What are your thoughts on expiermental metal/metalcore?

[Personified Hatred]

Remember that death metal also was trendy as FUCK in the 90s.

True. Also Thrash in the '80's.

What sucks is that many people wont give "new" metal bands (does not have to be trendy) that sounds different a chance cause they dont do it the "old" way. Metal can accually die by incest with of all these conservative people.

I agree.

 

[Werckmeister Harmonies]

I´m a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to metal, in the way that I usually like to hear solos and actual metal riffs in my metal.I´m, however, in no way a puritanical metal fan. I can appreciate and enjoy some of the more experimental bands in metal. For example; Blut aus Nord, Sigh, In the Woods, Deathspell Omega.
I´m also a huge fan of Neurosis. Most of my favorite metal bands are those who I feel manage to work with the traditions of metal and it´s different genres in a creative way, and end up doing something unique. Examples of bands I put in this category are Primordial, Deströyer 666, Celtic Frost (in their day) and Coroner (same as above).
I don´t like metalcore at all. Some of the old Belgian bands are ok (Arkangel, Length of Time etc.)and some of the more extreme and experimental bands have done some decent stuff, such as Converge, Soilent Green (even though it´s not music I really listen to) etc.
The commercial metalcore today is something I´ve chosen to ignore. Just like I ignored nu-metal before it thankfully withered away. Except for bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet for My Valentine who I really enjoy mocking and badmouthing. This stuff is so bad it can almost be enjoyable in it´s total worthlessness. And ATTACK!ATTACK!ATTACK? What a monstrosity!

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I'm going to guess you weren't a death metal fan in the 90s. It was never trendy. Trendy music in the 90s was the nu-metal explosion and grunge music. Death metal was certainly not "trendy" music.

Actually, within the context of underground music, it was. You're talking about the mainstream, which most metal in general has never been part of. In the early 90's, death metal dominated underground music, and was probably only second to industrial in popularity as far as all genres of underground music are concerned. Again, in the late 90's, we saw Norweigan black metal dominating underground music, along with goth rock. The point is that underground music experiences trends, just like mainstream music does. Also note that I am not comparing death metal, black metal, industrial, and goth in a stylistic sense, but rather in a sub-cultural (?) sense.

 

[VelociBrad]

You're essentially saying that it's trendy in a non-trendy sense though. "It was the most trendy out of the non-trendy underground music."

If you are talking about trendy within a metal context only, yeah sure. It was huge compared to other underground styles. But as far as the literal definition of trendy, it was not in the mainstream and thus it cannot be considered trendy like metalcore is right now.

 

[gundamterran]

Trendy usually means that people listened to it to be part of an in crowd, and that bands sprouted out aping other bands in the genre by the hundreds to try to cash in on the popularity. Technically Death Metal did get quite trendy in the 90's.

 

[warchild7.62]

I think you people don't know what trendy is. Inspiring the 2nd wave of black metal doesn't make it trendy. It certainly was not on radio stations and mainstream media. In order for something to be trendy it's going to have to be extremely popular with the mainstream music listening dynamic. Death metal absolutely was not that. Nu-Metal came around in the mid-90s, and grunge was around in the early 90s. Both of these things were WAY more trendy than death metal ever was.

I agree...

 

[warchild7.62]

Actually, within the context of underground music, it was. You're talking about the mainstream, which most metal in general has never been part of. In the early 90's, death metal dominated underground music, and was probably only second to industrial in popularity as far as all genres of underground music are concerned. Again, in the late 90's, we saw Norweigan black metal dominating underground music, along with goth rock. The point is that underground music experiences trends, just like mainstream music does. Also note that I am not comparing death metal, black metal, industrial, and goth in a stylistic sense, but rather in a sub-cultural (?) sense.

I think that kind of contradicts the term "trendy"...I agree with Brad that trendy music has to do with the popular and mainstream crowd...as far as death metal ruling the underground heavy music scene...remember that grunge and death metal battled out in the underground scenes in the late 80's early 90's before nirvana blew the grunge scene wide open therefore making "grunge" the trend...then all the other seattle bands followed behind and blew up...the only death metal bands that stuck around from back then were the truly old school and "true" death metal bands...napalm death, deicide, etc...horns up!

BJ Nash aka warchild
vocalist/songwriter
badfish97@live.com

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I would still argue that there are "trends" in metal music. Take SOTS era At The Gates for example. After that album became popular among metal fans, bands like In Flames and Arch Enemy saw their popularity increase.

