This HAS to be a joke

PHalse proFit

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Jan 1, 2003
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i dont know if anyones already seen this, but its fucking rediculous, i dont know wether to laugh or puke
http://www.metalforjesus.org/

im not even gonna touch their sound file section, i dont wanna taint my ears with that shit, but it was kind of amusing reading shit like this:
"PRAY THAT GOD WILL USE YOUR CD'S
And pray for Cd's you have lent to non-Christian friends. Pray that God will touch them and convince them that they are sinners and need to repent and accept Jesus in their lives."

god damn, if that isnt a blatent attempt at brainwashing i dont know what is

PS - they have a forum if anyone wants to leave any nasty messages

(no offence to any christians btw)
 
well sorry man
i spent 8 years of my childhood being brainwashed by an extremist christian cult (it was called the ICOC, check it out if you dont beleive me), i wont go into it, but it was a really fucked up experience, just the word christian makes my brain turn off, so naturally i find that shit really fucking intrusive, especially when i see it infecting the music i like. I still have alot of friends that are christians, and they are good people, despite the fact that their fucking deleusional and completely brainwashed, im just not a person who discriminates against people for their beleifs, i dont really care if that makes me a pussy in your eyes.
anyways, no hard feelings eh

youve got to admit, that site is pretty fucked
 
Demonic Rapture said:
Right....





OK.
just because you beleive someone is brainwashed and delusional doesnt mean your discriminating against them, i know i said it a bit harshly
in christianities case, its something their opressive religion has forced upon them, if anything i feel sorry for people whove had christianity inflicted on them.
anyway, im just perpetuating a pointless argument, so im gonna shut up now

*returns to direct connect*
 
That site did not seem like a joke site, unfortunately. Pretty silly stuff(2It`s cool to be a christian!"), but what the heck, let them do what they want. Shadow Gallery, one of my favourite bands, happen to make some awesome music with moderately preaching lyrics, and even though I`m an atheist, I don`t care. My favourite keyboardist of all time, Richard West of Threshold, is a devout christian and plays piano at church. I have sporadic contact with the aforementioned West and Gary Wehrkamp of Shadow Gallery, and they are both great persons and musicians. Why I should even bother considering railing on them because of their beliefs is beyond me. If anyone here(Dying Sun?)is considering coughing up some anus.com bullshit in retort to my post, don`t waste your time.
 
Meh, who cares really? If there are Christians out there who are into metal, then so much the better - if the media would focus on those guys for a while rather than all the so-called Satanists who are really just twisted teens taking the idea of rebellion to its (il)logical conclusion, then maybe metal in general would become a little more acceptable to the general public, and we'd have a bit less of the censorship, stigma and derision that we have to put up with now.

Harp Heaven, on the whole I agree with your post, although calling it 'pretty silly stuff' is a little amusing to me. What's more 'silly', a Christian metal site or, say, Glen Benton claiming he'd kill himself at the same age that Christ died... and then failing to do so. Or even branding himself with an upside down crucifix. It's no more ludicrous, when you think of it.

Contrary to popular belief, I feel religion is not a cause of human conflict and suffering. Blame for that lies squarely in the nature of mankind. Religion, like metal, rap, violence in the media or anything else, can become an easy scapegoat for acts which, when looked at from a wider perspective, simply confirm the fact that mankind fucks itself over for no better reason than because it can.

In case anyone is wondering, I'm an atheist myself.

Anyway, in conclusion, good luck to those guys at the Christian metal site. They're no threat to anyone, they're not harming anyone, and maybe they'll get a few people who otherwise would have shunned our music as 'demonic' and 'sinful' into the glorious world of metal.

In case there are any Christians reading this, I'd recommend Soul Embraced, Living Sacrifice, Figure Four, The Agony Scene and Norma Jean.
 
dill_the_devil said:
Contrary to popular belief, I feel religion is not a cause of human conflict and suffering. Blame for that lies squarely in the nature of mankind. Religion, like metal, rap, violence in the media or anything else, can become an easy scapegoat for acts which, when looked at from a wider perspective, simply confirm the fact that mankind fucks itself over for no better reason than because it can.
So true \m/

Back to the subject, who really cares? You shouldn't let your old experiences block your mind.
if that isnt a blatent attempt at brainwashing i dont know what is
Brainwashing? Just because they are spreading their beliefs it means they are attempting to brainwash you?
I still have alot of friends that are christians, and they are good people, despite the fact that their fucking deleusional and completely brainwashed, im just not a person who discriminates against people for their beleifs, i dont really care if that makes me a pussy in your eyes.
Believe it or not, those people have minds and they can think for themselves. Of course, i'm not leaving out the fact that a lot of people believe in religion blindingly, but that doesn't mean that each christian is brainwashed. The only difference between you and a christian, is that they beleive in a god and you don't.

I'm not looking for an argument, i'm pointing out some things that seem you've missed.
 
Ultimate_Symphony said:
Of course, i'm not leaving out the fact that a lot of people beleive in religion blindingly, but that doesn't mean that each christian is brainwashed.

Thanks for agreeing with me there mate - glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks religion gets an unfair amount of blame for the sins of man, so to speak.

Although I would say one thing about your post - surely everyone believes in religion blindly? To the best of my knowledge, there is still no evidence that a deity exists, nor has there been any confirmed sighting or solid evidence of a divine presence either on Earth or outside of it - which would suggest to me that all religion, no matter what the denomination, is based entirely on blind faith - or, perhaps more accurately, hope. The hope that something or someone is out there, looking after us - or maybe that even if they're not looking after us, that there is some reason for our suffering - and the hope that if we live a good life, when we die, we go to somewhere better.

Therein lies my personal problem with religion. The belief that if we live a pure, sinless life, we may go somewhere better when life is over. To that, I say - what if we're wrong? What if all that comes after death is a long period where our lifeless corpses are given over to the worms, and all our self-restraint and abstinence and 'purity' results in naught but a lifetime wasted?

If people need religion to help them find a purpose or a meaning in life, then that's fine by me. I respect that and, in fact, encourage it, because lifestyles that encourage peace and goodwill to our fellow people are few and far between in these selfish times. However, I prefer to live by my own commandments. I live my life the best way I can, treasuring every moment, never forgetting that my very existence is the result of a happy chance. I experience life to the fullest of my ability, but always within boundaries I have set for myself (I smoke cigarettes and weed and drink but will never, ever do coke, heroin or anything like that, for instance). I try as best as I can to enrich the lives of my friends and acquaintances, an do my best not to harm others. Obviously, being human, sometimes I fail in those pursuits, but I accept failure, take it as experience, and carry on wiser than before.

I expect nothing more at the end of my days than to become food for the worms, but I hope that when that day comes, as my last breath passes my lips, I will be able to retreat into the darkness from whence I came reflecting upon a life enjoyed to its fullest while its time lasted.

However, I could be talking utter bollocks, as I am now posting under the influence of four pints of Scrumpy Jack cider.... but that's my whole, unadulterated take on the religion debate.
 
PHalse proFit said:
well sorry man
i spent 8 years of my childhood being brainwashed by an extremist christian cult (it was called the ICOC, check it out if you dont beleive me), i wont go into it, but it was a really fucked up experience, just the word christian makes my brain turn off, so naturally i find that shit really fucking intrusive, especially when i see it infecting the music i like. I still have alot of friends that are christians, and they are good people, despite the fact that their fucking deleusional and completely brainwashed, im just not a person who discriminates against people for their beleifs, i dont really care if that makes me a pussy in your eyes.
anyways, no hard feelings eh
youve got to admit, that site is pretty fucked

You misunderstand.

The reason you are a pussy is because you went off on a pro-Christian website professing Christian beliefs, and then said "(no offence to any christians btw)"

I myself don't give a shit about Christianity and if that offends Christians, fuck them.

Don't try to be abrasive AND friendly. It just makes you look wishy washy and destroys the credibility of what you are trying to say.
 
dill_the_devil said:
Therein lies my personal problem with religion. The belief that if we live a pure, sinless life, we may go somewhere better when life is over.

I was cheering for you until you hit this snag. This is totally wrong. Coming from the Christian viewpoint, anyone can enter heaven. Good deeds are not an automatic invitation to Heaven. No one is sinless or pure.

It is that solid belief that gets you through the Gates, not leading a life full of giving, helping and being a good person.

:)
 
Dreamlord said:
I was cheering for you until you hit this snag. This is totally wrong. Coming from the Christian viewpoint, anyone can enter heaven. Good deeds are not an automatic invitation to Heaven. No one is sinless or pure.

It is that solid belief that gets you through the Gates, not leading a life full of giving, helping and being a good person.

:)

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

That may not be an exact quote, but it's probably close enough for my purposes. If that rich man had a solid belief in God, why would it be any easier for a poor man to get into Heaven than him?

I don't want to get into an argument, really - in fact, I'm flattered that you, Dreamlord, were rooting for me for some of the way into this discussion - you have always come across to me as one of the more intelligent posters on the UM forums.

However, my perspective on religion remains - however much more conservative perspectives on Christianity may profess that I don't have to admit I'm a sinner to get to Heaven (NB: I'm not talking about you Dreamlord, merely other people I've run across), the number of evangelists I've seen imploring me to 'REPENT! REPENT!' either on the streets or on the television, have convinced me otherwise.

Christianity itself has become a disorganised, splintered religion - full of contradictory beliefs, quotes and teachings. Other religions are heading that way. To me, spirituality is a nonsense. There is only the now. How we choose to live our lives now is all that matters.

You can live entirely selflishly, disregard the needs of others and live entirely for one's own pleasure at the expense of all others.

You can live selflessly, and devote your life to the wellbeing of others, at the expense of your own.

Or, you can do what I do. Live as you would, but help those you care about as much as you would help yourself. Live for your own fulfilment, but not to the expense of others. Our actions do reflect on others - none of us are self-contained and independant of others.

