May I have your atention please?

Misanthrope

Misanthrope

Latin, NOT Mexican.
Oct 11, 2001
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My House.
www.i-mockery.com
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178273&page=4

This thread is Deron, owner and administrator of the UM comunity, Admiting and supporting his decision to take down a signature just because it contained the image of 2 men kissing each other. He failed ( so far ) to reply to my questions but i think is quite obvious that he supports the behavior and complains of Homophobic posters and disregards Gay posters or people who support them, or simply consider that their sexuality is not something to be ashamed of.

I dont know about any of you guys but this is really pissing me off, if it wasnt for the fact that i was fond of this forum i would have already lived, and i might do if too many people on this forum feel the same way or show too much apathy for this.

For those who are thinking: this does not affects this forum: wrong. As you know a signature is shown on most posts, on any board, so even if no one will persecute you on this forum for having an homosexual picture on your signature ( not porn, just a normal homosexual couple ) if you want to post on any other forum, you might be pointed out and asked to remove it or even get banned from this board too.

Whats the point of hosting this board on a comunity we have to put with things like this? Anyone thinks we should not have to sit here and do nothing when i already talked to a forum member who would gladly host the board for us on another server?

Thoughts ( do not be affraid of strongly disagree with me, im looking for honest and blunt opinions, do not hold back on any comment )
 
Agreed/Signed. I am not here for the board, or for ignorant admins. I'm here for the music baby! :cool: and to spam. So I wouldn't mind having a new admin or changing boards, whatever.. I also read that comment about blacks.
 
Just so you know it would be actually the second board change ( afaik, i wasnt around before ez boards ) so some people, including the band, might not be willing to move yet again. Its still worth informing people about this place.
 
It said R.I.P. Dimebag Darrell on it, Mis, and you know it. He was trying to get a reaction, not make a statement.
 
I dont have a problem with people posting pics of gay dudes in their sig. Who the fuck cares? Lets focus on more pressing matters, like how the fuck am I going to get more beer?

Nick
 
I agree with Deron that attitudes like: "be a rebel for the sake of being a rebel" and "argue for the sake of arguing" and "hey look at me I'm devil's advocate." are very fucking annoying. Should people be free to express themselves and do/say whatever they want? Sure ..but there's no need to abuse it and be a prick. I'm sure whoever had that signature didn't exactly have good/innocent/expressive intentions..
In fact, I think that the person knew clearly that Dimebag supporters would be offended.

I also don't believe that Deron meant it in a bigoted way
MetalAges said:
God forbid someone shows a little respect to other forum visitors
Click to expand...


Personally, I agree with this person:
Black Dragon said:
I also think the number of people who would rather NOT see that kind of thing is higher than the number of people who want to see it.
If it could be accurately established that most people on UM would rather not see that, would it be so out of line to ask people not to have it in their signatures?
Click to expand...
So on that basis, I'm not saying it was necessary or correct of Deron to autocratically moderate to that extent; but I certainly do think that a few of you (including you, Misanthrope) are taking this too far and too seriously.



EDIT:
Nick: Haha, Amen. Both sides give these things too much importance.

I am what I am, I don't need to worry about other people's tastes, sigs, or where they get their jollies from. This is all silly.
 
It isn't that Deron was right at all, its more that they want to throw fits and have their way, all the time. He WAS trying to get a rise out of people, but maybe Deron was slightly out of line. Either way, we may be better off with some of them leaving.
 
You all can read my posts/opinions pretty clear there. I have nothing against gays etc. but I only ask that users of the site, especially ones that post in several of the band forums here, respect all other users here and not use distasteful sigs. It had two guys french kissing with the words "RIP Darrell 196? - 2004".

This is a metal/music community. I don't have issues with 99% of the sigs on the site until someone decides to not take into consideration other users. I don't know what else to say on the subject that I didn't post there or here. I answer any and every question put to me until it becomes obvious that people just start arguing for the sake of it. Hope this clears things up.
 
