The Ron Paul appreciation thread!

You just made that up...

No I didn't. Since the NH primary the media is actually critiquing GOP candidates for not blindly endorsing their appointed nominee. Thanks for the credit, though.

Read my post more carefully. Before addressing any other issues (as hugely important as they might be) the economy has to be fixed. You cannot realistically attempt to fix the economy -or anything really- without getting rid of an over sized, self-serving government, reckless overspending, and economic self-entities that answer to no one, such as the FED.

Why do you believe that big government is fundamentally such a bad idea? I'm still struggling to understand the ideology that says take power out of government and give it to big business, the very thing which is accused of corrupting the government in the first place.

Not easy to take you seriously when you say something like that. I would recommend you to inform yourself and read a whole lot more, though.
 
Not easy to take you seriously when you say something like that. I would recommend you to inform yourself and read a whole lot more, though.

You won't until you realize that taking away government power is not empowering to most of the population.
 
*puts on flame suit* You see, libertarianism is a lot like communism: It sounds good in theory but it doesn't work in practice

There is absolutely no proof a free market will help anyone except the richest percentile - yet lots of proof things get worse for lower classes. Still a lot of people "believe" in it and if you ask for specific solutions to critical problems they will tell you "the market's gonna regulate itself", yeah right because people are essentially good and don't fuck others over if they are in the position to improve their own standing make shitloads of money. Also god does exist and unicorns do, too. Oh and Elvis is alive.
:P

Markets dont depend on that.
 
IF YOU'RE A RON PAUL SUPPORTER, LISTEN UP, RON NEEDS YOUR HELP!! February 25th will be Promote National Ron Paul Day. We hit the streets in groups, and do what the media has failed to do, and that is promote Ron Paul. This man is fighting for us, so let's fight for him! Every city, state, everywhere. We will promote Ron Paul to the people. February 25th. National Promote Ron Paul Day. Join the event on FB. SHARE SHARE. JOIN JOIN.
Just relaying some info, for whoever is interested.
 
Well, well, well, what do we have here??? A RON PAUL thread on the Sneap forum? Wow!

Ron Paul is why I stopped coming here years ago. This man changed my life in both my character/personality and how I see the world. I've spent most of my time outside of work (and plenty during) reading the masters (Hayek, Von Mises, Friedman, PAUL, etc.) and studying history and the philosophy of liberty. Once you understand that everything is connected, it becomes easy. So easy that we tend to get frustrated when people can't see what is so cleary in their faces. I actually don't debate knuckleheads on the 'net anymore, because I've learned that most people are just stubborn and refuse to admit when they're wrong - in part because they think that they are so smart. It's tiring now to see the arrogance of people who actually believe that they are making arguments or points that Dr. Paul hasn't already addressed or considered. No one has EVER beat him in a debate. No one. EVER. Peter Morici (Economics Prof. UMD) came close one time, but in the end he lost too... Because it all comes down to these simple points -

1. Natural selection is real and cannot be reversed by man. Plus, it's very stupid to try to - especially if you accept evolution as fact.

2. Gold is worth more than paper. Sure, it's just a shiny rock... But we love it.

I have signed copies of "The Revolution: A Manifesto", "End The Fed", and a pocket Constitution. I also have a picture of him talking in my ear while rubbing he's my wife's back at an event back in 2007. White Jesus rules!
 
Well, well, well, what do we have here??? A RON PAUL thread on the Sneap forum? Wow!

Ron Paul is why I stopped coming here years ago. This man changed my life in both my character/personality and how I see the world. I've spent most of my time outside of work (and plenty during) reading the masters (Hayek, Von Mises, Friedman, PAUL, etc.) and studying history and the philosophy of liberty. Once you understand that everything is connected, it becomes easy. So easy that we tend to get frustrated when people can't see what is so cleary in their faces. I actually don't debate knuckleheads on the 'net anymore, because I've learned that most people are just stubborn and refuse to admit when they're wrong - in part because they think that they are so smart. It's tiring now to see the arrogance of people who actually believe that they are making arguments or points that Dr. Paul hasn't already addressed or considered. No one has EVER beat him in a debate. No one. EVER. Peter Morici (Economics Prof. UMD) came close one time, but in the end he lost too... Because it all comes down to these simple points -

1. Natural selection is real and cannot be reversed by man. Plus, it's very stupid to try to - especially if you accept evolution as fact.

