"Christian" and "black" are opposite concepts, a song can't be both simultaneously just as it can't be both fast and slow at the same time. "Black" = night, Satan, evil, sin, sex, blasphemy as Venom posited and the second wave appropriated for the establishment of the genre. The only reason unblack metal even exists is *because* black metal is so strongly associated with these black ideas. Unblack metal isn't an extension or evolution of black metal but a reaction against it. Putting it in the same category as black metal with no acknowledgment of this marginalizes the subgenre far more than giving it a unique label.
Unblack Metal
- Thread starter AchrisK
- Start date
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
Black =/= Satan, actually. To represent Black as such is rather limiting; if one can take a rather broader view of Black as sinister, uneasy, mysterious, magical, evil etc etc, then these are things that can easily be expressed through a Christian view point. If you disregard the lyrical content, then the difference between Christian Black Metal and Satanic Black Metal is what ?
To distill inclusion into a genre based solely on lyrical grounds seems to me to be fairly absurd. I don't think that any of these so called "unblack" bands are actually going to convert any lost souls to the cause through their songs.
Btw, nice going on the Meads album in your sig.
To distill inclusion into a genre based solely on lyrical grounds seems to me to be fairly absurd. I don't think that any of these so called "unblack" bands are actually going to convert any lost souls to the cause through their songs.
Btw, nice going on the Meads album in your sig.
Rabid Headbanger
New Metal Member
Funny thing about Christianity, As it tells you to "Avoid the apearance of evil", wouldn't it then be against the rules to throw on corpse paint, leather and spikes and start shrieking into a microphone?
Black = Satan actually, a correlation established by many of the formative black metal bands and strengthened by thousands of their followers. There's nothing limiting about it, practically speaking.
That's kind of the entire point of unblack metal.
Absurd or not, that's the reality of the situation.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
Formica:
I think we argue at cross purposes. I just think that the whole purpose of calling a black metal band an "Unblack" metal band merely because of their religious views seems patently absurd. That aside, I am cognisent that this is the reason people have coined the phrase. I think people are too much in love with the romantic ideology of a "scene" that has more to do with posturing and posing than with any real opposition to christianity.
I think we argue at cross purposes. I just think that the whole purpose of calling a black metal band an "Unblack" metal band merely because of their religious views seems patently absurd. That aside, I am cognisent that this is the reason people have coined the phrase. I think people are too much in love with the romantic ideology of a "scene" that has more to do with posturing and posing than with any real opposition to christianity.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
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Religion's emphasis on submission and passive acceptance is inherently incompatible to the founding ideals of Black Metal, even in Venom's music which was largely tongue-in-cheek Satanism. It's not necessarily so much about God and Jesus and Satan as it is about rebellion and free thought and submission and blind acceptance. Black Metal had a unique evolution as far as Metal genres go in that the lyrical (or rather ideological) component of the greater work as a whole has become as essentially defining as the music itself, and this is why Christian Black Metal does not exist in ideology, though one may argue that that Unblack Metal is, aesthetically speaking, indeed "Black" Metal, which would be patently obvious and essentially a moot point.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
If it is patently obvious and a moot point, then why are people arguing so vehemently against "Christian Black Metal" as a handy label ? It seems to me that any Christian that is in a black metal band is about as far away from obedience and submission to their religion as they are likely to be able to get, without doing something illegal.
The phrase was actually coined by Horde - Unblack metal is what the first Christian black metal band called themselves, and Anonymous did not consider his music to be black metal. As many bands have followed this example, and as the unblack metal scene exists separately from the black metal one (labels, zines, tours, fan base to a large extent), it is perfectly reasonable to make this distinction.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
Ach, to a greater extent I'm an outsider to this argument having little interest or knowledge about anything other than a cursory skim over "normal" black metal, before even beginning on unblack/christian black metal.
So, in essence, I'll shut my fucking pie-hole.
So, in essence, I'll shut my fucking pie-hole.
skeptik
Member
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Because music isn't merely about the aesthetic nature of the sounds produced, but rather the work as a whole, of which the ideological background is an integral component. The aesthetics of Black Metal are merely a vehicle of expression, not the sole defining trait of the genre.
Or something.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
...or a bunch of cunts in make up, no bass player and some twat called "ulf" on a casio. Or something [/troll.]
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
I was going to say something along these lines, but you made it much more concise than I.
Black = Satan actually, a correlation established by many of the formative black metal bands and strengthened by thousands of their followers. There's nothing limiting about it, practically speaking.I was going to say something along these lines, but you made it much more concise than I.
Hatebreeder
Pizzicato Heartstrings
Just pointing out that you were supporting a point that had previously been shown to be tenuous if not totally incorrect.
Carcassian
Utopian Blaster
I don't think the point was shown to be incorrect, actually; albeit I'm not particularly interested in a "yes it was / no it wasn't" style rebuttal session.
Problems with it include suggesting a limitation on associating Black with Satan without demonstrating one and the entire concept of taking a "broader view" of black (metal) instead of looking at it as it actually is.
goddamn it carcassian, don't you know that Black metal iz a11 about teh balance between disharmonic misanthropic meanderings and enlighted descents into utter darkness which comprises of teh fascination with the demonic and occult and sings praises of teh satanic rites t0 break teh bonds of teh conformed masses?
:hailsatan:
:hailsatan:
