We all live dreaming, so... post here your feelings, your thoughts, your dreams!

[Alfred]

Originally posted by rahvin
despite what most of us might think, embarrassing cell-messages and shameful pick-up lines are not what authorities refer to when they talk about the 'plague of alcoholism in society'.

I nevertheless tend not to have a high opinion of sudden acts made under alcoholic (or drug-produced, or mental-shock produced, whatever) mind alteration. It surely can't be compared with the dameges coming from driving/performing surgery/doing anything which requires strong concentration under the effect of alcohol, but anyway I strogly doubt it ever produces any good effect on the medium-long term (nor very often on the short one, too).

as for me being impatient, well, i am but i'm not. i can wait forever, but the other side of the fence is still beyond my reach.

Unless it's a conceptual (and therefore unlinked from time) impossibility, I fear I quite fail to see your point :/

Alfred (whose cellphone is out of charge and charger got lost somewhere)

 

[Siren]

@PapiMelon: I've done some stupid and embarrassing things while drunk myself, and I tell you it was not pleasant. But controllable amounts of alcohol sometimes work fine with me.
Anyway, I'm starting to admire your self-confidence and strenght of will. It needs quite some of it not to get dragged by friends to do things you don't want (ie alcohol, drugs, cellphones ) and to keep your own opinion


@Final_Vision: Ugh, I'll slap you again
Lack of self-confidence is a common thing in your age. In a couple of years you will be a lot more aware of yourself and your possibilities, of what really matters and what doesn't. Trust me, on this
Now don't make me start saying how much of a nice guy you are


@rahvin: If your morals cause you to be unhappy, they are not worth shit! (no pun intended ) Morals are supposed to make us and the people around us live together in harmony and reach true happiness. Otherwise I'm afraid they lack true value.
And I don't know what a moth is, but I believe you should embrace the flame that lies within you and let it out to become one with that other flame


@Alfred: Here we have this saying: "Opoios einai e3w ap'to xoro polla tragoudia 3erei" -> "Whoever is out of the dance knows a lot of songs"

 

[rahvin]

@alfred: i don't have such a proud opinion of anything done while drunk, but i don't really see the value of the act or its causes as the point here. if i were to perform surgery i'd surely kill the patient even if i were perfectly sober.
see, it's not about avoiding/increasing the chance of doing bad deeds: it's about keeping the system in balance. though i agree that alcoholism is a worrying disease, i find that doing something exceptionally stupid while drunk is just like doing something exceptionally stupid while sober (well, it maybe comes easier): everybody does at times and there's nothing to be sorry or shameful about.
as for the impossibility, i don't see it as unchangeable, but i can't predict its mutations more than i could predict the weather. my efforts are in vain because the other side of the fence does not react to such efforts. and i have a reasonable belief that some things just cannot be. the better these things are, the less they are likely to turn out right.

@siren: trying to bend my morals to find happiness for myself would mean risk someone else's harm or unhappiness. in most cases i would find such an option worthy of consideration, but not now. now i'm too involved to allow this to happen.
a moth is actually just a small fly. he's willing to embrace almost anything, because he's pretty dumb and has a memory span of about 1 second.
on the other hand, you should consider how the flame feels about it. (i.e., unwilling to become one with whatever fire i might hide).

rahvin. (who's considering moving on to bigger animals: alligators and giraffes, perhaps)

 

[Final_Vision]

@rahvin well I dont mean to make myself out to be a loner either, I have tons of friends, I played on the football team so im friends with all of them as well, which tend to be the "preppy" people. At at any rate, im just very un-confrontational, if i ever found someone im truely open with, im gonna marry em (as long as their of the female specimen ), I mean its just so hard to find anyone that can directly relate to you. I can only do it with maybe 2 of my many friends. Also with a bunch of crazy metal heads on message boards .

@siren ah please no more slaps, i give up , please tell me im a nice guy some more cause it does a nice job of boosting my ego

@Ing hmm, californian sausage, raper, now jewel? Your so sweet Ingy

I wish I had more to add the alcohol topic but.......I never ever drink, or get drunk for that matter

 

[mousewings]

I realize that I have never been drunk, gotten high, smoked, or had sex. I will only do the last one after I get married(a lot probably. hehe.). I do have the very occasional drink, but I am not willing to get drunk, as I could do some really messed up stuff. My behaviour when I am sober is very demented, so drinking may make it worse. Alcoholism and drug abuse run in my family, so I am not going to even try that stuff.

A non-depressing personal thought for me: I actually feel pretty good today (but it could just be the caffeine ). I have a whole week off school, and I just got a few of my assignments back and I am doing great.

The only thing I am missing in my life is a guy. The problem is that I don't find most people around my area attractive. I didn't like anyone from my high school, and don't like anyone from my college. I sometimes wish that I could move elsewhere to find someone who is attractive to me, or that someone cool would move here...

Oh well, I feel fortunate to have people who love and care about me, good marks, and an idea of what I want to do in the future. I am very grateful that I now accept and like myself... with all my faults included.

Thank you to everyone for being cool and allowing others to share their thoughts (even if some of them, like mine, are quite gloomy). I know that this would never be able to happen elsewhere. The bridge people would have ripped me to shreds by now (hehe, I'm now spending a lot less time on the bridge and more here).

That is all for my caffeine-fueled thoughts of the day.

 

[FatherVic]

@the_rest: well I have this stupid_funny behavour by default and I can adapt to the ones already high due to alcohol. But when someone goes a bit further and starts to wreck the meeting (notice I don't say party!!!) I just get down and wanted all the alcoholics around to be punished....but I would have to punish everybody here and well I don't have so many whips!!!

@mousewings....well someday you'll find.....sometimes you even get more and more hooked by someone you didn't ever thought could be that attractive....it's a matter of how you feel about that person!!!!

fathervic (tired and unable to write decent stuff)

 

[Thanatos]

troubled, yet optimistic people in this forum, maybe Thanatos doesnt fit here, he doesn´t have a bit of optimism today.

 

[rahvin]

@mousewings: i reckon it's important to have some sort of structured view of your future, a force that drives you, a clear vision of the big issues. you're... what? 18? a significant other will be like the cherry on top.
at times, when i'm really really drunk, i promise to myself i will only get drunk again after i get married.

@thanatos: try harder. it ain't easy being an optimist, what with the fact that reality sucks big time, nothing ever falls into place and troubles never go away. oh, and i forgot how life's great misteries turn out to be utter crap.

rahvin. (unconscious optimist)

 

[Alfred]

@rahvin: I agree that a certain amount of stupid actions in our whole life (or at least a certain part on the total of our action) is more or less unavoidable (though it doesn't mean the amount in single fields can't be strongly variable, and controllable at a certain exent), but exactly as you say, with alcohol "it comes easier", and I also don't see anything to be shameful about (I don't consider shame such a significant way to feel towards the rest of the world, or such a meaningful cathegory), but most probably do see something to feel sorry about: the consequences of not-enough-pondered acts (I'm talking here about the other side of the matter, of course). I almost never regret something I do in a not-perfectly-lucid state of mind ("Oh, damn, if only I hadn't..."), but it sometimes happens to me to feel sorry or angry about the consequences in themselves ("Oh, damn."). I think I understand the balance issue, but I don't think there's just one balance, nor that all possible balances are equally distant from the.. best possible situation, should we call it this way?
About the impossibility: you say you can't predict the way the whole matter will unfold, and maybe I understand how anxiety-causing this situation can be (it'd probably be for me, at least, if I were at your place), but, just as there's not one balance, so there's not one way to wait forever: many options are usually available, even if strictly staying inside the borders of what means "waiting". Some maybe allow a better understanding of the whole matter (even if, of course, not influencing it... not too much at least, for quantistical mechanics' sake )

@Qsilver: I can't quite see why you should cry for having never posted on this thread. I almost never have, too, mostly 'cuz I don't love too personally-oriented discussions that much. But I don't see the reason to have such a low opinion of yourself and/or the things you write: everyone here tries to express personal feeling/thoughts/considerations in the best possible way (ie simply the more understandable one for anyone else), but this thread is more or less a sharing place, maybe something else, but surely not a contest. So write what you want and feel the way you want and feel to (er... I humbly suggest english might be at least more effective if you wish for many answers, but nothing more ) and don't worry about comparative issues

@Thanatos: this thread (and the whole board, here and there) has got some completely blue-minded posts, sometimes from the same people which are now more happy and jolly: back then they were more or less unhappy, and other people tried to offer their two cents to suggest, ponder, share or even be silent and wish better fortune for the future to them. An optimistic attitude is of course preferable, but for the person who's in trouble, surely not as a pre-requirement to post on this board. Otherwise some people would post here very rarely, and the whole board would be damaged from it. And I think no-one wants it


Alfred (eradicated realist)

Edit: Some small typoes here and there, sorry

 

[rahvin]

@alfred: if you ever post something that long again, i'll change you into a d-shaped, niklas-begging, small gold statue. for a start.

- alcohol/stupid things: everybody might regret something they have done at some point. but i don't see how alcohol should be such a meaningful divider. if you don't drive rolleyes: ), for instance, you'll never end up parking in a no-parking area, but that doesn't affect my opinion about driving, even though street-code breaking 'comes easier' if you drive a car. driving is still useful for getting from here to there, and drinking has just about the same effect.

- balance: now that you've proudly added new variables in the equation, be a sweetie and suss it out yourself: how do we know what's the best possible situation? how do we set all the balances right so that they enforce such a situation instead of spoiling it? (i feel like i'm talking about a very intricate tomb raider level )

- impossibilities: i can live with waiting forever even though the prize escapes me. what i can't live with is the prize escaping me in itself. it's like being faced with the thought that the world might just be a wonderful place for me, and then get stuck with the if only part. any option i might have right now won't change the fact that i'm not going to have what i want. it's certainly very chupi to see something that good does exist, and it really warms my heart to boiling point. but it's definitely un-chupi to be left with the dust.

rahvin.

 

[Siren]

@QSilver: You are welcome to start posting in this thread
It's never too late

@Final_Vision: You are a nice guy you are a nice guy you are a nice guy

@mousewings: For an un-explained reason I just felt the urge to shout that "EVERYONE IN HERE IS SUCH A BIG SOFTIE!!! "
Any ideas why?

@Thanatos: Don't worry, we have the ability to mutate everyone in here into a big sof....errr...optimistic I mean [j/k]
Besides, you can always come back tomorrow when you will be more optimistic

@Alfred: If you ever post something that long again, i'll help rahvin change you into a d-shaped, niklas-begging, small NON gold statue. (I hate gold )

@rahve: about the drinking-driving thing: Alcohol decreases the speed of reflexes (hope i'm expressing this correctly), which means it takes more time for you to react to sudden events when you have drunk. Thus drinking and driving is dangerous no-matter how smart/a good driver/careful you are.

about the impossibility thing: How can you be so sure that the flame on the other side of the wall is unwilling to become one with the fire that you hide? She is on the other side, so you don't really know

For all I know it must be awful to feel helpless and hopeless...
But in the end I don't know which one is actually worse: Knowing what you want and not being able to have it, or being able to have it and not being sure if you want it...?



Siren (eternally uncertain)

 

[rahvin]

@siren:

- drinking/driving: there has been a little misunderstanding there, i think. i never suggested one should drive while drunk, i was talking about driving a car in general. if drink & drive you tend to do much worse than park in a no-parking area, i.e., you crash at full speed in a no-parking area. that was just an example to show alfred that dumb things happen in many contexts.

- flames, fire: flames have a way to expose themselves. when they don't come in the foreground and just stand back sharing their warmth and making you feel right at home, this means they see you as good, valuable, but somewhat transparent. as if you were there just in spirit, as if you couldn't possibly want anything more. this kind of pure, trustful naivety strikes me as moving and worthy of praise, and i could never do a single thing to disturb it.
and... the correct pronoun for flame is 'it'.

- confusion: i try to overstep my being helpless and hopeless trying to help others feel less helpless or hopeless. i know there's confusion. when it burdens your brain too much you should just let go for a while, but when you feel strong enough you should remember to question everything, address every problem in your mind and make a brave effort to sort it out. as you know well by now, we friends are here to help any time.

rahvin.

 

[Siren]

@rahvin:

- drinking/driving: Ok, it was a misunderstanding, now it's clear what you meant

- flames, fire: I can't but respect what you just said.
and...in greek "flame" and "fire" are words of the female gender...

- confusion: Sigh, it burdens my heart more, but anyway. You are probably right, troubling your mind with the same questions all the time wares you off... Support from friends is always valuable and appreciated, the answers though are to be found by me alone. And that's the hard part


Siren

 

[|ngenius]

Ok, let me see. Firstly, there aren't written rules like: "Who post more than X lines will die by a phlegm in his stomach". So, I like so much the long posts, Alfred is allowed to do it without the menace of be changed into a red-haired frog. (I know it deeply, 'cos I started this thread, I'm the boss, do ya feel the power in my robotic eyes? )

@Rahvin "the italian piece of sushi": The best metaphor you can do with the alcohol issue... is a car-driving metaphor? You're the Robin Hood of the metaphores, indeed. But anyway, I think all is more simple: you can do stupid things perfectly when sober, right? So, all is based in the responsibility of assume the consequences of your acts, irrespective of be drunked or sober. The shame is a frequent feeling, even when you're sober (often specially then), the wise behavior is to learn about your shame just such you do it with fears or whatever, each negative feeling could be a lesson to won't stumble anymore with the same rock.


And I don't know exactly what you're waiting for forever, and what in hell is the problem. I think Alfred is right, often there are many ways available, and often there are many ways hidden too. But sometimes, the only feasible and secure way is to wait and see. All depends on each case, obviously, and on each person too. A general explanation of a particular trouble is not possible.

@Siren: Of course, you will find the answers by yourself, but there's some light to help you by our side, your friends. This isn't cheat, you could believe.

@Tanathos: C'mon with that effort, you can do it!



|ngenius (who actually loves his friends from Valencia)

 

[Thanatos]

Well...thanks to the people who took the time to read and reply to my long, meaningful and deep post in this thread, and thanks to those that didn´t reply, I know at least you read it

I´m not a big poster here, and 90% of my posts in this forum are about the funny accent of our spaniard friends (you know it´s in a friendly way Ingenius and FatherVic, the only spaniards I don´t like are those guys at Parchís) or flirting with the greek ladies (do I have to feel remorse for that?) but I think that this is a great place, besides being the message board of my favorite band, it´s loaded with nice and intelligent people, just wanted to let you know that I feel comfortable here, thanks to you and expect some serious stuff from me in the future (maybe ).

Thanatos (whose life sucks a lot more than yesterday but is trying not to feel down).

 

[Blue Moon]

Greetings.

Just a short (yet again) reply to join my voice to the one of Thanatos ; you (we ?) are amazing, a very warm and comfortable place to stay. I read all your posts since my last one with careful attention, and I find great wisdom in your words, whatever your age, whatever your language skills. I appreciate this board a lot, and will learn with a dfinitive pleasure who you are.

There's the poetry thread I'd love to take part in as well, but I have even less time for that right now... I don't know when I'll be able to continue this great discussion we had (or at least infiltrate myself into the next one, like I usually do ), but I'll come to lurk nonetheless just to see what heights y'all will reach with your wits.

Until next we meet, take good care, and drink a lot if its fun for you (here's in one short and unrepresentative sentence what I feel on the subject)...

 

[Thanatos]

@Rahvin: Yeah it´s really hard to be optimistic, but I´m trying, I'm not sure if I'll succeed because I don´t like unanswered questions, and it seems that if a man wants to live a tranquil life, he must either ignore those "questions" or fill the void with dogmatical explanations, both things are usually called "maturing" by common people.

@Alfred: I get your point, I wasn´t very sure about posting here because I don´t like to be in places where I´m not welcome...thankfully it´s not the case here, so I don´t think I´ll taint your optimism with my gloomy mood.

@Siren: Well I don´t know if I´m more optimistic today, at least I´m trying...what were you talking about this big and soft thing?

@|ngenius: I´m trying my friend, I´m trying, Arriba Catalunya !!!

 

[serenla]

I'd like to be 83, to have an alibi not to search for a goal. I'd like to be 83 and stop to wonder (or wondering? i'm writing here , just to find a teacher ).
But i'm only 24. Well, there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel

 

[rahvin]

@siren: in italian 'flame' is of the female persuasion, too. this is not an excuse, though. as for the questions troubling your mind, it's probably better to adopt a more immediate approach, one where you don't get lost in afterthoughts all the time. it's not as if i'd suggest you take something to the limit, just try to ignore the strain and see if the breaking point gets closer.

@|ngenius: i like long posts too, but hearing from alfred almost every day of my offline life is sometimes enough to wish for a little more emphasis on synthesis and simplicity on his part.
the car driving stuff wasn't exactly a metaphor, more like an example, but anyway i get your point about bad feelings and i do agree: we have to learn from experience. unfortunately, 'broadband' feelings like shame or fear or joy or disappointment tend to rise up in many different situations. i can single out specific issues and avoid them, but i'm bound to stumble upon fears and other bad feelings anyway. so my view is that it matters less if they're alcohol- or car driving- induced.
i don't know what the problem in hell might be, either... perhaps central heating? i'm waiting. i hope i'm gonna like what i'll see.

@thanatos: i would never encourage ignoring questions. one should maybe try to answer as best as he can, and then, if he feels there is no answer available, try again. and then, if he feels there is still no answer available, maim everything in sight until the answers start to pour out. and then, if he feels there is still no answer available, break down and cry and plead for answers. and then... oh, i think there has to be yet something else to do.

@bluemoon: thanks for the words of praise. we enjoy your lurking.

@serenla: you didn't tell me you wanted to be part of the show. there's a thread for newbies you might want to visit, btw.
as for alibis, i feel at 83 you have very few alibis for not having reached your goal yet, but you probably don't care at all either way, so you might just say that you wish you were 83 in order to be very very careless, especially 'round the groin region.
stop to wonder = to stop and to wonder
stop wondering = not to wonder anymore
and you're not 24 yet.

rahvin. (digging deep into the pitch black pudding-like maelstrom of the universal soul, whatever that means)

 

[|ngenius]

@Rahvin: To learn from experience doesn't means to defeat all your fears or diseases. If you're drunked, the "bad feeling" (shame, fear...) has a concrete origin (the alcohol) with the same trascendence on its consequences. So, it matters the same, though.

And I know many ways to avoid that central heating (just put yourself on the fridge for two days, you'll see the heating won't appear anymore!!)

@serenla: Oh, the light is, but you still can't see it. Just wait, the wonders like to hide to get some fun.

Btw: Do ya need a teacher?. I reckon Rahve and his central heating could help you. (Evil quote of the day)


|ngenius (suffering a migraine tonight)