Blodørn
Member
I acculy thought of my self as christian when I was a child.. But then I woke up and found out that I was a viking, and vikings don't belive in god.
Viking mythology and all that goes with it
- Thread starter Celtik Militia
- Start date
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Sure they do. Just not the pacifist one 
And no, I do not think the Christians have exclusive rights to the word "god". It's not my fault most of them can't remember their deity's proper name.
And no, I do not think the Christians have exclusive rights to the word "god". It's not my fault most of them can't remember their deity's proper name.
Grundig Avkom
Son of the Aesir
Sure they do. Just not the pacifist one
And no, I do not think the Christians have exclusive rights to the word "god". It's not my fault most of them can't remember their deity's proper name.
trues so true
Knarfi
Yaba-daba-doo!
Tyra
Member
That's an anachronysm, but I know what you mean. Just remember that some Scandinavian areas were converted in the 700's, and those people still went viking well after that. And the Christians are the ones that raised something like 90% of the rune stones that many think of as representing viking culture. Many people were both christina and heathen at the same time for a very long part of our (pre)history. But, like I said, I know what you mean - you're thinking of the viking spirit, and in those terms I agree with you fully.Blodørn;6126834 said:
Knarfi: Shhhhhhh, for fuck's sake! Don't you know his name is too holy to utter? You're not supposed to, it's blashpemy you know. Now you'll go to hell for all eternity (unless, of course, you repent and pay a fat sum of money to some church...then you might stand a fighting chance. Either that, or you could just convert the the Old Faith, then you could just blame it on Loki and we'd all understand exactly what happened.)
Blodørn
Member
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
Tyra
Member
Don't ask me, I'm a raging heathen. It's in the Bible, so I suppose that means you can write it. I just know some Christians say it's too holy to speak it. I was just kidding anyhow.
TheLastWithPaganBlood
Nordman
No the jews aren't allowed to say it, so I supose that means it's in the Old Testament. But whatever, as I'm writing this I'm screaming at the top of my lungs JAHVE JEHOVA JESUS JIGGA and so on.
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Just because I'm obsessed with original languages.... it's Yahweh and Yeshua (Jehova and Jesus after the Aramaic->Greek->Latin->English translations).
... Loki made me do it.
... Loki made me do it.
Grundig Avkom
Son of the Aesir
Knarfi
Yaba-daba-doo!
Yeah well Valhall is probably "hell" in christian eyes so i dont mind..
Also, i dont like to blame Loki
I feel for the dude, he might be a little screw-up sometimes, but he get's the blame for EVERYthing.. I say blame Canada!
Now I've got an interesting question, it's half mythology and half archeology. I've found a shop that sells replicas of "viking amuletts" (replicas of archelogical findings): http://www.vinland-shop.de/
I have a question about these, the first one was found in Uppland (Sweden), the second in Ribe (Denmark)
They both show Odin, who (I guess) is mainly recognized by Hugin and Munin, sitting on his head. At least that's what the text on the site sais.
He seems to have two eyes though ... so my question is ... why? Is it common that Odin still has both eyes on historic illustrations? I would think that the main attribute (the most recognizable) of Odin was, that he has just one eye? Then maybe Hugin and Munin and Gungnir and Sleipnir ... and then maybe two wolfes ...
Which makes me also wonder, why (in the first amulett) he carries a sword (not a spear) and two "whatever" in the other hand?
There is also this amulett, found in Birka:
which (they say) shows a dancing warrior, and it's somehow connected to adoration of Odin. It looks a lot like the one found in Uppland though ...
Is there an answer apart from "we don't know, so we took WHAT we know and started guessing that MAYBE ..."
I have a question about these, the first one was found in Uppland (Sweden), the second in Ribe (Denmark)
They both show Odin, who (I guess) is mainly recognized by Hugin and Munin, sitting on his head. At least that's what the text on the site sais.
