Watch Andy mixing an album ?

[chadsxe]

If you wanna buy a DVD of "How To Mix Like ____". Go ahead. People sell those things to people like you just to take your money. You still ain't gonna learn shit. You can turn every single knob to the exact same settings as Andy, or anybody else for that matter, and it still won't sound like Andy's stuff. There are many awesome engineers and producers out there, and if you're serious about this you'll find out where they are and get a three dimensional education instead of just dreaming. Hey, if you wanna keep dreaming then don't listen to me.

You think I'm being a jerk when I'm actually helping you.

Sigh. You are missing the whole point. I think most of us (at least I hope) understand that plugging and chugging someone elses method is not going to work. The first thing that should be told to any person who is starting out is this very point. But none the less I do find value in understanding as many TECHNIQUES as possible. Sure a "DVD" might end up being the biggest rip off in the world but then again it might not. For example, if I never seen this forum before and was watching Andy mix and he turned to me and said "Sometimes when I feel like the low end in the guitar is jumping to much I like to try and tame it with a C4 because I think it sounds more natural then notching it out.", the DVD would have paied for itself right there and then. Its that type of advice I am after. Not "DO this with the guitar & DO this with the BASS". The more techniques I have to try out myself the better I feel I will end up. And that is just my opinion...

 

[metalkingdom]

Sigh. You are missing the whole point. I think most of us (at least I hope) understand that plugging and chugging someone elses method is not going to work. The first thing that should be told to any person who is starting out is this very point. But none the less I do find value in understanding as many TECHNIQUES as possible. Sure a "DVD" might end up being the biggest rip off in the world but then again it might not. For example, if I never seen this forum before and was watching Andy mix and he turned to me and said "Sometimes when I feel like the low end in the guitar is jumping to much I like to try and tame it with a C4 because I think it sounds more natural then notching it out.", the DVD would have paied for itself right there and then. Its that type of advice I am after. Not "DO this with the guitar & DO this with the BASS". The more techniques I have to try out myself the better I feel I will end up. And that is just my opinion...

Last time I checked, Andy's techniques are discussed in detail right here on this forum. There are quite a few guys here that are getting great guitar sounds because of it.

Everyone can have an opinion, but educated opinions are the only pertinent ones. And recording schools are the biggest ripoff ever.

 

[chadsxe]

Last time I checked, Andy's techniques are discussed in detail right here on this forum. There are quite a few guys here that are getting great guitar sounds because of it.

Everyone can have an opinion, but educated opinions are the only pertinent ones. And recording schools are the biggest ripoff ever.

I guess you missed my comment about "IF I NEVER SEEN THIS FORUM". There is no sense to this argument anymore. As long as were all happy with what we are doing then its settled. Like I said I still respect your opinion but none the less it is an opinion.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Recording schools a rip off? You really think that? I mean yes I will say that exspirence > education. But the stuff you take away from school is good info. How many newbs would know anything about the equal loudness principal, hearing fatigue, proximity effect, etc. Thats good shit to learn, and school is an excellerated way of learning it. Now I agree doing is always better so as far as teaching how to mix etc, techniques and suggestions are all I would want to take away. But IMO school is not a waste of my money (actually the goverments lol)

 

[~BURNY~]

Don't argue with MK guys... It's going to be endless.

 

[Gnash]

It was just a joke to begin with. Most people on these forums are passionate about music. I've been driven since I was a kid about recording music. Starting with the little, dumb, dual cassette decks. A "behind the scenes" look at ANY recording situation is REAL interesting to most people on these forums. I just bought the making of "Aja" by Steely Dan! I love Steely Dan! And I appreciate the fact, someone took the time to break it down. Awesome! Andy goes ABOVE AND BEYOND the call of duty. Literally, giving away his trade secrets. We're just as big a fans of producers/engineers as we are of the bands they work with. I take pride in the fact that, I know I don't know it all, and I am willing to learn from watching other people, always honing my skills, in every facet of my life. Denying your mentors is just fucking childish.

 

[metalkingdom]

Recording schools a rip off? You really think that?

I don't "think" that. I know that. Beside the fact that there were no shortage of talented engineers BEFORE the droves of recording schools popped up, for $5.95 a month you can get the very same info at your local newsstand that you'd pay $10k for at one of these schools. Many community colleges offer recording classes for nearly free if you're poor enough to qualify. That's what I did. And it cost me $130 a semester. I also have volumes upon volumes of books and magazines (Mix, EQ, Recording, SOS, etc.) that I've collected through the years and often reference. Those recording schools usually have like a 10% or lower percentage of graduates who go on and actually do something. Most of those people would have done it regardless. It's all about heart. Schools don't teach that. My best friend (who is a Grammy-nominated engineer) went to Full Sail. He'll be the first one to tell you that it's complete bullshit.

 

[metalkingdom]

Denying your mentors is just fucking childish.

Who's denying anything? Andy HIMSELF told you guys that watching him mix wouldn't be fun. And the next post was - "I disagree." I tried to explain why watching someone mix wouldn't "be the experience of a lifetime", and recommend a path that would actually do something for your career - but got flamed for it. A DVD isn't gonna make you an engineer. School will only make you an unpaid intern with a shot at becoming a runner, but it ain't gonna make you an engineer. You gotta be in the studio.

When I was younger, every time I had a revalation I'd wonder "why didn't someone tell me this before?", but now I know why. :Smug:

 

[sparkyness]

For once I'm almost agreeing with MK ....While I think you can probably learn a lot of good theory from those schools and work with some gear you'd normally not get exposed to, I know for a fact that it's not likely to get you a job in a pro studio if that's what you expect to get out of it when you're done.

While I've not worked as an engineer at top facilities, I've done a hell of a lot of bass sessions in them over the years and also interned in a great studio back in the day. The general consensus from the dudes who ran the studios I recorded in is that everyone starts at the bottom making coffee and vacuuming the floors whether they've gone and done a course or not. In fact, the guy who ran the place I interned at point blank refused to take on engineers who'd done courses as they'd expect to be tracking big bands right away rather than assisting the experienced engineers and learning the ropes.

One of my favourite producers, Flood got his name from being an over enthusiastic tea boy when he first started out....

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Yes I go to school for free currently also, whats your point it's still good info. And I am not denying that doing is better, as that is what I do.

 

[Gnash]

MK-I know you mean well. When we express ourselves on these forums, sometimes our thoughts get misconstrued. Obviously, you have paid your dues, as I have. I wouldn't know what "Full Sail" is like. I know my engineering classes (paid for with student loans) were invaluble.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I quit the school I went to. I had access to a hellova lot of equipment, and gor to record a great many bands I'd never be able to work with otherwise. But it was so expensive that I couldn't justify it anymore.
i've learned more from this forum than I ever did at that school. I met my girlfriend there though.

So, yup. I've gotta agree with MK on this one.

 

[metalkingdom]

One of my favourite producers, Flood got his name from being an over enthusiastic tea boy when he first started out....

I drove 2 hours each way every day from San Diego to L.A. and back just to clean bathrooms - FOR FREE. After the studio owner had seen my ass up in the air - while scrubbing the toilet at 9am - one too many times, he fired a worthless runner and made room for me on the staff making minimum wage. I left my wife and kid (I have three now) back in SD and got a studio apartment that was two miles away from the studio - which I walked to. After six months of fetching Fatburgers and rolling papers, 100+ hour work weeks - not to mention working on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day, I moved up to 2nd engineer. That's when it became hard work. It got even harder once I went freelance. At least it paid better.

I had already been a fulltime engineer in San Diego for 3 years prior to starting all over in Los Angeles.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

This was totally off-topic on the As I Lay Dying thread so I created a new one, fight here...

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I wouldn't call this a fight. Damn MK! That shows that your dedicated!

 

[metalkingdom]

This was totally off-topic on the As I Lay Dying thread so I created a new one, fight here...

Lol. Thanks, man.

 

[scorpio01169]

really though MK is a little off the point...although he may find it boring...some of us may find it fascinating, watching Andy mix. it'd almost be like watching a performance, and you say you KNOW recording schools are a waste of time, well thats a matter of opinion not fact

 

[Keiffer]

I wouldn't care to watch a mix, but I would like to hear him take a journey through his thought process.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Exactly.
Mixing is not about turning knobs, it's knowing what you want to hear and how to obtain it, and unless you're besides Andy while he's mixing and dare to ask questions (which you wouldn't do cause you don't want to disturb a pro, and anyway it's too cold in this studio...). I'm guessing the only thing most of you would learn while watching Andy working (unless you never read anything from this forum and his usual advices) would be: "Ok, good, he's just doing the things I do and most people do... only better".

 

[Familia><Publica]

For once I'm almost agreeing with MK ....While I think you can probably learn a lot of good theory from those schools and work with some gear you'd normally not get exposed to

Thats exactly how these courses should be treated, as a means to work with gear you wouldnt normally have the opportunity to use. I didnt have a clue about the analogue domain and i certainly couldnt afford any of the nice analogue gear ther is out there, but was still itching to learn this side of engineering.

Going to music tech college has allowed me to get hands on experience and to me, thats made it all worth it. Next year its protools training, i'd never have that opportunity anywhere else and its not like i can just buy myself an hd protools rig just because i fancied learning how to use it. I do however feel sorry for all the suckers that believe they'll get a job out of these types of course.