what mid-level acts would you like to see in 2014

Jeremy - You hit the nail on the head!!

Lots of younger guys (and I seriously don't mean this as a dis, but just my observation) like to fantasize that older bands they recently got into were selling out arenas back in the day.

The most hilarious misconception is the popularity of Savatage.
Trust me, most here know that my time in Ghost In The Ruins made me a big fan.

Though back in the day they were "C" level metal at best.
Meaning they did their own tours playing very modest venues
(Here in Chicago, I am talking Thirsty Whale, Avalon, Gateway)

Their only big tours were with Dio and Megadeth (UIC ) and then on Gutter Ballet, touring with Testament (The Vic - Uncle Bob was there!)

In other words, if Savatage were to reform tomorrow, they would maybe 3/4 fill MoJoes at best!!!

I know there are some who will say, "BLASPHEMY!! They would sell out 5 nights at the HOB"

sorry - you are wrong. JOP or CIIC on their best day (outside of Brazil, Germany, and Florida) don't draw dick!!! I love both guys / bands / Savatage / whatever mixture.....

Sorry for the rant.....
It's just funny to hear people who weren't back in the day talk about how "big" bands were back in the day. Maybe it seemed that way because there was of course still more commercial exposure, but still.........
 
Jasonic said:
Jeremy - You hit the nail on the head!!

Lots of younger guys (and I seriously don't mean this as a dis, but just my observation) like to fantasize that older bands they recently got into were selling out arenas back in the day.

The most hilarious misconception is the popularity of Savatage.
Trust me, most here know that my time in Ghost In The Ruins made me a big fan.

Though back in the day they were "C" level metal at best.
Meaning they did their own tours playing very modest venues
(Here in Chicago, I am talking Thirsty Whale, Avalon, Gateway)

Their only big tours were with Dio and Megadeth (UIC ) and then on Gutter Ballet, touring with Testament (The Vic - Uncle Bob was there!)

In other words, if Savatage were to reform tomorrow, they would maybe 3/4 fill MoJoes at best!!!

I know there are some who will say, "BLASPHEMY!! They would sell out 5 nights at the HOB"

sorry - you are wrong. JOP or CIIC on their best day (outside of Brazil, Germany, and Florida) don't draw dick!!! I love both guys / bands / Savatage / whatever mixture.....

Sorry for the rant.....
It's just funny to hear people who weren't back in the day talk about how "big" bands were back in the day. Maybe it seemed that way because there was of course still more commercial exposure, but still.........
Click to expand...

I wasn't there back when, but even I know that most of these bands don't draw, yet people tend to think so. They put their fan glasses on I think and just assume because they think they're great, they were a big success.

The Savatage thing I find amusing. People keep saying how them reuniting will bring fans in droves. Honestly, I doubt they'd get many more than a JOP show would get. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if that's the reason Oliva hasn't done it.
 
Kinda like lots of people, young and OLD, think that every metal show to ever happen in any country over in Europe not only sells out, but is a national holiday. Grass is greener, etc.
 
Jasonic said:
Jeremy - You hit the nail on the head!!

Lots of younger guys (and I seriously don't mean this as a dis, but just my observation) like to fantasize that older bands they recently got into were selling out arenas back in the day.

The most hilarious misconception is the popularity of Savatage.
Trust me, most here know that my time in Ghost In The Ruins made me a big fan.

Though back in the day they were "C" level metal at best.
Meaning they did their own tours playing very modest venues
(Here in Chicago, I am talking Thirsty Whale, Avalon, Gateway)

Their only big tours were with Dio and Megadeth (UIC ) and then on Gutter Ballet, touring with Testament (The Vic - Uncle Bob was there!)

In other words, if Savatage were to reform tomorrow, they would maybe 3/4 fill MoJoes at best!!!

I know there are some who will say, "BLASPHEMY!! They would sell out 5 nights at the HOB"

sorry - you are wrong. JOP or CIIC on their best day (outside of Brazil, Germany, and Florida) don't draw dick!!! I love both guys / bands / Savatage / whatever mixture.....

Sorry for the rant.....
It's just funny to hear people who weren't back in the day talk about how "big" bands were back in the day. Maybe it seemed that way because there was of course still more commercial exposure, but still.........
Click to expand...