I was aware he was trying to get a reaction, it's why I have no issue with you forcing him to remove it. They're trying to make it all one sided to play you as the bad guy. It still needs to be taken into account they cause most of the trouble on UM.
 
Well then you come down to what your definition of distasteful is. I for one have found out that most of what you do is going to offended people on some level, so let's keep the freee speech and accept that people have different life styles, believe in different things,etc,etc.

Nick
 
MagSec4 said:
I agree with Deron that attitudes like: "be a rebel for the sake of being a rebel" and "argue for the sake of arguing" and "hey look at me I'm devil's advocate." are very fucking annoying. Should people be free to express themselves and do/say whatever they want? Sure ..but there's no need to abuse it and be a prick.
Click to expand...

That is the price for freedom of speech, and a mature person would just select what they like to consider, so dont think its very mature to say "oh you're just a rebel", that is not the issue, thats an excuse because the fact is that any non-rebel person could have been pointed out by milano even if they did just a harmless and honest post but happened to have 2 guys making out on their signature.

So on that basis, I'm not saying it was necessary or correct of Deron to autocratically moderate to that extent; but I certainly do think that a few of you (including you, Misanthrope) are taking this too far and too seriously.
Click to expand...
So is it too seriously to harmlessly point out what i dislike and ask for honest thoughts? Come the fuck on, is not like im hosting gay pictures myself or intentionally posting crap on the milano forum or anything, im just trying to get a reading because i honestly do not feel comfortable and i realize many people dont either.


I am what I am, I don't need to worry about other people's tastes, sigs, or where they get their jollies from. This is all silly.
Click to expand...

While i can accept your comments about me being too serious ( even if i disagree ) apathy can only cause more and greater problems.
 
MetalAges said:
You all can read my posts/opinions pretty clear there. I have nothing against gays etc. but I only ask that users of the site, especially ones that post in several of the band forums here, respect all other users here and not use distasteful sigs. It had two guys french kissing with the words "RIP Darrell 196? - 2004".

This is a metal/music community. I don't have issues with 99% of the sigs on the site until someone decides to not take into consideration other users. I don't know what else to say on the subject that I didn't post there or here. I answer any and every question put to me until it becomes obvious that people just start arguing for the sake of it. Hope this clears things up.
Click to expand...

I honestly think that you need to discontinue that attitute, this is not about "clearing things up" this thread is not trying to clear anything up, is trying to see who disagrees with you and who does not.

Or is disagreeing with you is violation of the rules? Cynicism and jokes have been part of this board before you ever bought it, before it was even under the control of mark, so excuse me for saying this but you have no bussiness "clearing things up" because this thread was never about that like i said before, unless you are trying to set up a rule about against disagreeing with you or expressing respectfull thoughts without attacks that critize you.
 
NoLordy Capone said:
It said R.I.P. Dimebag Darrell on it, Mis, and you know it. He was trying to get a reaction, not make a statement.
Click to expand...

So? I talked crap about Darrell on this forum right infront of the moderator and he didnt disagree at all, such a thing is allowed here afaik.
 
i read the whole story, both here and on the sot board.

the problem seems to center around the idea of what is offensive and what is not. wrong. the problem should be what is legitimately offensive and what is not. for instance, i could have a personal problem with pictures of kitten: since i represent those who pay for this webspace on um, should i be allowed to have all pictures of kitten removed from everybody's signature?

lines can and should be drawn concerning what is acceptable when it comes to images shown, both locally (each forum mod) and generally (the site admins). in fact, on this forum we have such lines: i don't want any porn posted, i don't want any rotten.com-style pictures posted unless they're functional to the content of a message, i don't want any racist/discriminating remarks in thread titles (=too evident). and that's about it. i'm actually inclined to cut a lot of slack when it comes to signatures, since it's easy to disable them if one feels offended.

basically, i feel that users should be protected from seeing things whose potential offensiveness resides in values we detest. making fun of dead people - if that's what the sigs were about - is questionable and a sign of bad taste, but it's not something i feel other users should be protected from. the same of course goes for images of guys kissing. so, no, i most certainly don't have a problem with pictures of gay people, as long as it's not porn. those who do have a problem can and should choose not to have signatures shown when they browse the site.