2. Gold is worth more than paper. Sure, it's just a shiny rock... But we love it.

I have signed copies of "The Revolution: A Manifesto", "End The Fed", and a pocket Constitution. I also have a picture of him talking in my ear while rubbing he's my wife's back at an event back in 2007. White Jesus rules!

Yessssss :rock:
 
1. Natural selection is real and cannot be reversed by man. Plus, it's very stupid to try to - especially if you accept evolution as fact.

firstly, please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is–ought_problem

Just because something is prevalent in nature (i'm not removing homo sapiens from nature here) doesn't mean it is in any way something that is desirable. Rape, killing your own infants, genocide and ignorant self-destruction all happen in nature. If you make this leap from what is to what ought to be, there is no logical reason for the same not to be true for all the aforementioned activities. The difference you feel between them and principles of survival of the fittest is a moral and emotional one, not a reasoned argument.

{aside}
How comfortable can any christian be while defending natural selection as a guiding idiom? My understanding of the new testament is that heaven isn't reserved for the strong, the mighty or the dominant, it is reserved for the gentle and the kind who, if it is allowed to happen, are so often crushed by the strong.
{/aside}
 
I'm uncomfortable with all the 'Jesus' references here. RP himself is the first to say religious beliefs should NOT interfere with the political decisions of a president:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sj5HcoGK2w&fmt=18#t=1h36m47s

Listen to the others afterwards.
If anything he's the only one who's got it together. All the others use religion -as well as many other issues- just to attract gullible voters.
 
Bumping for greater justice.

Can't say I have a full understanding of american politics but from what I've gathered Ron Paul is starting to get some more recognition and support as of late, am I right in thinking this?

My opinions of american politicians doesnt really matter seeing as I'm not an american, but I must say I've been looking into Ron Paul a fair bit recently and love the fact that he seems to be genuine person who isn't afraid to speak his mind rather than trying to please his audience. And what I love more is that despite this, he seems to be growing in popularity
 
Bumping for greater justice.

I've been looking into Ron Paul a fair bit recently and love the fact that he seems to be genuine person who isn't afraid to speak his mind rather than trying to please his audience. And what I love more is that despite this, he seems to be growing in popularity

Yes you pretty much summed it up correctly. And he's up against the ignorance of people (mostly Americans, ironically enough) who bash him and call him all sorts of names, people who don't understand or know what he's talking about, the resilience of an entrenched GOP and bureaucrats unwilling to downsize themselves, half a century or more of a monstrous war profiting elite, special interests abroad, big-brother democrats/neocons with huge money muscle, fear mongering from all sides, corruption, a corporate owned media, prostitute journalists, a 'no paper trail' electoral process, the list goes on...

All those things make his endeavor all the more impressive IMO. The other three (four) candidates are more than willing to drive the US into total bankruptcy and I think even upscale the military adventurism to a new degree. Right now those whom Obama serves are seemingly fabricating provocations for war anywhere they can.. I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama 'administration' 'decides' to 'respond' to 'a growing Iranian nuclear threat' 'accordingly if necessary' 'without sacrificing any more brave American lives' etc etc

..or in plain words, bomb or even nuke the shit out of Iran, and in doing so stealing more money and further undermining the economy under the pretense of seizing foreign oil.



A couple of fitting quotes:

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -Hermann Goering

Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864. “I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and cause me to tremble for safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic destroyed.”


At this point I kind of hope in a way he doesn't really get the nomination, or if he does, that he doesn't get assassinated.
And yet I keep thinking, what if he would go on to almost single-handedly overcome so much and maybe even become a great force of history.. I'm guessing that's the hope in the minds of a lot of people.
 
