This forum is getting watered down

[vile_ator]

This is an amazing forum. I have learned so much here. And recording forums in general, rule. But I am a bit disapointed lately. So many questions to Andy about silly stuff that he either wont, or should not have to answer.

Too many newbies that are asking stuff of Andy that they can find out in much better places. And too many questions about techniques that if answered really woudlnt help the questioner because they have to get through the basics of recording and learning how to listen first.

May I suggest a newsgroup called rec.audio.pro Its been around for many years. Its frequented by writers of lots of recording magazines and has thousands of posts by amateurs, all the way up to seasoned pros. That forum is a great place for people that are getting into recording to ask all their basic questions and to do searches that will turn up answers.

You can find it by going to Deja.com. Give it a try. I learned a great deal of stuff about recording there about 8 years ago when I was really doing a lot of research. And its still there and its still great.

I havent heard Andy complaining about anything here and maybe nothing bothers him. But maybe it does, I just wanted to say what bothers me.

Most of the guys that have been here up till about a year ago know what subects are appropriate here. I guess Id say, if you cant find it at rec.audio.pro or other mainstream recording forums, and it pertains to modern metal and/or Andy Sneap productions, then ask it here.

I would like to know what other regulars here think about my pompus attitude.

Colin

 

[James Murphy]

hi Colin,

well, it's a public forum so it would be pretty hard to enforce or even get universal voluntary compliance, much less agreement, in regards to subjects that are appropriate and those that are not.... or even who is allowed or should ask certain types of questions. having said that i mostly can feel where you are coming from.

one thing that has led to many repeat threads over the last months has been a lack of a working Search function. hopefully that will work again here soon.

but another big part of the problem is this false perception that you can just buy some software, an interface, ask a few questions on a forum and blag some cool samples , then buy a POD XT and magically you will be a recording engineer. i have definitely noticed the phenomenon you mentioned of "newbies" (don't really like that term as it seems unnecessarily derogatory) seem to have little concept of WHEN they need to learn things.... putting the cart before the horse, to cop a an old metaphor, and asking questions about advanced techniques well before getting any solid grounding in basic recording. it's not "criminal" though... curiosity is human nature... so i suspect this trend will continue no matter what you are i or even Andy says about it.

it does however warrant mentioning and airing out, because i think many here need a little perspective.... in reading this forum and more often in private IM conversations with many of the members here, i sense a kind of desperation... maybe impatience is a better word... to become a great engineer and rise to the level of Andy, Fredrik, insert your personal fave here.

the thing that needs to be realized is that it takes TIME. Andy has taken 15 years to reach the spot he is at now... and you will find that any good engineer who's body of work everyone here admires will have a similar story... years of applying himself diligently to learning the craft and MOST importantly, though most often overlooked, years of consciously working on developing their ears... learning how to listen and what they are actually listening for. you can just about teach a monkey how to operate Neundo, or Sonar, etc.... anyone can learn that. anyone can also bum samples and download drumagog. none of these things makes one a recording engineer.

in fact, nothing makes a great engineer but time... put in to learning and mastering fundamentals, and put in to developing the ear. that's the hardest part... and the part that too many seem to gloss over.

bottom line, the forum is open... anything is fair game to ask (not saying that this means it should be)... but if you don't understand implicitly how a multiband compressor works, for instance, and exactly what result each and every control on one has in terms of how the various settings react and interact with the program material, then copying Andy's C4 settings isn't going to do squat for you.

eveybody and their mom wants to be a recording engineer these days it seems.... good luck everyone.

 

[006]

While sometimes I have the same feelings as you with some of the repetitiveness that goes on here from time to time, I see why it goes on. I bet I would get lost counting all the "help with guitar tone" or "check this mix please" posts. But one thing you have to think about with this forum is that it's not meant to be experience specific. The search feature for this forum has been dead for a while and just started working again thanks to a recent update, so I'm going to assess that that could've been the culprit for the past months.

This forum is a really great place for newbies to ask all the questions they can ever ponder, and get great answers. I wish that when I started to learn engineering years ago that I knew about this place. A lot of people these days that get into engineering behind a console are into metal music. And places like that newsgroup are more general. It makes a lot of sense to me for newbies to want to come here and ask their questions, regardless of how senseless you or anyone else thinks it is.

Just like anything else, there are people that just have the ability to catch on easily by themselves, and others may have the desire to learn but lack the natural ability and need help along the way. What better place to ask for answers than the forum of a well established guru in the industry? Again, I do see your point, and every once in a while, I feel the same as you. But I also realize that this is after all just an online forum and it's not a big deal. Anyone can post here, it's not limited to people who pass an engineering test in order to post here. While that would be ridiculous...it would be nice sometimes...lol.

One way to maybe help out would be for newbies to instead of addressing their posts to Andy, making it a post that is not so specific. What happens anyway is that the regulars answer the poster, and Andy may just chime in after about 8-12 replies that have already answered the question(s), and even then it's usually a humurous remark at that.