He seems to have two eyes though ... so my question is ... why? Is it common that Odin still has both eyes on historic illustrations? I would think that the main attribute (the most recognizable) of Odin was, that he has just one eye? Then maybe Hugin and Munin and Gungnir and Sleipnir ... and then maybe two wolfes ...
Which makes me also wonder, why (in the first amulett) he carries a sword (not a spear) and two "whatever" in the other hand?
There is also this amulett, found in Birka:
which (they say) shows a dancing warrior, and it's somehow connected to adoration of Odin. It looks a lot like the one found in Uppland though ...
Is there an answer apart from "we don't know, so we took WHAT we know and started guessing that MAYBE ..."
Actually (as far as I know) "hell" is derived from Hel ...
Yeah well Valhall is probably "hell" in christian eyes so i dont mind..
Tyra
Member
I think I might have to divide that question up into sections, because it requires an answer that is not so simple.
1.The "horns". These are often interpreted as horns, and on the older neolithic and bronze age petroglyphs, they generally are, but then they are interpreted as shamen, not Odin. When it has to do with Oden and his warriors, they are just as often interpreted as birds. Birds and birds' heads are an attribute of Odin, and so also of his warriors. As you know, Odin is sometimes depicted with birds wings on his helm, which is a variation on the same theme. The symbols eventually became so known in some areas, that the birds weren't necessarily copied in detail, but just as blobs on the head - everyone knew what they were anyhow, and most of these depictions are so minute in detail that it's really hard to distinguish between one detail and the next. Such finds have been made in Ekhammar in Uppland, in Birka grave 571 and in Ribe, as you pointed out, and others come from Sutton Hoo (UK), Torslunda and Valsgärde (S), Obringheim and Gutenstein (continental Europe). This is what eventually gave artists in the 1800's the idea that vikings wore horns on their helms. They're most likely birds or a shamanistic version with either horns or birds.
2. The eyes. I have two interpretations of this: For one thing, Odin is a shapeshifter. He can be a bird or a woman or an old man. He can have one eye or two when he wants. Secondly, think of it in terms of the fat Buddha and the skinny Buddha. One depics one period of Boddhisatwa's life, the other a later period. There is nothing that says that the depictions of Odin are not the same - some are depictions of him before he gave his eye, some are later. For what it's worth, when I "see" Odin, he has two eyes.
3. His attributes. All the things you list are his attributes. It's the fact that, generally, more then one are present. His eye is just one of them, and not the most common one in the old depictions. He is the god of war, so all sorts of weaponry is associated with him. At the garrison in Birka and at other places associated with Oden, we find axe head pendants, little sword pendants, Gungnir pendants and so on, worn in the same way as a Mjöllnir. They are all weapons. The wolves have to do with his two wolves, Geri and Freki, and his shape shifting - when I "see" him, he is more often than not a large black wolf with red eyes - and also, his personality which is quite wold-like. The birds have to do with Hugin and Munin, but also with his propensity to shape shift into a bird, and also with a very, very old Indo-European shamanistic theme of birds=magic, and he is the god of seid and magic (This even plays into the choice of emblem symbolizing the USA - there was a huge fight about this eagle - some wanted a wild turkey - especially since the eagle from pagan times had symbolized the Anglo-Saxons because of its association with Wotan. At the end of the battle, the eagle won out, and the opposing side lamented on the front pages of the newspapers that "The Pagans have won!"). Some of these themes are so old that they go back to a time well into the Stone Age. Gods with horned helms go back to the Hittites. The Celts had Lugh with antlers and horns on him, and the peoples along the Atlantic seaboard (including Scandinavia) depicted gods with horns and antlers in the Neolithic and Bronzehage. Such depictions can also be seen in Val Camonica in the Italian Alps. This is something old that has survived from a pre-Indo-European stage right into the Iron Age and beyond (hence the American emblem with the eagle, as well as Jesus being symbolized with a bird in some German areas).