The people who tent to have this misconception are people who contray to what they might believe normally don't really go out to shows or follow any scene like they think they might. The Progpower audience is one of the best examples of this; a lot of those people think any one of the bands who play that fest well have good draws and it has been proven many time in the past thirteen years that is entirely not true. They cannot seem to comprehend that when a band is playing a fest that is no way to tell what that bands draw is. People will say it can be don't but they are full of shit and skew numbers to back their argument.
The truth is in America if a band is still playing in a 500 to 1000 complicity venue they can still end up playing in front of virtually no one. The fact of big labels, 20 fuckin albums, from Europe or whatever doesn't mean shit.
Man I have seen the bands on my little indie play crowds bigger than some "established" bands.
No Savatage would not be as grant as all the forum geeks thinks it would be. On the 'Gutter' tour I remember them playing at Baity's here in NC and no more than a couple hundred were getting in there. Sure a Florida show would be good, maybe Springfield VA. but there would only be few shows and why because even the bands themselves are aware of their drawing power. But I guess it is good when fans think a band is more than it is.
I read on one post in here "Attacker (if they are not to big)" I almost fell out laughing. Not taking anything away from the band but come on :lol:


Every time I hear about how big a band might be this scene comes to mind
 
Last edited by a moderator:
nomisofsiman said:
I wasn't there back when, but even I know that most of these bands don't draw, yet people tend to think so. They put their fan glasses on I think and just assume because they think they're great, they were a big success.

The Savatage thing I find amusing. People keep saying how them reuniting will bring fans in droves. Honestly, I doubt they'd get many more than a JOP show would get. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if that's the reason Oliva hasn't done it.
Click to expand...

I saw Savatage twice on their final tour. Both times were at Jaxx (now Empire), which is where Iced Earth and Kamelot usually end up. It sold out both times. They may not pack an arena, but a full-on Savatage show is going to outdraw JOP/CIIC many times over.
 
look at Sanctuary...when they were doing the select shows a few years back....it was like the second coming of Christ....people were expecting these huge crowds....from what I was told by many that were there...not a big turnout.
 
I think our recollections re: Sanctuary are somewhat different. If I remember correctly, even some of the most diehard Glennonites were questioning their position as a headliner for PP that year. Not sure if I ever read anything about that reunion being 'huge'...
 
dcowboys311 said:
I think our recollections re: Sanctuary are somewhat different. If I remember correctly, even some of the most diehard Glennonites were questioning their position as a headliner for PP that year. Not sure if I ever read anything about that reunion being 'huge'...
Click to expand...

You are correct. A lot of people were questioning them headlining, and then I remember there being an argument where some were saying they were huge in the day where others said they weren't. I'm pretty sure the latter happened. I know they were on some decent tours, but correct me if I'm wrong Jason, weren't they the opener? I'm pretty sure that back then people didn't like high pitched vocals with thrash. hell, a lot of people still don't.
 
Yeah, on their first big tour, they were first on the Megadeth / Warlock package.
After that they did a tour with Fates Warning in much smaller clubs.

Jeremy hit on something I have been arguing with Uncle Bob for years now....

The whole concept of how a band draws on their own as opposed to as part of a festival. Jeremy hit it from the opposite side of what I argue with Bob about. As he pointed out, the Prog POwer folks think Pagans Mind should sell out arenas. (Just an example) The pointbeing though is they do VERY well in that select festival setting....

On the contrary, Bob's initial reaction to most bands is "They don't draw well" My point is what has been proven at Prog Power. Many undergroundbands will do a LOT better in a festival setting because people may see them in a fest but not on their own.

I will be honest. If OZ came to Reggies with openers I didnt care for, I seriously doubt I would bother. I was always a casual fan. Did they kick serious ass at the fest!!! ABSOLUTELY! Were they a good pick? ABSOLUTELY!

I still think the vast majority comes to a fest for the package as a whole, as opposed to one band being the "draw"

Say what you want about Prog Power, but Glen has done a very good job with this!! So has Odin actually!!! So lets keep it up!!!
 
Jasonic said:
Yeah, on their first big tour, they were first on the Megadeth / Warlock package.
After that they did a tour with Fates Warning in much smaller clubs.

Jeremy hit on something I have been arguing with Uncle Bob for years now....

The whole concept of how a band draws on their own as opposed to as part of a festival. Jeremy hit it from the opposite side of what I argue with Bob about. As he pointed out, the Prog POwer folks think Pagans Mind should sell out arenas. (Just an example) The pointbeing though is they do VERY well in that select festival setting....

