The unofficial "Framing Armageddon" appreciation thread...

As a fan from the beginning, I had very high (ok, HUGE) expectations for this disc.......and they've been held up quite nice. I can freely admit that I was never much of a Ripper fan, and I actually found him to be somewhat of a distraction on TGB (with the exception of the Gettysburg trilogy). However, FA has a different "feel" to it. Whether or not you are a fan of his (I've become one) there is no denying he sings his ass off on this disc. The music seems to suit him better on this than on TGB.

It just gets better with each spin, with tracks like Ten Thousand Strong, When Stars Collide, The Clouding, and A Charge To Keep easily leading the way.

Bottom line: will most likely be my disc of the year.
 
Love the album. I could do withuot the in-between song tracks even though they add to the story and concept. The Clouding is an awesome song - I wish the entire track was comprised of just the heavy part repeating over and over. I enjoy most of the standard songs, aside from A Charge to Keep, which I really can't get into.

I'm looking forward to part two, and then finally maybe just a plain old kick ass Iced Earth cd that isn't conceptual in nature for a change.
 
I'm warming up to it. I liked it right away, but some of the songs sounded very similar to me. I've listened a few more times, and it is growing on me. I still have to give it more time. I suspect that it won't ever be in my top 3 Iced Earth albums. It doesn't reach the magnificence of the Gettysburg trilogy, which is among the best the band (or any other band) has ever done. Still, it is Iced Earth, and Ripper, although not Barlow, is very good. I'm also looking forward to part 3.

Steve in Philly

P.S. - Obligitory Zod add-on: Can't wait to hear a preview of Pt 3 during Iced Earth's encore while headlining PP IX.
 
My thoughts on this album are still somewhat mixed, but it's definitely gotten better with additional listens. As a big Barlow fan who thought that TGB was OK but not great (aside from the Gettysburg Trilogy which is awesome), I didn't have terribly high expectations for this album.

I think part of my problem with this disc is that there are too many interludes and they're too long, and I also don't care for the first "real" song of the album. So for me the first four tracks are pretty disappointing which didn't exactly set the stage for a positive overall impression on the first few listens. IMHO the middle part of the album is the best, basically tracks 5-12. I still think there's too much filler in there though; and while some may like that it builds the concept story, to me the story/concept is of no interest.

I do think this album is a big step of from the main TGB album. I think they're using using Tim's voice much more effectively. I like it better when he sings in the middle keys and keeps the "Judas Priest" mode to a minimum; that high pitched wailing just gets on my nerves when it lasts more than a few seconds. I really like the heavy layering they use on some of the choruses, which gives those songs a more epic feel. For me 10,000 Strong is easily the standout track; the driving guitars and big chorus are a perfect example of this album at its best.

I think the slower parts of the album are weak because the vocals sound more overwrought than emotional; I can't help but imagine what some of those songs would sound like with Barlow, because Tim just doesn't pull it off. For instance, The Clouding is pretty good once the heavy part kicks in, but the first part of the song is just boring.

Production quality is very good, I'm really happy with the sound quality of this disc even when listening on a good set of headphones.
 
jkohn said:
I think part of my problem with this disc is that there are too many interludes and they're too long, and I also don't care for the first "real" song of the album. So for me the first four tracks are pretty disappointing which didn't exactly set the stage for a positive overall impression on the first few listens. IMHO the middle part of the album is the best, basically tracks 5-12. I still think there's too much filler in there though; and while some may like that it builds the concept story, to me the story/concept is of no interest.
Click to expand...
That's pretty spot on with my thoughts on this disc.

Britt
 
I'm gonna qualify this by saying that I've only listened to it once so far (today, in fact).

So far it really hasn't impressed me positively. There are a few things that annoy me about it, and nothing that really jumped out at me that makes me like it. However, it's kinda to be expected that with only one listen - and a casual one at that - that I would appreciate it fully.

The things I don't like about it are:
* IMO the sound is almost exactly like the first disc of tGB. While I liked tGB - both discs - I'd be disappointed if Iced Earth sounds like that from now on. (see the rest of my gripes)
*What's with all the choral choruses? Older Iced Earth used this to some extent, but it wasn't nearly so prominent. Then again, with Matt Barlow it wasn't needed. I get that the songs are about a race of people. Barlow didn't need a chorus to convey that.
*The Judas Priest screams. I was listening to one song and I thought, "OMG. He sound like somebody else. Who? I know. Judas Priest." If I wanted JP, I'd be listening to JP.
*Lack of emotion. I don't think Ripper really conveys much emotion in this disc. Granted, I don't know what the songs are about, so maybe I'm way off here, but I didn't hear anything other than pretty straightforward Ripper. However, as with tGB, I do hear his range, which can be great. I think the tendancy was toward one end of his range though (pretty predominantly).
*Iced Earth going thrash. Listen to the heaviest songs on SWTWC, then listen to this disc. SWTWC is heavy in a plodding kinda way, whereas this disc is heavy in the "we can play faster than you" kinda way. IMO, that kinda detracts from the melodies of the songs.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post, and that's okay. Keep in mind though, that I've only listened to it casually, and only once. I'll be giving it a more thorough listen when I get the chance (with an open mind).
 
