The School/Uni Thread

[Mountains_of_Mars]

I tried reading the Tractatus. Tried is the key word. It was just way beyond my level.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

What are you writing about? Despite all of its flaws, I love the Tractatus if not only from a stylistic perspective. There's also a lot of good philosophy buried amidst the obvious inaccuracies.

Yeah, its an amazing book. He accomplishes quite a bit in very little space. But its also a pain, because its so technical and void of details.

I was arguing that the conclusions of the Tractatus imply the "method" of the Investigations. The Tractatus is a book that cannot be written. It presents a double standard from it is able to speak from the transcendental standpoint (the limit of the world) while demonstrating that everything that can be said must be said from within the world. Wittgenstein provides the saying/showing distinction to express his transcendental insights, but ultimately what he demonstrates is that what is shown (logic and ethics) can not be spoken of. Thus, the book famously ends with "that which cannot be said must be passed over silence."

The Investigations can be read as an actualization of 6.53 of the Tractatus.
[FONT=&quot]The correct method in philosophy would really be the following: to say nothing except what can be said, i.e. propositions of the natural sciences—i.e. something that has nothing to do with philosophy—and then, whenever someone else wanted to say something metaphysical, to demonstrate to him that he had failed to give meaning to a to certain signs in his propositions. Although it would not be satisfying to the other person—he would not have the feeling that we were teaching him philosophy—this method would be the only strictly correct one. [/FONT]

Basically the Investigations actualizes this method, except it rejects the emphasis on the natural sciences. Once the absolute limit of language is shown to be nonsense, no one language game is considered fundamental. Otherwise, the Investigations can be read as series of reminders meant to curb the metaphysical impulse that ultimatley leads to nonsense.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I took a grad seminar on the Philosophical Investigations, and it was one of my least favorite courses of my entire time as a grad student. I really just don't like the way Wittgenstein wrote and I had a hell of a time trying to figure out what his arguments were (insofar as he had any arguments, ordinarily construed) and why he was making them. Part of the problem was that the professor who taught the course really wasn't much of a help in understanding this stuff. Everyone who took the course was way out of their depth, including me.

I'm "trained" to read conventional academic, analytic philosophers and to write like one. Moreover, I adhere to the conventional "Tell them what you're doing and why you're doing it, do it, and then tell them what you did" style of writing (I have to anyway, as this is the standard in college courses and academic writing generally.) I try very hard to avoid any kind of obfuscation. Wittgenstein completely subverts that, so reading him is often an infuriating experience for me. For a striking contrast in early analytic philosophy, check out G.E. Moore's Principia Ethica: clearly written and clearly argued (and a brilliant piece of philosophy to boot). That said, I haven't read the Tractatus, so I don't know whether I would find it more approachable.

Wow, that sounds just like my class. My professor is more of an expert on Aquinas, Aristotle and social-political philosophy-- none of which are much help with Wittgenstein. I think they picked him because he's the few professors from an analytical background. However, he is far from an "expert" on Wittgenstein, and doesn't seem to know much about Russell or Frege- so ultimately the class has no has no historical context and most the time he just asks us questions vaguely associated with the text.

The Investigations is love/hate for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm just reading someone's notebook. Other times its extremely insightful. He's very obscure, but you have remember that he's not trying to prove some philosophical argument, he's trying to show us 1) how think differently and 2) avoid the absurdities of metaphysics.

 

[Addo_Of_Nex]

crimson: Nice. The methodology of the Tractatus is what's always kept me coming back to it repeatedly over the past year or so. It presents itself as one of the most rigorous texts ever, but the real rigor seems to come in when the tail end of proposition 6 comes about and proceeds toward the notorious "nonsense". Unfortunately, I haven't read PI (though it's coming in the mail any day now); but I eagerly await tearing it apart and seeing how the "nonsense" described in the Tractatus relates to his entirely different later work.

Cyth: I highly doubt you'll find the Tractatus more approachable than his later work. A lot of it feels like the product of its time when metamathematics was just blossoming and everyone was trying to do everything they could with the new and exciting tool of axiomatic set theory. Like I said, it presents itself as a rigorous piece of work; but it's hard to sort through it all given the notorious shift toward mysticism at the tail end that crimson mentioned.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

crimson: Nice. The methodology of the Tractatus is what's always kept me coming back to it repeatedly over the past year or so. It presents itself as one of the most rigorous texts ever, but the real rigor seems to come in when the tail end of proposition 6 comes about and proceeds toward the notorious "nonsense". Unfortunately, I haven't read PI (though it's coming in the mail any day now); but I eagerly await tearing it apart and seeing how the "nonsense" described in the Tractatus relates to his entirely different later work.

