The REAL problem from here on out

[woosta]

I think Glenn made reference to what I see as the REAL problem from here on out: There are no longer those HUGE bands that people will die to see. From here on, it seems to me that this festival will serve to satisfy the most niche factions among us. I mean, if enough people are asking for Pretty Maids or Paradise Lost or whomever the case may be, I think that would be the obvious direction to go. We've seen the big guns, and yes, they can come back, but they're already touring somewhat regularly.

And now the second problem: We're still on first tier/high second tier bands and people are whining about who's this and who's that and how do the sit as high as they do and even "how did this band get chosen". I'm in constant awe at the lack of knowledge of some on this board. No, you can't know everyone, but damn, we're on the big names of Europe still and many don't have a clue around here. This, in turn, seems to "lessen" their view of the festival. Me? I'm getting more and more excited each year at the increasing chance to see Pretty Maids, Tiamat, Charon, and whoever else. What's going to go on at this board with all the bitching, whining, crying, questioning, and whatnot when we move away from the Blind Guardians and Edguys and Nightwishs? It seems like it will be one fucking cry-fest with folks scratching their heads about this and that unknown (to them) band.

That being said, I can certainly endorse questions and disappointment by individuals, but when we've got members of this fucking board suggesting that they "don't know much about Sonata Arctica", brother, we're in for some big fucking trouble about 3 festivals from now.

 

[General Zod]

I agree with your post. I think Glenn is in a tough spot. It will be interesting to see if he opens the gates a bit wider, to other Metal genres, in an attempt to expand interest in the festival.

Zod

 

[nailz]

There's still a few big ticket bands out there that have not made the Journey over here.. for example... Iron Savior. So, while I sort of agree that there's a "been there done that" feel.. sort of.. there's still fresh first time blood to bring in. I think that the major problem with all of the bitching is that well.. like you said.. the REALLY big guns have come over and paved the way, and comparatively, the bands really are getting higher up on the slots where as they would be "undeserving" 2-3 years ago.

You could say Glenn painted himself into a corner, pulling out all the stops for PP3-5, but what people probably fail to realise is there ARE 10 bands EVERY year, and it gets harder and harder to get bigger and better names when every year your choices "dwindle". You can't have an all stars lineup (though this might be a neat idea for PP10), with 10 repeat bands.

I've always found this fest to raise awareness of the bands that are out there, kind of like someone saying "Hey, check out this Band's CD!" ... except instead of a CD, we get the BAND. While I don't personally feel that this years lineup is up to snuff with PP4, I do relish the chance for the bands coming in to win me over and show me what they're made of. I always leave Atlanta being a really big fan of 2 or 3 new bands, and thats really what I enjoy most.

 

[Kenso]

I think Glenn made reference to what I see as the REAL problem from here on out: There are no longer those HUGE bands that people will die to see. From here on, it seems to me that this festival will serve to satisfy the most niche factions among us. I mean, if enough people are asking for Pretty Maids or Paradise Lost or whomever the case may be, I think that would be the obvious direction to go. We've seen the big guns, and yes, they can come back, but they're already touring somewhat regularly.

And now the second problem: We're still on first tier/high second tier bands and people are whining about who's this and who's that and how do the sit as high as they do and even "how did this band get chosen". I'm in constant awe at the lack of knowledge of some on this board. No, you can't know everyone, but damn, we're on the big names of Europe still and many don't have a clue around here. This, in turn, seems to "lessen" their view of the festival. Me? I'm getting more and more excited each year at the increasing chance to see Pretty Maids, Tiamat, Charon, and whoever else. What's going to go on at this board with all the bitching, whining, crying, questioning, and whatnot when we move away from the Blind Guardians and Edguys and Nightwishs? It seems like it will be one fucking cry-fest with folks scratching their heads about this and that unknown (to them) band.

That being said, I can certainly endorse questions and disappointment by individuals, but when we've got members of this fucking board suggesting that they "don't know much about Sonata Arctica", brother, we're in for some big fucking trouble about 3 festivals from now.

god damn i totally fucking agree man.