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Btw RIP to Freedom Watch as it just got cancelled. Guess it was just a matter of time..


Of course characters like O'Reilly get to go on though:

 
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At this point I kind of hope in a way he doesn't really get the nomination, or if he does, that he doesn't get assassinated.
And yet I keep thinking, what if he would go on to almost single-handedly overcome so much and maybe even become a great force of history.. I'm guessing that's the hope in the minds of a lot of people.

I must say I've had similar thoughts. I'm not sure if its just a result of watching too many movies but I can't shake the feeling that should he make the presidency, he would be a prime assassination target. I'm not saying this because of what he stands for so much, but rather because of the obvious disdain towards him from the media. You see all these skewed facts about candidate positions in the polls, and all this media attention focusing on anyone but ron paul when it comes to the good reactions they get from crowds. To me it just seems that its obvious that there is a group of people against him who obviously hold a lot of power and influence, and who have a lot to lose by his presidency, and I dont like to think about what measures people like that would take in times of desperation.

I guarantee you that if Ron Paul said he wanted to build a moon base, or let slip that he doesnt care about the poor, or whatever other ridiculous things the other candidates have said, the media would be all over him. Thankfully it seems he knows what hes talking about and believes in the message hes spreading, so he never has and hopefully never will, slip up like the other candidates who (at least to me) seem to be focusing a lot of their attention on memorised phrases and whats written in front of them, rather than Ron Paul who seems to always speak from the heart.

Having said all of that though, these are just the ramblings of a half informed Englishman from across the pond. Whether I'm over thinking the whole situation or not, it doesn't really matter to me. I can safely say that this man whom I've never met, and probably never will, has been more of an inspiration to me in recent times than anyone I can recall, and I hope that his message resonates long after hes gone, however he goes out
 
I like what Ron Paul says. I wish he had a better chance at winning the primary. Should Rick Santorum become the next president of the U.S. then I will be thinking about a move to another country as cowardly as that may sound.
 
Yes you're both right, all those thoughts seem pretty common amongst people.

Surprised we haven't had any idiots in to spout off about Paul being a racist or some shit.

Wanted to quote this comment as it is the media indeed doing most of the trashing and cheap tactics.


What they try to get away with



What they won't even mention..

 
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So the plan to win the nomination is via subversion of a representative democracy?

I would hope that any serious candidate would take the time to educate its base of support to ensure that they are accurately represented when the delegates are awarded; if not, then it's their own fault for overlooking such an important part of the process. So sure, I guess in a way you could call it "subversion", but you can hardly criticize the Paul campaign for simply understanding the caucus system and having superior organization and mobilization of its supporters. Also, it's not like the media or the Republican party has been fairly handling the Paul campaign anyhow, so if Ron is actually able to pick up delegates without most people even knowing it, then more power to him.

I've been meaning to ask you dude...I know you've never really been on board all the way with Ron Paul, but it seems like in more recent months you've been a lot more critical of his ideology than you used to be, whereas before it was mostly a social-issues gripe you had with him. Also, you recently posted somewhere (can't remember where, either on the boards or on Facebook) that you love Obama's policies for the most part. It couldn't have been more than six months ago (I believe in a discussion on the boards about health care) where you were at least partially defending the concept of free markets, and in response to someone saying that there are no modern examples of free markets in health care, your response was basically "...and isn't it sad that that's the case, that it has never been adequately explored or implemented?". Anyway, I'm just not really sure what changed or at least influenced your view on things more recently. Did you take some college course or have a professor that really hammered the supposed glory of government into your mind? What is it about Obama's policies that you find likable? Will you seriously be voting for him in November? At least for a while, you and I seemed to be pretty much on the same page on the topic of monetary policy, gold vs. fiat money, deficits, etc., but the way you talk now, for all I know Ben Bernanke is now one of your heroes :lol:
 
I'm not criticizing the method, subversion was probably more of a loaded word than I should've used. It just serves as a reminder of how ridiculously convoluted our system is, between the caucus delegates and Electoral College and all.

