rms
Active Member
let alone the fact that US prosperity is largely based on interest and we funded every damn country after hahaha
The Political & Philosophy Thread
- Thread starter End of Glory
- Start date
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Tucker is way overrated. Watch his debate with Mark Cubin, he's actually a bit of a retard.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
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The struggling average American is largely a myth regardless. If you cherry-pick the very best year of median income in America in all of our history (which seems like an unrealistic standard for any metric), and factor in benefits (e.g. those paid for with payroll taxes or by employers), we only make about 10% less than we used to, meanwhile much of the developing world has seen its income increase by an order of magnitude over the same time period. Americans are only struggling if you believe we have a birthright to all the best jobs and external competition should fuck off.
Dak
mentat
EspaDa
Damage Case
Franz Kafka - 'Life is merely terrible; I doubt I'm a human being'.
Draehl
Lurker
Just went on an un-following spree on Facebook. The hordes of frothing at the mouth liberals and conservatives is getting tiresome. Not that either view is specifically wrong, but these idiots lap up whatever (actual) fake news they see people post without even considering the truth of it. I just had to tell my great uncle how full of shit he was for posting some 'Sharia Law' sign that was blatantly photoshopped from a church sign only to have one of his bitch friends tell me it didn't matter if it was true or it, it's the sentiment that matters....? WHAT?!? Truth doesn't matter? Truth is far more important than either of the ideologies combined. If all these folks would unite a fraction of their willpower behind a simple transparency/anti-corruption banner regardless the political spectrum the country would be in a significantly better place. Morons.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
- 14,620
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So I'm thinking about voting Republican this year, for the first time ever. I fear the budget deficit is leading the US (and maybe the world) toward a catastrophe far worse than 2008, and while neither party is particularly serious about dealing with it, there seem to be far more Republicans than Democrats with balancing the budget on their agenda:
I feel like this is some kind of "coming out" for me. Most of my friends are pretty far left, and I'm going to lose a lot of respect from those friends by taking this position. I'm not the type to push people away over political disagreements, but I feel a need to speak my mind and at least let people know where I stand.
I'd love for someone to convince me I'm wrong here, and I welcome any left-leaning UMers to try (though I won't reply till tomorrow as it's my bedtime). I want help bullet-proofing a position like this, because I'll inevitably have people in my life calling me out on it over and over for the foreseeable future.
- https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/2
- https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-concurrent-resolution/36
- https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2 (this is the most recent bill to undermine PAYGO as I understand it - very bipartisan, but the nays were almost all Republican)
I feel like this is some kind of "coming out" for me. Most of my friends are pretty far left, and I'm going to lose a lot of respect from those friends by taking this position. I'm not the type to push people away over political disagreements, but I feel a need to speak my mind and at least let people know where I stand.
I'd love for someone to convince me I'm wrong here, and I welcome any left-leaning UMers to try (though I won't reply till tomorrow as it's my bedtime). I want help bullet-proofing a position like this, because I'll inevitably have people in my life calling me out on it over and over for the foreseeable future.
HamburgerBoy
Active Member
- Sep 16, 2007
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Of all the reasons to vote Republican, that's the worst. Republicans grew the budget by almost 20% in 2017 over 2016. Full Republican control is what led to the extreme spending under W as well. They propose balanced budget bills all the time but they never pass them. The few Republicans that genuinely do support cutting spending are marginalized libertarians-light, e.g. Rand Paul. The 90s were so nice in part because Clinton and Gingrich kept cock-blocking each other.
Funny thing is that I voted for Johnson in a blue state in 2016 and wished Clinton won when Republicans took back Congress as well, for similar concerns, but at this point I believe one of two possibilities are real. One, deficit spending truly doesn't matter and the Keynesians and neoliberals are right about everything and there's no point worrying. Two, we're already long past the point of no return and things are going to get fucked at some indeterminate point in the future and there's no point worrying. As a result I'm going to vote Republican in 2018 and 2020.
Funny thing is that I voted for Johnson in a blue state in 2016 and wished Clinton won when Republicans took back Congress as well, for similar concerns, but at this point I believe one of two possibilities are real. One, deficit spending truly doesn't matter and the Keynesians and neoliberals are right about everything and there's no point worrying. Two, we're already long past the point of no return and things are going to get fucked at some indeterminate point in the future and there's no point worrying. As a result I'm going to vote Republican in 2018 and 2020.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
rms
Active Member
not sure any candidate is going to actually want lower spending for their term(s) so that's just a pipe dream. NYS is doing this weird thing where we are losing tax revenue every year but keep adding more and more spending in social programs while cutting nothing. i don't get it 
viewerfromnihil
Vein-Marbled Tower
Republicans are and always have been all bark when it comes to the deficit. Their base likes it and a few of the Austrian School knuckle-draggers sincerely believe it. But they never follow through with it when they're in power, and, more often than not, they choose to explode the deficit instead. You're better off voting progressive and hoping they find compromise with the moderates, because there are rather simple ways to reduce health care costs in the country and reduce the deficit, and they're things the Republicans would never enact--the most they might do is cut public services and throw the money in the war tank instead at the bank.