 

[General Zod]

There's still a few big ticket bands out there that have not made the Journey over here.. for example... Iron Savior.

Iron Savior is a "big ticket band"? When I think big ticket, I think Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Stratovarius, Nightwish, etc. I'd hardly put Iron Savior in that group, in terms of record sales and drawing power. Personal tastes aside, I'd be shocked if they rated anything higher than a #3 spot, if that.

Zod

 

[Magius]

Iron Savior is a "big ticket band"? When I think big ticket, I think Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Stratovarius, Nightwish, etc. I'd hardly put Iron Savior in that group, in terms of record sales and drawing power. Personal tastes aside, I'd be shocked if they rated anything higher than a #3 spot, if that.

Zod

Of that calibur there are very few left without repeats: Rhapsody, Helloween, Iced Earth, and Fates Warning, whether one likes them or not, are about all I can think of.
Interesting though that those are the older established bands, and newer bands almost never get mentioned in such esteemed company. However, in the European scene those bands are being surpassed by the Edguy, Brainstorm, Sonata Arctica generation. The skyrocketing of Dragonforce's popularity is a clear example. Woosta is correct that if the US audience can't recognize that SA has risen to that level and is worthy of headlining there will be problems later.
Add to that, many people have no objectivity and can't distinguish between "a big name" and their personal obsession.

 

[Ascension]

l believe there are still bands out there that could pull off a headliner spot that haven't been to PP yet. Upon their announcement, there would be groans among the ranks. But given the opportunity, bands like Pretty Maids, Labyrinth, Vicious Rumors, and DGM would most likely rise to the occasion to deliver memorable performances. Glenn posted about "creating headliners"...it has come to that point. Instead of rehashing the same bands over & over. Being "progressive" with Progpower ideals seems to be the direction needed.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

Children of Bodom would be a pretty big name band, eh?

 

[nailz]

I wouldn't mind seeing them in a 1st or 2nd slot.

 

[Pellaz]

Children of Bodom would be a pretty big name band, eh?

I'd rather see Scar Symmetry with a long set, in a great venue like Center Stage. CoB would be great in such an excellent setting, too!

 

[rockyracoon]

The concept of the "big ticket" band has become beyond subjective. There are so many various factors that can never be accounted for in regards to all attendees. I wonder how much this sort of choice must weigh on Glenn on a daily basis...it would destroy most of us for sure.

 

[Curufin]

Book Ayreon, problem solved!

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Who????









Hheheheheheheh j/k!

J-Dubya

 

[SyXified]

I really don't mean this to be directly arguementative over the point you are making, which I understand - but I just don't see the bitching people keep mentioning this year. I know last year there was some groaning over Evergrey headlining from the return factor, and then Nevermore has a style that kindof has real love em or hate em appeal, and then Jorn got kindof a 'does he really have the credibility to headline' attitude. But this year...all I've seen is YES YES YES SWEET SWEET SWEET and a whole lot of this dude . I mean, Glenn could book a pretty sure bet headliner for Sat like Symphony X or Angra, both of whom I would imagine would be available if needed or chosen, and this would be largely hailed as the best lineup since PPIII.

I don't think returning headliners is really that big a deal. This isn't exactly the kind of genre where you see a huge band once and have had your fill. Even in regard to bands touring the US more often, I mean do you really want to watch Symphony X play 5 songs on a second stage, with a shit ass sound system that breaks halfway through between sets by screamy and surley - and have that be the entirety of your experience with them live? I want to see them kicking ass for 1.5 hours playing classics to a crowd that actually appreciates the music! When it comes to Progpower, many of the bigger bands who have already headlined still have just as much draw power for me as they did the first time around. If Gamma Ray goes, I go.

Plus there are so many creative things you can do with return headliners - what with all the side projects and concept albums abound. With a little imagination you can turn a performance from a return headliner into somthing you could not see anywhere else.

