What are your thoughts on expiermental metal/metalcore?

[Satanstoenail]

No one's talking about experimental core-ish metal, so I'll mention Thought Industry's Mods Carve the Pig: Assassins, Toads and God's Flesh.

Googled, checking out now. Sounds really cool. They are one of those bands who's name I've always heard here and there but never managed to check out. Cheers for the rec.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

I hate trendy shit in music generally and in metal specifically.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

No one's talking about experimental core-ish metal, so I'll mention Thought Industry's Mods Carve the Pig: Assassins, Toads and God's Flesh. A perfect union of the Prong/Helmet post-hardcore/groove thing that was at its peak then, with a lot of alternative rock experimentation and some thrashy riffs as relics from when the band played progressive thrash. Since metalcore is such a useless term now you probably couldn't describe the album as such, but whatever, it's experimental, metal, and hardcore.

That was a great album. One of my favorite avant garde rock recordings of the 1990's.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Well, of course metal (as with any other genre) has its distinguishing characteristics. Some would say it's heaviness, but that's incorrect because there's also hardcore. Some would say dark lyrics and atmosphere, but again that's not it because numerous forms of music possess those qualities. I would say it's in the instrumentation (must have bass, guitar, and drums as a foundation) and complex (at least relative to pop music) song structures. There is also a certain je ne sais quoi that is impossible to define. Beyond those qualities, metal is wide open for experimentation.

Well I'm assuming you're talking about nu-hardcore which is basically just metallic hardcore punk.

 

[warchild7.62]

Well I'm assuming you're talking about nu-hardcore which is basically just metallic hardcore punk.

nu-hardcore...??? wouldn't that be considered metalcore...??? ive never heard of that genre before...man i must be getting old, there are so many sub-genres these days im losing count...lol...horns up!

 

[Manic Ferocity]

It's not really a genre, per se, it's just bands that are more hardcore than metal but have a metallic sound. I'm speaking of bands like Hatebreed, Earth Crisis, Shai Hulud, Strife, etc. I'm not really a fan but it's what I'm assuming Saparmurat_Niyazov is talking about. I wouldn't really call 80s hardcore "heavy" so much as fast and aggressive.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

I would call both heavy. Agnostic Front in the 80's was pretty heavy, if you ask me. Just because the guitars weren't down-tuned and ultra-distorted doesn't mean they weren't heavy. Anyway, hardcore (old or new) is just one example of heaviness. Shit, even classical music can be heavy. Listen to some of Sergei Prokfiev's symphonies and tell me that the dissonant strings aren't heavy.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

If one could isolate a single defining characteristic of metal, I believe one should say speed. It does the most to distinguish the music from other genres IMO.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If one could isolate a single defining characteristic of metal, I believe one should say speed. It does the most to distinguish the music from other genres IMO.

Some doom metal fan is going to rape you with his slow, lumbering cock.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

How so? Metal is played at every tempo.

 

[Moloc]

Who hear listens to other subgenres of metal besides straight up death metal or black metal? Also what are your thoughts on the future of metal, what genre do you think is taking over and the "future" of metal? Looking for negative and positive feedback. Just please be respectful. I go through enough war and BS in the Army here in afghanistan. Horns up!

I'm no fan of metalcore, but I don't understand why people hate on it so much. It's not my thing, but I don't give a shit if other people enjoy it.


But no matter what genre it is, all the good stuff sinks underground (instead of rising to the top). Most music in general is bad no matter what you're into; it takes patience to dig for the good stuff.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

wise post^ in all regards

 

[warchild7.62]

If one could isolate a single defining characteristic of metal, I believe one should say speed. It does the most to distinguish the music from other genres IMO.

i understand what ur saying but thats not necessarily true...MOST metal is played fast but there are bands that play ballads that are still considered metal...morbid angel for example is one of my favorite bands that play slow melodic ballads but definitely still metal...horns up!

 

[Kara-Shehr]

I'm no fan of metalcore, but I don't understand why people hate on it so much. It's not my thing, but I don't give a shit if other people enjoy it.


But no matter what genre it is, all the good stuff sinks underground (instead of rising to the top). Most music in general is bad no matter what you're into; it takes patience to dig for the good stuff.

Well said.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

...morbid angel for example is one of my favorite bands that play slow melodic ballads but definitely still metal...horns up!

wat

 

[warchild7.62]

wat

like i said...slow and melodic...i know what im talking about dude...

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I would call both heavy. Agnostic Front in the 80's was pretty heavy, if you ask me. Just because the guitars weren't down-tuned and ultra-distorted doesn't mean they weren't heavy. Anyway, hardcore (old or new) is just one example of heaviness. Shit, even classical music can be heavy. Listen to some of Sergei Prokfiev's symphonies and tell me that the dissonant strings aren't heavy.

Well "heavy" is obviously subjective. Personally, I wouldn't mistake 80s hardcore for metal.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

like i said...slow and melodic...i know what im talking about dude...

That only describes a small percentage of their songs. Of course there is melody throughout MA's music, but most of their songs are mid-paced to fast. Actually, melody isn't even a defining attribute to MA's music, there is a lot of anti-melody, atonality, and dissonance, especially in Trey's soloing.

Well "heavy" is obviously subjective. Personally, I wouldn't mistake 80s hardcore for metal.

Neither would I. I was simply making the point that heaviness is something that can be used in many types of music. Again, I refer to the je nais se qua that metal seems to have. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but when you hear real metal, whether it's flowery power metal, raw black metal, melodramatic melodeath, or brutal death, you just know it's metal. Maybe it's the tuning of the guitar. A vast majority of metal bands are tuned down at least 1/2 step; many bands tune much lower.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Neither would I. I was simply making the point that heaviness is something that can be used in many types of music. Again, I refer to the je nais se qua that metal seems to have. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but when you hear real metal, whether it's flowery power metal, raw black metal, melodramatic melodeath, or brutal death, you just know it's metal. Maybe it's the tuning of the guitar. A vast majority of metal bands are tuned down at least 1/2 step; many bands tune much lower.

It's not the tuning of the guitar. Tons of metal bands play with regular tuning. I'll say it again:

I'd say it comes down to the riffs, note choice and riff phrasing over all.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Hmmm... maybe you're right. But bands like Sonata Arctica and Dragonforce have riffs more reminiscent of pop/rock yet are considered metal. And what about grindcore bands? They basically play 3-chord punk riffs really fast, so how exactly are those guitar riffs uniquely metal?