The (Un)official write anything you want page

[Reign in Acai]

Why do you think that supplements are necessary when there is very little positive research to support America's annual $12 billion supplement habit? It's an industry that cashes in on marketing pseudoscientific claims and taking advantage of consumer ignorance.

What do epidemiological and observational studies show?

Epidemiologic and clinical trials have shown that omega-3 fatty acids reduce CVD incidence. Large-scale epidemiologic studies suggest that people at risk for coronary heart disease benefit from consuming omega-3 fatty acids from plants and marine sources.

The ideal amount to take isn’t clear. Evidence from prospective secondary prevention studies suggests that taking EPA+DHA ranging from 0.5 to 1.8 grams per day (either as fatty fish or supplements) significantly reduces deaths from heart disease and all causes. For alpha-linolenic acid, a total intake of 1.5–3 grams per day seems beneficial.

Randomized clinical trials have shown that omega-3 fatty acid supplements can reduce cardiovascular events (death, non-fatal heart attacks, non-fatal strokes). They can also slow the progression of atherosclerosis in coronary patients. However, more studies are needed to confirm and further define the health benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplements for preventing a first or subsequent cardiovascular event. For example, placebo-controlled, double-blind, randomized clinical trials are needed to document the safety and efficacy of omega-3 fatty acid supplements in high-risk patients (those with type 2 diabetes, dyslipidemia, hypertension and smokers) and coronary patients on drug therapy. Mechanistic studies on their apparent effects on sudden death also are needed.

Increasing omega-3 fatty acid intake through foods is preferable. However, coronary artery disease patients may not be able to get enough omega-3 by diet alone. These people may want to talk to their doctor about taking a supplement. Supplements also could help people with high triglycerides, who need even larger doses. The availability of high-quality omega-3 fatty acid supplements, free of contaminants, is an important prerequisite to their use.



-----------


Sure a couple more studies are needed, but why bother?!? This is God damn chicken of the sea we're talking about. Now close your eyes and pretend you have a mouthful of Jessica Simpson. :Smokedev:

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

Vitamins and supplements are fine when necessary, but there's definitely a huge problem in this country with megadosing, and often enough people can save their supplement money for something else.

Yeah, I read a few studies where they said basically plenty of people were overdosing on this shit and were getting a wide range of health problems. Cancer? I think was one of them, but it was a few months back (6-8).

Doesn't help that marketing people got the bright idea, to OVERCHARGE everything with vitamins (especially C) in order to sell it more. MANTASTIC!

But othertimes, supplements _ARE_ useful, just not very often and generally its your doctor who will let you know whats up and why.

I dunno about there, but here, its important to do your own research after the doctor talks to you. Most of these guys try and push pills from the companies that slip them cash. Evil Greedy doctors you say, but over here, there are plenty of doctors who work 14 hour days and can't even afford to keep their office open. (Epic 2-tier Healthcare system fail).

 

[swizzlenuts]

There's no need to apply any scientific research behind products that do not fall under FDA regulation. Dietary supplements are neither a food nor are they a drug, which allows them to slip under the big brother microscope straight on to the shelves of your local health retailer. Some of the more premier companies such as AST Sports Science put extensive lab research in to their products to back their claims. What I'm generally referring to here is creatine, bcaa's, nitric oxide, yadda yadda. Studies are astronomically expensive, which is why the majority of data backing such supplements comes from 3rd party testimonials (people like you and me).

IMO fish oil and multi-vitamins are irrefutably essential for healthy living. The American Heart Association's take on fish oil.

--------


What do epidemiological and observational studies show?

Epidemiologic and clinical trials have shown that omega-3 fatty acids reduce CVD incidence. Large-scale epidemiologic studies suggest that people at risk for coronary heart disease benefit from consuming omega-3 fatty acids from plants and marine sources.

