMS said.

2. Banning Muslims immigrants while letting Christians in is a religious discrimination, plain and simple. It absolutely violates the spirit of the USA, a nation built on the premise of religious freedom, and might violate the first amendment.

How? The refugees arent on american soil, so how does it violate their rights? Besides, its a ban on certain countries, not religion.

The words were that Christians from those countries will basically be vetted less strigently.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

How? The refugees arent on american soil, so how does it violate their rights? Besides, its a ban on certain countries, not religion.

The words were that Christians from those countries will basically be vetted less strigently.

Put 2+2 together. It's a Muslim ban in all but name. Trump chose seven Muslim-majority countries and then put in a stipulation to move Christians to the front of the line. The prioritization of Christians, which Trump himself made clear, is fundamentally un-American and illegal, based on the 1965 Immigration law referenced earlier.

 

[arg]

The President has the authority to ban people from any geographical location he wants. We follow the letter of law in America, not the lefty interpretation of it.

 

[arg]

Refugees are on the other side of the ocean. They can't come here unless we actively put them on planes and bring them here. Let's just stop doing that. There's no enforceable law against doing nothing.

 

[J.]

Arg beat me to it.

The "spirit of america", "thats not who we are", "unamerican", etc. Blah blah. Its funny people throw those statements around when we are talking about non americans. Its time we focus on Americans first, regardless of color or religion.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

What does anyone get out of anything?

What do you want a gold star for helping someone?

I'm all for bring in the smart/educated immigrants from anywhere in the world. That keeps our country growing with new talent and tax-paying individuals. Most refugees of war have negative value.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Arg beat me to it.

The "spirit of america", "thats not who we are", "unamerican", etc. Blah blah. Its funny people throw those statements around when we are talking about non americans. Its time we focus on Americans first, regardless of color or religion.

Pull your head out of your ass. This isn't focusing on "America first regardless of color and religion." This is threatening to tear apart mixed status families and dismantle economies and communities dependent on immigrants.

News flash: if you deport thousands or millions of people, you take jobs away with them. Less cosumers equals a smaller market and therefore, less jobs. That is a direct threat to cities and regions around the country. Learn to think rather than swallowing whatever propaganda you're fed.

 

[Baroque]

No. I want someone to answer the question

The answer is you get nothing. But on a larger scale you get nothing for anything. What do you want something materialistic? Money to buy something materialistic? None of that matters, eventually you will die and lose it all. You get nothing but the satisfaction of being a good human being that helps others.