 

[Vossyrus]

Death metal was most definitely partial to trends just like black metal was a couple of years afterwards. Let's face it, trends are just a natural part of every genre and it doesn't always equate to a bad thing.

Being trendy, or giving into trends does not necessarily have anything to do with the mainstream. For example, if all underground black metal bands or death metal bands, one by one, started wearing top hats they'd be following a trend and the act wearing top hat would be considered trendy. And besides, why would you even bother to measure extreme metal in regards to the mainstream anyhow?

There's plenty of things you can look to in the early death metal scene that were trendy. Be it musically, through a band's image, album covers, or even just the way bands wanted their albums to sound production-wise. Not to mention labels were clamouring to sign death metal bands to cash in on the growing popularity.

And it wasn't just the Norwegian bands who were turned off either. Many people and bands outside of Norway wanted to bring extreme metal back to its roots, to where it was before death metal had taken off.

 

[warchild7.62]

Death metal was most definitely partial to trends just like black metal was a couple of years afterwards. Let's face it, trends are just a natural part of every genre and it doesn't always equate to a bad thing.

Being trendy, or giving into trends does not necessarily have anything to do with the mainstream. For example, if all underground black metal bands or death metal bands, one by one, started wearing top hats they'd be following a trend and the act wearing top hat would be considered trendy. And besides, why would you even bother to measure extreme metal in regards to the mainstream anyhow?

There's plenty of things you can look to in the early death metal scene that were trendy. Be it musically, through a band's image, album covers, or even just the way bands wanted their albums to sound production-wise. Not to mention labels were clamouring to sign death metal bands to cash in on the growing popularity.

And it wasn't just the Norwegian bands who were turned off either. Many people and bands outside of Norway wanted to bring extreme metal back to its roots, to where it was before death metal had taken off.

very interesting...u definitely put it in a different context there...u make a very valid point and i understand what your saying and agree with u as well...horns up!

 

[Manic Ferocity]

As important it is for metal to evolve, it sure is as important for it to stay "true" to its roots, but also withouth "boundaries" and "rules".

Mostly important it is to not forget where metal came from, with all the genres these days it sure is easy to get confused if you`re not a big fan of the genre.

That doesn't really make sense. You can't stick to roots without setting boundaries.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

There's plenty of things you can look to in the early death metal scene that were trendy. Be it musically, through a band's image, album covers, or even just the way bands wanted their albums to sound production-wise. Not to mention labels were clamouring to sign death metal bands to cash in on the growing popularity.

Scott Burns and Morrisound come to mind.

 

[warchild7.62]

That doesn't really make sense. You can't stick to roots without setting boundaries.

u can set endless boundries and still stay true to your roots man...your roots are just that, a base at which you start and begin to grow and build...once you have your "roots" or in this case your base sound you can go anywhere with that and what u create can be anything...horns up!

 

[Manic Ferocity]

wut.

By not setting boundaries, anything could be considered metal.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Define metal's boundaries.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. How can you even distinguish metal from other genres of music if there aren't at least SOME aesthetics in the music that makes metal metal?

 

[Satevis]

I don't think it's quite fair to shit all over a genre as a whole. Every genre has good bands and crap bands.

Although, that being said, there is a big wave of crap coming out - like Attack, Attack. I can't stand this new wave of 14 year old, scream-o, drain-pipe-jeans-wearing, "metal".

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. How can you even distinguish metal from other genres of music if there aren't at least SOME aesthetics in the music that makes metal metal?

Well, of course metal (as with any other genre) has its distinguishing characteristics. Some would say it's heaviness, but that's incorrect because there's also hardcore. Some would say dark lyrics and atmosphere, but again that's not it because numerous forms of music possess those qualities. I would say it's in the instrumentation (must have bass, guitar, and drums as a foundation) and complex (at least relative to pop music) song structures. There is also a certain je ne sais quoi that is impossible to define. Beyond those qualities, metal is wide open for experimentation.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I'd say it comes down to the riffs, note choice and riff phrasing over all.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No one's talking about experimental core-ish metal, so I'll mention Thought Industry's Mods Carve the Pig: Assassins, Toads and God's Flesh. A perfect union of the Prong/Helmet post-hardcore/groove thing that was at its peak then, with a lot of alternative rock experimentation and some thrashy riffs as relics from when the band played progressive thrash. Since metalcore is such a useless term now you probably couldn't describe the album as such, but whatever, it's experimental, metal, and hardcore.