People definitely should not bitch so much about bands in the lower 6 slots not necessarily being well known - and I think it is good this fest is allowing some of those lesser known bands a chance to really establish themselves through a kick ass performance. Announcements are made in PLENTY of time to familiarize yourself with the years lesser known bands if need be (ie for fans like me with fairly selective taste in the genre who prefer going into a show knowing the tunes rather than hearing them for the first time). Usually, even if you know NONE of the bottom 6, there are likely going to be at least 2 that end up really wowing you. And I think the top 4 can pretty much have the drawing power if the #2's are decently well known and the #1's are pretty universally liked.

It's hard to say a fest that just keeps on selling out is really in any sort of trouble. Worst case scenario you can always tweak the format a wee bit - which we already see being done in the extended Showcase which is giving people all the more incentive to go. Plus the whole social aspect that has grown to be part of the fest. It's all good

 

[woosta]

I really don't mean this to be directly arguementative over the point you are making, which I understand - but I just don't see the bitching people keep mentioning this year. I know last year there was some groaning over Evergrey headlining from the return factor, and then Nevermore has a style that kindof has real love em or hate em appeal, and then Jorn got kindof a 'does he really have the credibility to headline' attitude. But this year...all I've seen is YES YES YES SWEET SWEET SWEET and a whole lot of this dude . I mean, Glenn could book a pretty sure bet headliner for Sat like Symphony X or Angra, both of whom I would imagine would be available if needed or chosen, and this would be largely hailed as the best lineup since PPIII.

I don't think returning headliners is really that big a deal. This isn't exactly the kind of genre where you see a huge band once and have had your fill. Even in regard to bands touring the US more often, I mean do you really want to watch Symphony X play 5 songs on a second stage, with a shit ass sound system that breaks halfway through between sets by screamy and surley - and have that be the entirety of your experience with them live? I want to see them kicking ass for 1.5 hours playing classics to a crowd that actually appreciates the music! When it comes to Progpower, many of the bigger bands who have already headlined still have just as much draw power for me as they did the first time around. If Gamma Ray goes, I go.

Plus there are so many creative things you can do with return headliners - what with all the side projects and concept albums abound. With a little imagination you can turn a performance from a return headliner into somthing you could not see anywhere else.

People definitely should not bitch so much about bands in the lower 6 slots not necessarily being well known - and I think it is good this fest is allowing some of those lesser known bands a chance to really establish themselves through a kick ass performance. Announcements are made in PLENTY of time to familiarize yourself with the years lesser known bands if need be (ie for fans like me with fairly selective taste in the genre who prefer going into a show knowing the tunes rather than hearing them for the first time). Usually, even if you know NONE of the bottom 6, there are likely going to be at least 2 that end up really wowing you. And I think the top 4 can pretty much have the drawing power if the #2's are decently well known and the #1's are pretty universally liked.

It's hard to say a fest that just keeps on selling out is really in any sort of trouble. Worst case scenario you can always tweak the format a wee bit - which we already see being done in the extended Showcase which is giving people all the more incentive to go. Plus the whole social aspect that has grown to be part of the fest. It's all good

Yeah, by "in trouble", I was referring to the bitching around here. And there certainly is a lot of "cool" and 'awesome" as you said, but there seems to be quite a few one-shot posters who bitch without a lot of merit or point behind their position (I think Glenn is responding to those folks on some of the other posts). I'm saying that I'd like to see us move beyond the point where you need some legendary band on the bill to have a "quality lineup" in people's minds. Most of us are already there but there are those others....

We're coming to the point where there are probably going to be 6 "new" bands and 2 known headliners and I'm not sure some people are ready for that around these parts.

 

[Cheiron]

Glenn's challenge is immense now. But what I think he's realizing (or had realized) is that he doesn't have to have a roster of bands that 60,000 people think is great. He needs one that 1,200 enjoys, and a good percentage of that who is willing to travel to enjoy.

There will always be possibilities. Sure some will be repeats, but there are a lot of new bands that soon will be able to handle co-headlining slots, and such.