On the contrary, Bob's initial reaction to most bands is "They don't draw well" My point is what has been proven at Prog Power. Many undergroundbands will do a LOT better in a festival setting because people may see them in a fest but not on their own.

I will be honest. If OZ came to Reggies with openers I didnt care for, I seriously doubt I would bother. I was always a casual fan. Did they kick serious ass at the fest!!! ABSOLUTELY! Were they a good pick? ABSOLUTELY!

I still think the vast majority comes to a fest for the package as a whole, as opposed to one band being the "draw"

Say what you want about Prog Power, but Glen has done a very good job with this!! So has Odin actually!!! So lets keep it up!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean a fest is about the package, not individual bands. If you get a good group of bands it'll help. Some bands even you might not want to see on their own, but they can push fence sitters to come.

To that point though, with festivals it is in my opinion that the more exclusives there are, the more people you'll get. While I understand when Odin wanted to get Exumer and Onslaught because of a tour, it'll have less effect on the tour itself if you can see them at various cities.
 
However, there are exceptions that a band can draw more people in even if there are on a tour. Take a look at the Hellish Rock tour a number of years ago when they were at Progpower on a Thursday before the fest. They sold out. No where else and no other time would they have sold out in the states, but because you already had a bunch of power metal fans there for progpower, they did.
 
Justin Gaines said:
I saw Savatage twice on their final tour. Both times were at Jaxx (now Empire), which is where Iced Earth and Kamelot usually end up. It sold out both times. They may not pack an arena, but a full-on Savatage show is going to outdraw JOP/CIIC many times over.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you read over where I mentioned Springfield; of course they would or could pull well there it is a pretty metro area pulling from several places. As for CIIC and JOP well CIIC in Winston drew poorly, JOP in Raleigh was ok at best.
 
Jasonic said:
Yeah, on their first big tour, they were first on the Megadeth / Warlock package.
After that they did a tour with Fates Warning in much smaller clubs.

Jeremy hit on something I have been arguing with Uncle Bob for years now....

The whole concept of how a band draws on their own as opposed to as part of a festival. Jeremy hit it from the opposite side of what I argue with Bob about. As he pointed out, the Prog POwer folks think Pagans Mind should sell out arenas. (Just an example) The pointbeing though is they do VERY well in that select festival setting....

On the contrary, Bob's initial reaction to most bands is "They don't draw well" My point is what has been proven at Prog Power. Many undergroundbands will do a LOT better in a festival setting because people may see them in a fest but not on their own.

I will be honest. If OZ came to Reggies with openers I didnt care for, I seriously doubt I would bother. I was always a casual fan. Did they kick serious ass at the fest!!! ABSOLUTELY! Were they a good pick? ABSOLUTELY!

I still think the vast majority comes to a fest for the package as a whole, as opposed to one band being the "draw"

Say what you want about Prog Power, but Glen has done a very good job with this!! So has Odin actually!!! So lets keep it up!!!
Click to expand...


Certainly Glenn has done perfect with the whole package, but truth be told must of those bands on their own in the U.S. (not being on a fest) would do terrible. Even some of the better known bands as well. I also don't believe that a lot of the bands on that fest are doing much to help pull audience, at the point the festival itself is pulling , sure some of the bands are helping of course.
As for your Oz comment well that would have just been dumb, like that chance would ever come a second time.:lol:
One last thing; the expectation of the Sanctuary second coming was not just based on the Progpower forum, jeez not everything revolves around that festival. And Bob wasn't saying the PP audience, what I understand he was referring to the buzz and hype in general. There was a lot of speculation on them and this may surprise some of you but it was from folks who aren't even aware of the existence of PP.
Having Sanctuary on the festival was a perfect choice and it satisfied all of us older metal guys who have been into that band basically from the beginning. Those who doubted were the ones who probably had no idea who the band was.
 
I saw Sanctuary on the 70K cruise, they were went over really well, and in I remember seeing loads of members from other bands (all the Gamma Ray + Blind Guardian guys, etc etc) watching with keen interest. Was pretty cool. Uli Jon Roth's sets were packed with guitarists from like every band on the boat unless those guitarists were under the age of 30 and playing in The Absence or some shit. Fuck those guys.
 
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