You're right on a lot of points. I used to be pretty gung-ho Paul, but have always differed on social policies. I still think that the "states rights" diversion when discussing abortion and gay marriage is cowardly at best, especially since delegating something like gay marriage to the states essentially means that you don't think the 14th Amendment should apply to issues of sexual orientation.

As far as the big ticket Paul issues, though, what've we got? Ending the Federal Reserve? I agree in principal that it's an institution that should not exist, but it's just not going to happen on a political level, and I don't think any of his proposed alternatives are really that great. Barter systems are too inflexible and "local tender" setups are almost as bad. Gold and silver as tender would require either huge deflationary measures or the entire world to take on the same system at the same time. Inflation is low and more or less easily predictable, so I'm not sure what problem it would solve at this point. Credit unions/state banks and interest-free treasury loans to eliminate the veritable middleman would work, but not well enough in our current system to make the change worth it without other huge reforms.

I'm onboard with his foreign policy, drug policy, and desire to greatly reduce the deficit, but not with the amount of social programs he wants to cut along the way.

I don't remember saying I love Obama's policies, although there are many I've been in support of. The man is still anti same-sex marriage, pro war on drugs, pro war in Iraq, and the forced-buy-in Obamacare system is bullshit. That said, the banking reforms he's instituted and a lot of the regulations on health insurance that were associated with Obamacare have been a step in the right direction IMO.

I still do think that the concept of a free-market health care industry would be very interesting to explore, but I don't think that it's worth diving into unchartered territory when there are known and proven examples of single-payer, national healthcare systems around the world, especially when the most successful ones were implemented with books virtually as unbalanced as ours are currently. There's nothing about our current system that I find defendable or worth mentioning in debates about health care - it's the most expensive and isn't even close to providing the highest level of health care (throwing millions upon millions of dollars might get you the best care in the world, but that's not limited to the US or our system by any means).

As far as what caused the change, I think it's twofold.

1. Living in and traveling extensively around Europe and experiencing first-hand how utterly ridiculous and inaccurate the concerns and complaints from the general right of US politics are.
2. Moving out of my parents house, and not just in a 'off to college' way. Actually being financially responsible for the first time and not being coddled by my parents was a huge slap in the face and reality check for me, and to this day I've still never met a staunch neocon/libertarian who wasn't an raised in a predominately white, upper-middle class household. I can only imagine the position I'd be in if I weren't given that advantage in life (I was definitely raised in that setting).

It definitely wasn't a course or professor that made big government seem more appealing (the courses I took while abroad were really a joke as far as academics were concerned), but two specific books I have read since being back and realizing how much my views have changed have definitely solidified the idea in my head. Jeff Madrick's 'The Case for Big Government' presents and extremely well thought out and reasoned argument for big government, specific social programs, and how they'd be funded/why they're necessary, and David Schweickert's 'After Capitalism' is an attempt to outline an economic model that goes against the current assumption that there isn't a viable alternative to capitalism. It's still a market economy, but it's a fairly socialized one. I think you'd find that one in particular quite interesting because of the system of banking and capital investment he outlines - it eliminates the Fed (and fractional reserve banking) and sets up a series of local/state banks in its stead.

As far as voting for Obama in November, it'd be hard to say that I'm not going to vote for him. I honestly believe and expect that Romney will get the GOP nomination, and there's no way in hell that I'm voting for a self-hating, Democrat cult-member who decided to run in a Republican primary.

If (and this is a huge if) Paul gets the nomination, I'd most likely vote for him. Not because I agree with his social or fiscal policies, but because I think what he actually could get done in 4 years would be beneficial in the long run.

And no, Bernanke is still most definitely not one of my heroes. As you've said before, I've made money by betting against what he says will happen, but I'm not regretting my decision to sell my gold shares at $1880 last year. ;)