when it comes to um as a whole, the thing that's really disappointing is not even the choice to outright ban all gay signatures because "this is not a board for gay pride", as completely asinine as it certainly is. deron owns the site, he can do whatever he wants and those who disagree are free to pack up and leave, which is admittedly very tempting.
no, the worst part is that the admins are not capable of coming up with stable guidelines for users to adhere to without being constantly subjected to the unpredictable moods and pet peeves of who's in charge to decide what is allowed and what is not. if you don't want signatures depicting gay people, deron, you should have this rule written down somewhere. if you're against potentially offensive content of any kind, you should likewise make it clear, so that from now on we will stick to posting opinions with the highest degree of popularity only.
once again the way you deal with controversy is amateurish and inconsistent, and once again i'll ask you to do the sensible thing and resign from administrator of this site, which is clearly something you are not capable to handle.

as for the last (or first?) point in misanthrope's posts, i.e. moving to another forum, i can't really say. i'll certainly talk with the band about these episodes and let them judge for themselves whether they can be reason enough to say our goodbyes. all i can say for now is that i'm fiercely opposed to anybody posting here with controversial signatures getting banned on account of not having remained in the sot's no man's land. i'm gonna get really angry if any such thing happens.
 
NoLordy Capone said:
I was aware he was trying to get a reaction, it's why I have no issue with you forcing him to remove it. They're trying to make it all one sided to play you as the bad guy. It still needs to be taken into account they cause most of the trouble on UM.
Click to expand...

You are such a jerk. You don't even understand what's happening. Deron's being rash and abrasive. Ockham had that signature before the BM forum "invasion" (series of controversial threads imho) and of course he was doing it to be offensive, but he wasn't setting out to run anyone away. Many UMers have had questionable signatures before, and while I myself did want him to get rid of it, I don't think it should've been forced, because it wasn't gratuitous and wasn't unsafe for work environments.

MetalAges said:
You all can read my posts/opinions pretty clear there. I have nothing against gays etc. but I only ask that users of the site, especially ones that post in several of the band forums here, respect all other users here and not use distasteful sigs. It had two guys french kissing with the words "RIP Darrell 196? - 2004".

This is a metal/music community. I don't have issues with 99% of the sigs on the site until someone decides to not take into consideration other users. I don't know what else to say on the subject that I didn't post there or here. I answer any and every question put to me until it becomes obvious that people just start arguing for the sake of it. Hope this clears things up.
Click to expand...

There should be a clear set of rules before you start enforcing them brashly. And someone who's paid ten dollars to this community and has contributed with thoughtful and insightful threads for years before you ever owned the place don't deserve to be banned in one night over two or three threads. I don't care if you warned me, Koich, DE, Misanthrope and Kushantaiidan before, DE was the only one who did it twice, and while I maintain he deserves to come back as well (he's only a fucking kid, tbh) NONE of the others were exactly aware of this stipulation.

It's something we've been doing long before you ever came here, and Mark would simply ban them from individual forums. While you're being arrogant and dodgy, using the excuse that it would be too much trouble for you to ban them from this forum and that forum, I don't see where you're taking into account a growing number of members who are refusing to renew their premium accounts (that's a lot of potential money for server upkeep and a WWJD keychain) because they disagree with the way you're running this site.

Those of you who are in disbelief as to why some of us are making such a big deal out of the signature issue are missing the whole picture. Deron's making a series of misjudgements in one week's time, and we're sick of it. We've been here for years and hell, people don't pay attention all the time, people like to play around and have fun at others' expense sometimes. Deron's being irrational and childish about it, and some of us are too, but what can you expect? Some of us have exhausted our capacity to attempt reasonability with him, and it's only going to continue indefinitely until something is resolved. SOT's one of the largest communities in UM, and it's going to be gone if he doesn't show us the respect we deserve.

You want us to "respect you?" Earn it.

P.S. 1966 - 2004
You offended 50 people not knowing that.
 
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