4. The dancing God. Many depictions similar to the ones you name follow a theme of either Odin himself or one of his followers dancing. This has to do with ritual. Dervishes reach extasy by dancing, and so do many other peoples in their religious practises. The North American aboriginals certainly do, and it is common in African tribes. In the Neolithic Scandinavian art, and the Minoan and Hettite, there are depictions of women dancing over items associated with ritual, such as bulls and ships. It could be, that Odin by his association with seid, was associated with a dance that was performed both by him and by his followers as part of ritual in his honour. (Which brings me back to my earlier wise-ass stir the pot question of "to whom do the Gods make sacrifice" a few posts ago, because if people danced to be closer to Oden, who was Odin dancing to in order to be closer to? I'm not telling, so you'll have to figure it out for yourselves, that's part of the process or it's a useless process in the first place.)
5. "It looks the same". ...Because it speaks one and the same symbolic language. The "whatevers" in his hand are in many of the other pictures in the same exact pattern, or they are replaced by a sword or another of his attributes. So, yes, it's a good observation. Women are depicted with drinking horns, Thor with his hammer, Frey with his dick erect and this is Odin, who has the most attributes, with the possible exception of Freya. Both of them are the "biggest" gods and gooddesses of their families, so it goes to follow that they should have more attributes.
Did I answer your question?
1.The "horns". These are often interpreted as horns, and on the older neolithic and bronze age petroglyphs, they generally are, but then they are interpreted as shamen, not Odin. When it has to do with Oden and his warriors, they are just as often interpreted as birds. Birds and birds' heads are an attribute of Odin, and so also of his warriors. As you know, Odin is sometimes depicted with birds wings on his helm, which is a variation on the same theme. The symbols eventually became so known in some areas, that the birds weren't necessarily copied in detail, but just as blobs on the head - everyone knew what they were anyhow, and most of these depictions are so minute in detail that it's really hard to distinguish between one detail and the next. Such finds have been made in Ekhammar in Uppland, in Birka grave 571 and in Ribe, as you pointed out, and others come from Sutton Hoo (UK), Torslunda and Valsgärde (S), Obringheim and Gutenstein (continental Europe). This is what eventually gave artists in the 1800's the idea that vikings wore horns on their helms. They're most likely birds or a shamanistic version with either horns or birds.
2. The eyes. I have two interpretations of this: For one thing, Odin is a shapeshifter. He can be a bird or a woman or an old man. He can have one eye or two when he wants. Secondly, think of it in terms of the fat Buddha and the skinny Buddha. One depics one period of Boddhisatwa's life, the other a later period. There is nothing that says that the depictions of Odin are not the same - some are depictions of him before he gave his eye, some are later. For what it's worth, when I "see" Odin, he has two eyes.
3. His attributes. All the things you list are his attributes. It's the fact that, generally, more then one are present. His eye is just one of them, and not the most common one in the old depictions. He is the god of war, so all sorts of weaponry is associated with him. At the garrison in Birka and at other places associated with Oden, we find axe head pendants, little sword pendants, Gungnir pendants and so on, worn in the same way as a Mjöllnir. They are all weapons. The wolves have to do with his two wolves, Geri and Freki, and his shape shifting - when I "see" him, he is more often than not a large black wolf with red eyes - and also, his personality which is quite wold-like. The birds have to do with Hugin and Munin, but also with his propensity to shape shift into a bird, and also with a very, very old Indo-European shamanistic theme of birds=magic, and he is the god of seid and magic (This even plays into the choice of emblem symbolizing the USA - there was a huge fight about this eagle - some wanted a wild turkey - especially since the eagle from pagan times had symbolized the Anglo-Saxons because of its association with Wotan. At the end of the battle, the eagle won out, and the opposing side lamented on the front pages of the newspapers that "The Pagans have won!"). Some of these themes are so old that they go back to a time well into the Stone Age. Gods with horned helms go back to the Hittites. The Celts had Lugh with antlers and horns on him, and the peoples along the Atlantic seaboard (including Scandinavia) depicted gods with horns and antlers in the Neolithic and Bronzehage. Such depictions can also be seen in Val Camonica in the Italian Alps. This is something old that has survived from a pre-Indo-European stage right into the Iron Age and beyond (hence the American emblem with the eagle, as well as Jesus being symbolized with a bird in some German areas).