Yeah you'll find it interesting. The frist 100 propositions or so are a really good critique of the Tractatus and other representationalist views. The private language argument is great.

On the whole its like reading an analytic Nietzsche. Makes a bunch of thought provoking but vague assertions. Criticizes everyone- materialists, behaviorists, pychologism, substance dualism. He'll lead you in one direction and then show you exactly why that mode of thought can't work.

At times frustrating and times dull. However, there is also a ton of good content.

 

[Nichrome]

I'm just finishing my MSc at UCL before jetting off to America in september to start a PhD in Physics at MIT!

 

[Ov Wulf]

I am a general business student at an average university with a 3.1 GPA. Go team. However, no debt so I guess I have one thing to my advantage.

 

[sevag00]

I'm just finishing my MSc at UCL before jetting off to America in september to start a PhD in Physics at MIT!

Nice! PhD in physics at MIT is some major shit.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I am a general business student at an average university with a 3.1 GPA. Go team. However, no debt so I guess I have one thing to my advantage.

E-Five for being slight above average!

 

[Ov Wulf]

E-Five for being slight above average!

Fuck yeah!

Honestly, I get by alright. I have decent summer employment so it helps pay the bills so if I can keep it up, I will graduate in about 1.5 years with no debt. It will help in the long-run. I've had a suspicion that I will be going into the skilled trades after I graduate anyways. A business background will at least give me a foundation to understand the managerial/administrative side of managing a shop down the road.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I feel that my interest in school is growing with each day so I still plan on going into graduate school, but if all fails I'll get a teachers certificate and teach at the high-school level.

 

[Death Aflame]

I am nearing the end of my postgrad program in publishing. I am done classes and interning at a small Canadian literary press called Cormorant Books doing editorial and marketing tasks. Cormorant is well known for a few books: Nino Ricci's Lives of the Saints, publishing some early short story collections by Joseph Boyden (a Giller prize winner), and more recently a book called The Heart Specialist by Claire Holden Rothman.

It's been an enlightening experience to say the least. The slush pile (an industry term for all the unsolicited manuscripts that a publisher receives) is among the highlights. A story about time travel discovered by some University of Ottawa professors and stolen by the American government led by none other than President Magic Johnson (of course) stands out. Oh, and there are some freak pterodactyl hunting accidents to spice the political drama up.

I've also proofread a bunch of manuscripts, helped with book launches, wrote catalogue copy and worked on getting permissions. Quite a lot of stuff for only three weeks worth of interning.

 

[KMeadows74]

Nice, Death Aflame. I'm in that stunned/happy space between finishing up classes and picking up my printed, approved thesis and graduation day. It's so...goddamn nice. I've just finished up my MFA in Creative Writing with a certificate in publishing. I've heard of Cormorant. I worked for Autumn House Press here in Pittsburgh for a while--quit to focus on my thesis. Before Grad school, I worked for The Gettysburg Review--good journal, but the editor's a douchebag. Looking to start my own press. Starting work on a book in the next couple of weeks. Oh, and I just (yesterday) got an article pitch accepted to Fangoria magazine, much to the dismay of my fellow literary peers.

 

[The Emptier]

So I'm officially enrolled into the Capital University in Bexley Ohio (outside of Columbus) as a Conservatory student

 

[King Richard]

I was accepted to Purdue.

 

[Srontgorrth]

Congrats

 

[The Ozzman]

So I'm officially enrolled into the Capital University in Bexley Ohio (outside of Columbus) as a Conservatory student

Welcome to my neck of the woods (I'm a bit farther south, but you'll learn to hate Ohio quickly)

I was accepted to Purdue.

You didn't even finish at IU? WAT?

 

[The Emptier]

Kickass Drunkard! I was looking at IU's music program but I only got accepted into the uni and not the music school :/

I was in Ohio quite a bit this summer...what's wrong with it?

 

[The Ozzman]

Nothing is wrong with it until you live here. You'll be in Columbus, so that's marginally better than living in Cincinnati or Toledo..

 

[The Emptier]

ahh, yeah I was looking at a school in Cincinnati, and when I was there...It was just amazing how a couple blocks one way was ultra-ghetto and a couple blocks the next way were decent and upbeat. Wasn't keen on the area as a whole though.