Yippee38 said:
*Iced Earth going thrash. Listen to the heaviest songs on SWTWC, then listen to this disc. SWTWC is heavy in a plodding kinda way, whereas this disc is heavy in the "we can play faster than you" kinda way. IMO, that kinda detracts from the melodies of the songs.
Click to expand...

Ever hear Night of the Stormrider? Plenty of their older material was fast, thrashy and heavy. I think it's nice to see them throw some big, fast riffs around again.
 
Yippee38 said:
I'm gonna qualify this by saying that I've only listened to it once so far (today, in fact)

<edited out gripes for space>

....Keep in mind though, that I've only listened to it casually, and only once. I'll be giving it a more thorough listen when I get the chance (with an open mind).
Click to expand...

and that's exactly what you need to do. I kinda blew through it the first time myself. But with each spin, I opened my ears and eyes to the sound and the story. I'm definitely liking this disc more than I imagined I would. And I'm a Matt Barlow 'mark' if there ever was one.

You also mentioned this disc is heavy in the "we can play faster than you" kinda way. Well I don't hear that myself. Many of the melodies get stuck in my head (in a good way) throughout the day. This is something that has not happened to me with an Iced Earth disc since Burnt Offerings. Seriously.

Trust me, Yippee, open your mind and give it a couple of more spins and then come back and let us know how you feel. I think you'll like it more than you want to admit.

I did. :kickass:

~Hoyt.
 
Yippee38 said:
I'm gonna qualify this by saying that I've only listened to it once so far (today, in fact).

So far it really hasn't impressed me positively. There are a few things that annoy me about it, and nothing that really jumped out at me that makes me like it. However, it's kinda to be expected that with only one listen - and a casual one at that - that I would appreciate it fully.

The things I don't like about it are:
* IMO the sound is almost exactly like the first disc of tGB. While I liked tGB - both discs - I'd be disappointed if Iced Earth sounds like that from now on. (see the rest of my gripes)
*What's with all the choral choruses? Older Iced Earth used this to some extent, but it wasn't nearly so prominent. Then again, with Matt Barlow it wasn't needed. I get that the songs are about a race of people. Barlow didn't need a chorus to convey that.
*The Judas Priest screams. I was listening to one song and I thought, "OMG. He sound like somebody else. Who? I know. Judas Priest." If I wanted JP, I'd be listening to JP.
*Lack of emotion. I don't think Ripper really conveys much emotion in this disc. Granted, I don't know what the songs are about, so maybe I'm way off here, but I didn't hear anything other than pretty straightforward Ripper. However, as with tGB, I do hear his range, which can be great. I think the tendancy was toward one end of his range though (pretty predominantly).
.
Click to expand...

Even though I liked Framing Armageddon, I completely agree with this.
 
Yippee38 said:
*The Judas Priest screams. I was listening to one song and I thought, "OMG. He sound like somebody else. Who? I know. Judas Priest." If I wanted JP, I'd be listening to JP.
Click to expand...
Clearly Ripper's primary influence is Halford. However, even though I grew up on Priest, I prefer Ripper.

Yippee38 said:
*Lack of emotion. I don't think Ripper really conveys much emotion in this disc.
Click to expand...
Granted, Ripper's voice doesn't drip with emotion the way Matt's did. Matt was able to convey sorrow in a way that few can. Ripper tends to convey emotion with intensity. I think the more you listen, the more clear that becomes.

Yippee38 said:
Granted, I don't know what the songs are about, so maybe I'm way off here, but I didn't hear anything other than pretty straightforward Ripper.
Click to expand...
Try sitting with this disc once, with headphones on and lyrics in hand, and see if it doesn't make a huge difference.

Yippee38 said:
*Iced Earth going thrash. Listen to the heaviest songs on SWTWC, then listen to this disc. SWTWC is heavy in a plodding kinda way, whereas this disc is heavy in the "we can play faster than you" kinda way. IMO, that kinda detracts from the melodies of the songs.
Click to expand...
Completely disagree. "Framing Armageddon" showcases a ton of different tempos, all of which seem well chosen, based on the content of the story. Again, try sitting with this disc with headphones and lyrics, and see if it doesn't change your perspective.