Glenn has for the last couple years been reaching out a bit more into other genres. Particularly, extending the power and prog parts, into melodic death & black.

But yes, fans need to stop expecting for that 'amazing' band to be announced. Most of them have already been here, and there are only so many amazing bands which are affordable and realistic for our size of a venue.

Glenn knows enough about the business to keep going, but we as fans need to also adjust some of our perspectives, and understand that Glenn can't just have repeats at the top -- with youthful surprises at the bottom.

 

[King Lek]

Funny....I have never really thought this festival was about "Big ticket" bands. I am not so sure I would consider any of the line-ups "stacked" given the times they took place.

As for me, while I know many of these bands by name, each year there are at least half the bands that I know nothing about their music as I do not have the time, nor the budget, to get acquire and digest all this music plus what I already follow closely (hey, this is not the only genre of music out there). I love this as I get a chance to get involved with specific bands I might not have and then, get to see them live. This is what gets me coming back, nothing else. This is what Prog-Power is about.

The other thing I take into consideration (in reference to repeats) is many have not seen all the bands that have played the festival in the past and bringing a pair back as they gain notoriety is a good thing also. The showcase evolving is really an outstanding addition as this helps this cause greatly while still allowing newer bands to be part of the main festival as well as "rewarding" those bands that were "unknowns" who tore it up the year previous.

I have known of the festival since three and have been attending since five, and while there may come a day when I decide there is something else I wish to do with vacation time and funds (though I see that happening no time soon), I seriously doubt, with the thought and considerations that go into the line-ups for this festival, that the line-up would be the reason I did not attend.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the line-ups, past or present. It is undeniable that this is a one-of-a-kind festival that is unequaled, BY FAR, stateside.

 

[JenniferLynn]

I think Glenn made reference to what I see as the REAL problem from here on out: There are no longer those HUGE bands that people will die to see. From here on, it seems to me that this festival will serve to satisfy the most niche factions among us. I mean, if enough people are asking for Pretty Maids or Paradise Lost or whomever the case may be, I think that would be the obvious direction to go. We've seen the big guns, and yes, they can come back, but they're already touring somewhat regularly.

And now the second problem: We're still on first tier/high second tier bands and people are whining about who's this and who's that and how do the sit as high as they do and even "how did this band get chosen". I'm in constant awe at the lack of knowledge of some on this board. No, you can't know everyone, but damn, we're on the big names of Europe still and many don't have a clue around here. This, in turn, seems to "lessen" their view of the festival. Me? I'm getting more and more excited each year at the increasing chance to see Pretty Maids, Tiamat, Charon, and whoever else. What's going to go on at this board with all the bitching, whining, crying, questioning, and whatnot when we move away from the Blind Guardians and Edguys and Nightwishs? It seems like it will be one fucking cry-fest with folks scratching their heads about this and that unknown (to them) band.

That being said, I can certainly endorse questions and disappointment by individuals, but when we've got members of this fucking board suggesting that they "don't know much about Sonata Arctica", brother, we're in for some big fucking trouble about 3 festivals from now.

Last year was my first PP and I totally agree with ya... Those involved are bustin' their butts 365 just to get this all set up and to complain about who ISN'T there is just silly... If you want someone there, be a sponsor... Hell I'm totally content to see 3 of the bands already listed and go home ~ ok I so won't 'cause that totally breaks into party time... hehehe

Enjoy what's on the platter ~ don't complain about what's not!!!

 

[Harvester]

I'm not goint to actively participate in this thread. I will say that this may end up being one of my favorite threads ever on this forum. Kudos to Woosta and for those that have elected to post some well articulated thoughts.

 

[Bear]

I personally think with the parity in alot of the new metal genre's you never know who is going to come out of nowhere. Everyone including myself said WTF when Circus Maximus was announced, and low and behold they have become one of my favorite bands. I think its the way of the world now and you just will never know who is going to step up and become that next great thing.

Bear