I'm not saying that Andy doesn't help people who ask for his advice, but he's so busy most of the time that by the time he gets around to answering questions that are floating around, they've already been beaten to death with a stick and then some.

Anyway, I'm talking too much. To say all this in a nutshell, I think this place was meant to be a haven for anyone into recording or metal, from newbies to seasoned pros. If I'm right about that, then it's doing a very good job of it. My .02 cents.

~006

 

[James Murphy]

I think this place was meant to be a haven for anyone into recording or metal, from newbies to seasoned pros.

actually it was meant to be an Andy Sneap fan discussion forum. what it has become is another matter entirely.

 

[Matt Smith]

Gotta say, I totally agree with vile_ator and James...

 

[Impy]

I think most of the people here agree, but like James said, it IS a public forum.

Hopefully the search function will minimize the guitarsound this and drumsamples that threads since there's hundreds of em.

 

[Benny H]

Well I'm a 'n00b' experience wise. But I'd like to think I conduct myself appropriately.

(I was 'Degenerate' until a few days ago)

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I am not sure whether the group vileator is referring to includes myself. I've been in this forum for well over a year yet I still ask some fairly "noobie" questions, and I really am taken aback by these comments. I understand where you're coming from, but check this out: I'm a part time engineer. I engineer metal for young bands who don't have money. The rest of the time I'm a banker. I'll never be Andy. But if you see the results I give these young bands, and how happy I make them for 1/5 of what they'd have to pay at a "real" studio, I think you'd take some of these comments back. I don't have time to spend hours learning the basics of recording. I ask simple questions and get very direct answers. Thanks again by the way to everyone who has helped me out (and yes, with the search capability back, you'll see less of these threads from me). This forum is the ONLY one that allows me to do what I do. And if that means that you have to dwindle through a couple noobie threads, then tough, man, sorry about that.

Granted, there are some exceptions and stuff does get put up that probably shouldn't, but I think that it's really up to Andy to do the policing here.

And my mom actually does not want to be a recording engineer, believe it or not. I had to double check with her on that.

 

[James Murphy]

I am not sure whether the group vileator is referring to includes myself. I've been in this forum for well over a year yet I still ask some fairly "noobie" questions, and I really am taken aback by these comments. I understand where you're coming from, but check this out: I'm a part time engineer. I engineer metal for young bands who don't have money. The rest of the time I'm a banker. I'll never be Andy. But if you see the results I give these young bands, and how happy I make them for 1/5 of what they'd have to pay at a "real" studio, I think you'd take some of these comments back. I don't have time to spend hours learning the basics of recording. I ask simple questions and get very direct answers. Thanks again by the way to everyone who has helped me out (and yes, with the search capability back, you'll see less of these threads from me). This forum is the ONLY one that allows me to do what I do. And if that means that you have to dwindle through a couple noobie threads, then tough, man, sorry about that.

Granted, there are some exceptions and stuff does get put up that probably shouldn't, but I think that it's really up to Andy to do the policing here.

can you say "over-reaction"? obviously these were very general statements.. and i stand by mine... no one was attacking you, so your defensive posture suggests that you don't have as much confidence in how you do your thing as you say you do., or rather, in how you conduct yourself on this forum, to be more specific. relax... ask your questions, get your answers.. no one is trying to "police" that. you read entirely too much into this thread.

 

[James Murphy]

by the way genius... the only thread you ever put up that bothered me at all was the "critiquing andy" one... .so, keep on keepin' on.

c'mon... yer ma called me last week for for some EQ tips.. you ain't foolin' anyone.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

so your defensive posture suggests that you don't have as much confidence in how you do your thing as you say you do..

Well, right, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I just don't think people should be scared to post here because they're noobies.

 

[James Murphy]

Well, right, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I just don't think people should be scared to post here because they're noobies.

and that's what i was getting at ... i NEVER SAID THEY SHOULD BE. reread my post.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

by the way genius... the only thread you ever put up that bothered me at all was the "critiquing andy" one... .so, keep on keepin' on.

c'mon... yer ma called me last week for for some EQ tips.. you ain't foolin' anyone.

Good, no hard feelings then--and I was SURE to put a disclaimer on that thread, if you remember. haha. I think sometimes I have communication issues and come off a little harsher than I mean to. What are ya gonna do, ya know?!

 

[gibson5413]

I am sure I have contributed to this threads origin. I started posting here within the last 6 weeks but have been lurking for a while. Part of the reason I posted here was because there seemed to be a group of more experienced musicians that could offer a wealth of valuable information. I have no intent to become an engineer (I am married, a father of 4 children and quite happy in my profession). I have however become very interested in home recording. My intent in posting rough clips is to get a different perspective and a fresh pair of ears. I don't feel the need to fish for compliments. I do, however, want to get objective recording opinions (I've got thick skin).