4. The dancing God. Many depictions similar to the ones you name follow a theme of either Odin himself or one of his followers dancing. This has to do with ritual. Dervishes reach extasy by dancing, and so do many other peoples in their religious practises. The North American aboriginals certainly do, and it is common in African tribes. In the Neolithic Scandinavian art, and the Minoan and Hettite, there are depictions of women dancing over items associated with ritual, such as bulls and ships. It could be, that Odin by his association with seid, was associated with a dance that was performed both by him and by his followers as part of ritual in his honour. (Which brings me back to my earlier wise-ass stir the pot question of "to whom do the Gods make sacrifice" a few posts ago, because if people danced to be closer to Oden, who was Odin dancing to in order to be closer to? I'm not telling, so you'll have to figure it out for yourselves, that's part of the process or it's a useless process in the first place.)
5. "It looks the same". ...Because it speaks one and the same symbolic language. The "whatevers" in his hand are in many of the other pictures in the same exact pattern, or they are replaced by a sword or another of his attributes. So, yes, it's a good observation. Women are depicted with drinking horns, Thor with his hammer, Frey with his dick erect and this is Odin, who has the most attributes, with the possible exception of Freya. Both of them are the "biggest" gods and gooddesses of their families, so it goes to follow that they should have more attributes.
Did I answer your question?
Blodørn
Member
Knarfi
Yaba-daba-doo!
@Tyra: I just feel a little bit guilty for stealing your time
Yes, that did answer my question (and I guess some others, too). Thanks a lot !!!
BTW: I can't get rid of the feeling that (... ok, this sounds real silly) Hugin and Munin are watching over me(?) Where I live, I've never seen ravens or crows. Maybe once a year, but they never stayed. But since I started to ... "trust in Odin", there seem to be some around wherever I go ... sometimes it seems like they show up just to greet/watch/accompany me. They stay for a while and then dissapear again. And I'm usually alone when this happens, and they go before someone else is coming.
Yes, that did answer my question (and I guess some others, too). Thanks a lot !!!
BTW: I can't get rid of the feeling that (... ok, this sounds real silly) Hugin and Munin are watching over me(?) Where I live, I've never seen ravens or crows. Maybe once a year, but they never stayed. But since I started to ... "trust in Odin", there seem to be some around wherever I go ... sometimes it seems like they show up just to greet/watch/accompany me. They stay for a while and then dissapear again. And I'm usually alone when this happens, and they go before someone else is coming.
Tyra
Member
I hear that from almost everyone who have recently decided to "trust" Odin. I don't know if that's just because we become more aware that they're there or because there is a connection between Odin's folk and them, as they say. I'll tell you what, though - I was raised in a household where both Christian and Traditional faiths were taught, so I guess I don't really remember beginning to trust, but when I moved into this house, about seven years ago, it did not have a harg. I've never been able to connect well by having a place of worship indoors, but I tried, since our property in the back was a mess, and I wanted to clean it up before I put up a harg. We just simply do not have ravens here, because we're in a city, but the day I raised the harg in my yard, a small two-tiered stone one, a large raven, the first one I've ever seen in this city, landed just above the harg and stayed there for long enough for me to realize that he was probably there for a reason. The same day, a big raven swooped down in front of my husband on his way home from work, too. That was weird to me, because I had not asked for it to be there or tried to speak to Odin or left anything that would attract a bird. So now I do leave stuff for those specific birds, shiny things for them to bring back to their nests. And cheezies. They like those for dipping in water, so I leave some of that, too. Whatever they mean, they're incredibly intelligent birds, and so are their cousins, the crows, so we should probably respect them for that alone, if nothing else.
Grundig Avkom
Son of the Aesir
Nice Tyra.. and also a question.... what made you lean more towards Norse beliefs than the Christian's ???? other than the obvious fact that it makes more sense than the first...