The ideal amount to take isn’t clear. Evidence from prospective secondary prevention studies suggests that taking EPA+DHA ranging from 0.5 to 1.8 grams per day (either as fatty fish or supplements) significantly reduces deaths from heart disease and all causes. For alpha-linolenic acid, a total intake of 1.5–3 grams per day seems beneficial.

Randomized clinical trials have shown that omega-3 fatty acid supplements can reduce cardiovascular events (death, non-fatal heart attacks, non-fatal strokes). They can also slow the progression of atherosclerosis in coronary patients. However, more studies are needed to confirm and further define the health benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplements for preventing a first or subsequent cardiovascular event. For example, placebo-controlled, double-blind, randomized clinical trials are needed to document the safety and efficacy of omega-3 fatty acid supplements in high-risk patients (those with type 2 diabetes, dyslipidemia, hypertension and smokers) and coronary patients on drug therapy. Mechanistic studies on their apparent effects on sudden death also are needed.

Increasing omega-3 fatty acid intake through foods is preferable. However, coronary artery disease patients may not be able to get enough omega-3 by diet alone. These people may want to talk to their doctor about taking a supplement. Supplements also could help people with high triglycerides, who need even larger doses. The availability of high-quality omega-3 fatty acid supplements, free of contaminants, is an important prerequisite to their use.



-----------


Sure a couple more studies are needed, but why bother?!? This is God damn chicken of the sea we're talking about. Now close your eyes and pretend you have a mouthful of Jessica Simpson. :Smokedev:

1. No need for scientific research? That pretty much means you the supplements can be unregulated and do whatever the fuck they want to. Base all their claims on anecdotal evidence, rather than evidence that holds some weight. You're supporting a system that is prone to bullshit.

2. Fish oil has show some benefits, I'm not surprised. There is a metal analysis done where they show the benefits aren't much. It's a meta analysis so you have to actually look at how they did the study for it to hold any weight. I'm saying you shouldn't take it unless your doctor or some medical person thinks you need it.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Bro, Doctors are full of shit. Strike that, EVERYONE is full of shit. My whole point in this conversation is that You are your own best authority. If it works for you, placebo, or not, keep taking them. A placebo effect represents a mental boost. Even if you're taking gel capsulated salt water labeled Powerthirst, if you're seeing a rise in mental focus and determination, continue chugging that salt water.


BTW - The majority of these dietary supplements have undergone clinical trials, they are out there for the entire world to see. It's the individual brand variations that go undetected. Therefore, the popularity of a given product is widely based on which company has the best marketing shill. Still doesn't take away from the fact the underlying product possesses health benefiting properties. Yes, many companies do beef up their label claims, that's why it's your job as a consumer to find out which brands are on the up and up.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

Bro, Doctors are full of shit. Strike that, EVERYONE is full of shit. My whole point in this conversation is that You are your own best authority. If it works for you, placebo, or not, keep taking them. A placebo effect represents a mental boost. Even if you're taking gel capsulated salt water labeled Powerthirst, if you're seeing a rise in mental focus and determination, continue chugging that salt water.

This is my biggest point against Swizzledick. He generally attacks anything that works, even if it _is_ a placebo affect.

If it works... why not?

But he also makes a good counter, people will assume the placebos will help avoid the more scientific medicine. But where should one turn when western medicine has run out of its ability to help? Or doesn't work.

 

[Reign in Acai]

1. Dempsey RL, Mazzone MF, Meurer LN. Does oral creatine supplementation improve strength? A meta-analysis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12485548?dopt=Abstract

2. Volek JS, Duncan ND, Mazzetti SA, Staron RS, Putukian M, Gomez AL, Pearson DR, Fink WJ, Kraemer WJ. Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Aug;31(8):1147-56 [abstract]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449017?dopt=Abstract

3. Persky AM, Brazeau GA. Clinical pharmacology of the dietary supplement creatine monohydrate. Pharmacol Rev 2001 Jun;53(2):161-76
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11356982?dopt=Abstract