I will be more careful to search out previous posts to answer my general questions. I may not be able to contribute much but I sure learn a lot by lurking. Either way, great forum!

 

[J the TyranT]

When UM was run by Mark back in the day, there were forums that came and went from various bands, and also misc. things having to do with the music scene, such as Travis Smith's forum.

I used to BS with Mark, and Andy in IM or email about tidbits here and there, and just kind of suggested to one another that Andy could maybe get a forum... and if Im not mistaken, I think Andy at the time was like: "For what? You think anyone would want to talk to me about something" or something along those lines...

Either way, its cool.. the OT topics can just be skipped right over if you dont want to read it... not every show on your favorite channel is something you're going to love, either... just the way it is. All in all, it is cool to see this forum getting a lot of good use, and to see the fan support not just from the front of the industry... but in the background also.

So, I dont think its really an issue to get off topic here and there... as long as it isnt ALWAYS off topic and people start getting shitty about things...

J

 

[Razorjack]

hi Colin,

well, it's a public forum so it would be pretty hard to enforce or even get universal voluntary compliance, much less agreement, in regards to subjects that are appropriate and those that are not.... or even who is allowed or should ask certain types of questions. having said that i mostly can feel where you are coming from.

one thing that has led to many repeat threads over the last months has been a lack of a working Search function. hopefully that will work again here soon.

but another big part of the problem is this false perception that you can just buy some software, an interface, ask a few questions on a forum and blag some cool samples , then buy a POD XT and magically you will be a recording engineer. i have definitely noticed the phenomenon you mentioned of "newbies" (don't really like that term as it seems unnecessarily derogatory) seem to have little concept of WHEN they need to learn things.... putting the cart before the horse, to cop a an old metaphor, and asking questions about advanced techniques well before getting any solid grounding in basic recording. it's not "criminal" though... curiosity is human nature... so i suspect this trend will continue no matter what you are i or even Andy says about it.

it does however warrant mentioning and airing out, because i think many here need a little perspective.... in reading this forum and more often in private IM conversations with many of the members here, i sense a kind of desperation... maybe impatience is a better word... to become a great engineer and rise to the level of Andy, Fredrik, insert your personal fave here.

the thing that needs to be realized is that it takes TIME. Andy has taken 15 years to reach the spot he is at now... and you will find that any good engineer who's body of work everyone here admires will have a similar story... years of applying himself diligently to learning the craft and MOST importantly, though most often overlooked, years of consciously working on developing their ears... learning how to listen and what they are actually listening for. you can just about teach a monkey how to operate Neundo, or Sonar, etc.... anyone can learn that. anyone can also bum samples and download drumagog. none of these things makes one a recording engineer.

in fact, nothing makes a great engineer but time... put in to learning and mastering fundamentals, and and put in to developing the ear. that's the hardest part... and the part that too many seem to gloss over.

bottom line, the forum is open... anything is fair game to ask (not saying that this means it should be)... but if you don't understand implicitly how a multiband compressor works, for instance, and exactly what result each and every control on one has in terms of how the various settings react and interact with the program material, then copying Andy's C4 settings isn't going to do squat for you.

eveybody and their mom wants to be a recording engineer these days it seems.... good luck everyone.

There couldn't be a truer word spoken. In London there are thousands of 'engineers' who, to be honest, don't know the next thing about recording. Some of these guys even make a living out of it and they couldn't even tell you what proximity effect is, or how to set a compressor properly let alone line up a tape machine.

 

[sorceron]

tape machine?? whats that

 

[Razorjack]

tape machine?? whats that

I thinks it's one of those things they used to record on before mini-disk, you know round black things with scratches all around them

The worst thing is, I've actually been asked that question seriously before!! Or "Why would I want to use a cassete to record onto, let alond a 2inch one!! What could you fit on there?" That was a question posed by a fellow student on the 2nd year of my BSc Audio Systems degree at university!!

 

[sorceron]

I thinks it's one of those things they used to record on before mini-disk, you know round black things with scratches all around them

The worst thing is, I've actually been asked that question seriously before!! Or "Why would I want to use a cassete to record onto, let alond a 2inch one!! What could you fit on there?" That was a question posed by a fellow student on the 2nd year of my BSc Audio Systems degree at university!!

ahah. funny, ive met plenty of students like that here. i recently had to explain the latency on with a 001 to a "pro tools certified" graduate of the conservatory here. he had no idea about the buffer...

 

[AmirH]

I actually agree with James completely. I've been guilty of that in the past and it's actually kind of amazing to me how different things sound now then they did when I first started recording(from thinking you sounded close to pro to never being happy with your sound) It only makes sense that the more your ears develop the more skilled you become. I'm just glad everyone here is so patient and willing to help. Hopefully this forum will get right back on track when the search function comes back permanently.