I'm not saying that mine is the right way, or that anyone else's is the wrong way. Merely that the path we choose is just that - our own choice,

Make sure you choose wisely.
 
dill_the_devil said:
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

That may not be an exact quote, but it's probably close enough for my purposes. If that rich man had a solid belief in God, why would it be any easier for a poor man to get into Heaven than him?

I think you pretty much nailed it. And if I'm not mistaken, that quote was said by Jesus while giving one of his many speeches. Jesus was asked by a rich man what he (the rich man) needed to do to enter Heaven. Jesus replied something to the effect of "Give all your money to the poor, and follow me." Then Jesus said what you quoted above.

Notice Jesus did not say that it was impossible for a rich man to enter Heaven. Jesus spoke in parables, so I would think that he was doing the same here. The point is that rich people are so stuck to their money, that it consumes them. The desire to gain more money becomes their only desire, and in the process, God/Jesus become second. That also brings to mind this quote by Jesus- "Man cannot serve two masters".

I don't want to get into an argument, really - in fact, I'm flattered that you, Dreamlord, were rooting for me for some of the way into this discussion - you have always come across to me as one of the more intelligent posters on the UM forums.

Other than the part that I replied to, I agreed with everything you said.

However, my perspective on religion remains - however much more conservative perspectives on Christianity may profess that I don't have to admit I'm a sinner to get to Heaven (NB: I'm not talking about you Dreamlord, merely other people I've run across), the number of evangelists I've seen imploring me to 'REPENT! REPENT!' either on the streets or on the television, have convinced me otherwise.

Christianity itself has become a disorganised, splintered religion - full of contradictory beliefs, quotes and teachings. Other religions are heading that way. To me, spirituality is a nonsense. There is only the now. How we choose to live our lives now is all that matters.

I agree that Christianity is splintered. Paul (basically the father of Christianity) never taught that Christianity should be in different denominations. He taught one Religion, not Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Mormon, or Jehovah Witness. He taught Christianity. The church (by that I mean all denominations) has become a counter to what it is suppose to teach. The Church has become a corporation, and all about profits. The Pope is a corrupt figurehead and he is no more a Christian than me.

The contradictions come from people, not the Bible. One person interprets a verse one way, but the next person reads something totally different from the same verse.

Being a Christian has become something that people tell themselves to make themselves feel better about their life. It is a fashion, a trend just like the latest Gap jeans or Abercrombie t-shirt line.

True Christians don't have to tell themselves they are a Christian. They know it.

I will stop there as to avoid becoming "preachy".
 
Just out of interest, Dreamlord - would you consider yourself a Christian? If not, do you believe in a God? I'm honestly not needling at this point, I'm genuinely curious. You seem to have a significant knowledge of Christianity (easily more so than me - my studies have mainly been spent on Satanism and Wicca, due to my interest in "alternative" religions").

Asides from that, I totally agree. Human interpretation is what has splintered the message of the Bible. Although I do not believe the Bible is the word of God, I do believe it was the most well-meaning and humanitarian text ever written. My personal belief is that it is fiction - a more detailed version of Aesop's Fables, if you please, intended to give moral guidance - and that it was taken too literally, and later corrupted by Man into a belief system.
 
Dreamlord said:
I was cheering for you until you hit this snag. This is totally wrong. Coming from the Christian viewpoint, anyone can enter heaven. Good deeds are not an automatic invitation to Heaven. No one is sinless or pure.

It is that solid belief that gets you through the Gates, not leading a life full of giving, helping and being a good person.

:)

Actually, the infer seems to be that you can be a complete dick 100% of the time and simply "believe" and it'll all work out, but it's not that simple.

The fact is, you take the type of person who jumps in and out of belief in God, the person who has never been extremely moved and become a completely better person due to that faith, - that person has never truly had the faith.
If a person truly accepts the truth of Christ he is changed for the better - forever. Therefore, it is not like just a simple get-out-of-hell-free card the way some view it. You will know a man by his fruits, and by his love you will be able to tell him as a true believer. With true faith comes change and the light of God shining through a person, no matter what ups or downs he goes through.. everybody who generalizes a Christian based on a bad experience, remember this.

And I am far from brainwashed.
 
dill_the_devil said:
Thanks for agreeing with me there mate - glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks religion gets an unfair amount of blame for the sins of man, so to speak.

Although I would say one thing about your post - surely everyone believes in religion blindly? To the best of my knowledge, there is still no evidence that a deity exists, nor has there been any confirmed sighting or solid evidence of a divine presence either on Earth or outside of it - which would suggest to me that all religion, no matter what the denomination, is based entirely on blind faith - or, perhaps more accurately, hope. The hope that something or someone is out there, looking after us - or maybe that even if they're not looking after us, that there is some reason for our suffering - and the hope that if we live a good life, when we die, we go to somewhere better.

You're right, no one can prove that a god exists. Religions are beleifs afterall, only one can hope that a deity exists. What I meant with the line in question is that some christians (or religious people for that matter) don't follow the usual ''God exists and there is no more discussion'' mentality. Some of them do consider the possibility that there could be no god... therefore, they don't follow their religion blindingly, they are always looking for proof if their god does or does not exist.

(btw I might respond to the other posts, I still haven't read this thread thoroughly)