4. Schedel JM, Tanaka H, Kiyonaga A, Shindo M, Schutz Y. Acute creatine ingestion in human: consequences on serum creatine and creatinine concentrations. Life Sci 1999 Oct 29;65(23):2463-70
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10622230?dopt=Abstract

5. Saab G, Marsh GD, Casselman MA, Thompson RT. Changes in human muscle transverse relaxation following short-term creatine supplementation. Exp Physiol 2002 May;87(3):383-9
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12089606?dopt=Abstract


I can post 30 related articles on Creatine, and many more on any other dietary supplement of your choosing. Court is now adjourned.


:Spam:

 

[swizzlenuts]

This is my biggest point against Swizzledick. He generally attacks anything that works, even if it _is_ a placebo affect.

If it works... why not?

But he also makes a good counter, people will assume the placebos will help avoid the more scientific medicine. But where should one turn when western medicine has run out of its ability to help? Or doesn't work.

What the fuck are you talking about? I attack anything that works? That doesn't make any sense. I attack placebo effect because it's potentially harmful, if the person actually needs medicine. You could be feeling better, but potentially harming yourself. This is pretty much how I feel, in accordance with the first part of your second paragraph.

Do you honestly feel western medicine has a cure for everything? It doesn't have a lot of things figured out, but I personally see no reason to buy into something that doesn't have clinical trials to support them.

 

[swizzlenuts]

A bunch of articals[/url]


I can post 30 related articles on Creatine, and many more on any other dietary supplement of your choosing. Court is now adjourned.


:Spam:

Do you seriously not understand my point of going against supplements? Obviously there are some supplements that have been proven to work (especially if your body is lacking certain things to function properly), but the industry is completely unregulated and quacks have come through and harmed the industry and put out a lot of supplements that don't work (homeopathy is an example). I know your point is for me to ultimately choose. I choose evidence based medicine. I choose this because throughout history it's prolonged our lives, pretty much eliminated viral diseases, can cure many diseases that have plagued us in the past, and will continue to do so. To me, there is no reason to support people who do not go through clinical trials, because they can potentially got to a purely anecdotal evidence requirement, which has shown not to work and can harm our progression.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Eh, I don't even care anymore, you're fucking up my Chi.

 

[dorian gray]

Frankly, I'd like to see a comeback by antiquated diseases like typhiod, consumption, and dropsy. A little smallpox outbreak would be entertaining as well

 

[E-bortion]

Is this the "write anything you want" thread? Did I somehow take a wrong turn past the food court and end up at GNC? I'm confused.

 

[dorian gray]

This is the (Un)official write anything you want page

 

[cthulufhtagn]

dropsy

isn't that just edema? don't you see that all the time? wish granted!

 

[dorian gray]

lol yeah, it is. Dropsy sounds better though

 

[MajestikMøøse]

I supplement my diet with alcohol.

No megadosing here.

 

[einride]

the worst discussion

 

[dorian gray]

Jerry, is your mansion in the hills burning?

 

[Thanatopsis123]

I've was just recently told I'm being laid off for two months.

Nice.

 

[lurch70]

I just picked up a book I had lying here for over 2 years written by Trump and the Rich Dad dude ... the first 60 pages are basically a 100% prediction of what is happening in the economy RIGHT NOW. It really has me up in arms.
Down to the GM bankruptcy (showing how SINCE 198 FUCKING 4 they were spending more than they earned) and how eventually because of the entitlement mentality we have in this nation (not just the average schomes, but even the bigwigs) they will ask for a handout from the gov't.
They write in this 2006 book how most companies that will be in real trouble WILL expect a handout first and foremost before even trying to admit bad financial decisions they created KNOWINGLY over decades.

Fuck this has me pissed ... going to read more.

"Wall Street is the only place where people arrive in a Rolls Royce to get advice from people taking the subway"

 

[lurch70]

and ... sorry to hear about your situation Thanatopsis ...