Zod
 
General Zod said:
Clearly Ripper's primary influence is Halford. However, even though I grew up on Priest, I prefer Ripper.

Zod
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BLASPHEMY!!!!!

I grew up on Priest as well, and I prefer Scheepers. :lol:

New Religion freakin' smokes!!! I'm so glad I picked one up from Ken at PPUSA.
 
This reply is in response to noone in particular in this thread; but I think that it is one of the most amazing albums ever! Not just by I.E. either! But, by ANY band! I think that I.E. is one the MOST criminally underrated
bands in the world today! They take so much shit from so many people, including some of their supposed fans! Which I will never undersatnd!??? Jon has taken this band from NOTHING, & made it this far w/out selling out like AlternacrapicA did! Jon's no whore for the industry like Lars is!

They are completely original, & have always had amazing players in the band & the lyrics are just as powerful! Yes, they have gotten better over the years, as well as the music has too! W/practice comes refinement!

They to me, are still far better than any band out there. I think that the band just keeps getting better & better w/each CD! I love all of their CD's, except for the 1st one, for some
of the lyrics just are lame, like "Colors". & I've never been a HUGE fan of "Burnt Offerings"
either. That CD sounds a little confined to me. But, w/that exception, they keep putting out album after album of amazing material; that I just feel surpasses the previous!

Do I miss the soulful passion of Matt Barlow's voice? Hell yeah! Do I think that Ripper sucks?
Hell no! While I do feel he limited his vocal range somewhat on "TGB", he has certainly graduated from that on the newest CD! He most definitely impressed me as far as that goes.

Yes, the remake of the 'Wicked Trilogy' wasn't anywhere's near as good as the original. But, that was only for the single! Don't like it? Only play the full CD then!

But, w/the exception of the basis of the
'Something Wicked' storyline, the new CD is all original!

All-in-all, I think that this CD is very deep, & explorative both musically, & vocally, & also
in the sense of the storytelling aspect too.

Jon & the band did not hurry through this CD at all, & it shows! I don't think it has to be 200 MPH all the time just to be a great
'METAL' record! When it comes to doing an album of this type & magnitude, it has to have so many layers, much like a great novel, or movie, or even a symphony written by some of the great classical composers.

Maybe it's me? But, I think that the flack that this CD, & the band for having made it is unwarranetd, & also, just little close-minded as well. As I get older, I can appreciate such nuances & subtleties in music way more than I ever could as a teenager when I first discovered Metal! Which si why I can appreciate bands like I.E., & Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Sym X, EverGrey, etc. The unusual thinsg they add to their music, just separates them from being 'just another metal band!'
 
Can you figure out the story from the lyrics?? I haven't set down and looked at the words while listening yet. I've listened to it a half dozen times and I like the thickness. I LOVE the chorus stuff. And I think it is some of Tim's best work.

Chris :headbang:
 
SavaVIDude said:
Can you figure out the story from the lyrics?? I haven't set down and looked at the words while listening yet. I've listened to it a half dozen times and I like the thickness. I LOVE the chorus stuff. And I think it is some of Tim's best work.

Chris :headbang:
Click to expand...
I was reading the lyrics last night while giving it a spin, and I think I picked up a decent chunk of the story. Understanding the story would surely help some, but not enough to make me really want to play the heck out of this disc. It just hasn't clicked in a big way, and I've listened to it enough to kind of figure it never will.

Britt
 
I though the disc was pretty average at first. None of the melodies really stuck with me and I thought it was just a boring album. However, over the past 2-3 weeks, I've really warmed up to it and it's making its way into my top 20 for the year.
 
EJC_74 said:
I think that it is one of the most amazing albums ever! Not just by I.E. either! But, by ANY band! I think that I.E. is one the MOST criminally underrated bands in the world today! They take so much shit from so many people, including some of their supposed fans!
Click to expand...
haha, it's so true

EJC_74 said:
As I get older, I can appreciate such nuances & subtleties in music way more than I ever could as a teenager when I first discovered Metal! Which si why I can appreciate bands like I.E., & Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Sym X, EverGrey, etc. The unusual thinsg they add to their music, just separates them from being 'just another metal band!'
Click to expand...
well said :)

I dug Framing Armageddon from the start, but it truly got better with each listen, and stayed that way for quite a while. There's just something about Jon's style of playing that entrances me like no other guitarist...is it the tone, the speed, something else...all of the above? Not sure, but hey, why analyze it to death :D I was careful not to try to overbuild my expectations for this one, but now that I've heard it, I'm not going to be able to maintain that kind of understated anticipation for Pt. 2 :loco:
 
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