I rooted for Republicans to take the Senate in 2014 over the same concerns you're raising here. Look at how that worked out.
I rooted for Republicans to take the Senate in 2014 over the same concerns you're raising here. Look at how that worked out.
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
However will you recover? If they can't respect your political views, they were never really your friends imo.
Welcome to the best side. I've voted Republican in every election except one since I was able to vote.
Pretty much the same here where the Conservatives make a massive noise about the deficit and their being the more fiscally responsible of the two main parties whilst Labour have, over the past 70 odd years, been the more fiscally conservative party. The Conservatives managed to convince enough people with their bullshit, anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
And now both parties are a fucking mess and don't seem to have much of a clue about anything. Huzzah.
Dak
mentat
I'm going to echo the notion that Republicans aren't all that fiscally responsible. It's one of the several reasons I don't bother to vote. However, if I were of a mind to vote, or were to retroactively vote in past elections, it'd most likely be straight ticket Republican, because I don't believe I've ever seen a Democrat with a good platform.
I guess the way to spin that would be at least the Dems don't lie about their tax&spend ways.....
Democrats always want to expand bureaucratic sprawl. Republicans just funnel more money to business and the military. I see the latter as a lesser of two evils.
I guess the way to spin that would be at least the Dems don't lie about their tax&spend ways.....
Democrats always want to expand bureaucratic sprawl. Republicans just funnel more money to business and the military. I see the latter as a lesser of two evils.
Einherjar86
Active Member
As long as Trump's in the White House, there's no way I can see a convincing argument to vote republican. Sorry, that's just my personal opinion. Republicans will bend over backwards to accommodate Trump in order to push their own agendas, which won't yield any clear reduction in deficit spending. And as it stands, the demagoguery and cult of personality that Trump promotes is more dangerous than deficit spending--that's my perspective, I know plenty of people here don't agree. On top of that, Trump himself is doing nothing to curtail deficit spending. He can claim his plan will lower the deficit all he wants, but that doesn't seem to be the consensus coming from the congressional budget office.
I don't see any reason to believe that the republicans will actually lower the deficit, and every reason to believe that they will continue to discriminate against people of color, using strategies that aren't only dangerous but financially draining. Being that I have friends here on visas, including friends who changed wedding plans so that partners could speed up the citizenship application process, and friends of Middle Eastern descent who can no longer visit family members overseas, I'm firmly opposed to supporting republicans simply because they advertise fiscal responsibility; in their next breath, they'll sign off on discriminatory programs that only add more zeroes. Congressional republicans may run on conservative platforms, but it's going to be a fiduciary bloodbath between them and a president whose ego runs higher than any deficit.
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Dak
mentat
I'm interested in this purported overlap between the "financially draining strategies" and the "discriminatory strategies". Increasing the military budget and blocking transpersons is all that is coming to mind, and there isn't any direct connection there.
Dak
mentat
@zabu of nΩd
Here's the rock & hard place you're stuck between as a voter if fiscal prudence is your primary concern. Both articles written by the same economist who has worked for several (R) politicians/campaigns:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/republican-spending-dysfunction-promised-trillions-in-cuts/
However, it looks worse on the Blue side:
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/20...-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes
Two trains heading towards a fiscal cliff. One is just going noticeably slower and at least making a show of hand wringing.
Here's the rock & hard place you're stuck between as a voter if fiscal prudence is your primary concern. Both articles written by the same economist who has worked for several (R) politicians/campaigns:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/republican-spending-dysfunction-promised-trillions-in-cuts/
However, it looks worse on the Blue side:
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/20...-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes
Two trains heading towards a fiscal cliff. One is just going noticeably slower and at least making a show of hand wringing.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Building a wall.
But seriously, the monies diverted to ICE (they're already spending billions in order to identify undocumented immigrants), border patrol and maintaining immigration "tent cities," and funding deportations. Trump has said he wants to deport millions, and apparently it costs over $10,000 per deported individual. Who knows what will actually happen, but those aren't insignificant numbers.
Instead, we could let them live here, buy products and pay taxes (which they do).
