what Obama has in store for service members wounded in battle

[Dead Winter]

I'm a veteran and I really don't care. Also, this isn't news...this story is at LEAST 6 months old. He didn't put it into effect or anything, it was an idea he kicked around for a couple of days and then realized it was stupid and nixed it. Are you telling me you've never had a stupid idea?

Stop watching so much Glenn Beck.

As far as the health care debate goes, health care should be a right to every person, not a privilege. Just because it's not in our Bill of Rights or our Constitution doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Americans have this habit of thinking that nothing existed before the signing of the Declaration of Independence (as if 240 years is a long time) and the formation of our Bill of Rights, as if God Himself (if there is one) physically handed his seal of approval to George Washington. Now I'm not saying health care should be free or done in the same manner as how it is here in Europe, but a uniquely American and affordable system needs to be put in place.

Personally I don't care what happens. I live here now and I'd never go back to the states without a 6 or 7-figure income. I just feel sorry for people who are genuinely sick and they just have to sit there and die because no one will help them without insurance. You would think that with all the Chuck Schuldiner fanboys out there, they'd get that by now.

Education and health care should be rights of the people. The healthier and more educated your people, the healthier and better off your country will be. But then again, America is a country where idiots like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly can become millionaires. But you know what? It's not really their fault. The average American is so far behind in education compared to the rest of the world that they won't know the difference. Those guys are making money off of other people's stupidity...it's the American Way. All they have to say is something about socialism (as if they'd even know what it is) and half the US is in a panic. It's McCarthyism all over again.

Bah, who knows? Maybe it's better that more people die. Less stupid people breathing our oxygen. Less morbidly obese people driving up costs of insurance because they can't keep their fat, pudgy little fingers off that second triple Whopper with cheese. Less religious people voting.

 

[J-Man]

I'm a veteran and I really don't care. Also, this isn't news...this story is at LEAST 6 months old. He didn't put it into effect or anything, it was an idea he kicked around for a couple of days and then realized it was stupid and nixed it. Are you telling me you've never had a stupid idea?

Stop watching so much Glenn Beck.

As far as the health care debate goes, health care should be a right to every person, not a privilege. Just because it's not in our Bill of Rights or our Constitution doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Americans have this habit of thinking that nothing existed before the signing of the Declaration of Independence (as if 240 years is a long time) and the formation of our Bill of Rights, as if God Himself (if there is one) physically handed his seal of approval to George Washington. Now I'm not saying health care should be free or done in the same manner as how it is here in Europe, but a uniquely American and affordable system needs to be put in place.

Personally I don't care what happens. I live here now and I'd never go back to the states without a 6 or 7-figure income. I just feel sorry for people who are genuinely sick and they just have to sit there and die because no one will help them without insurance. You would think that with all the Chuck Schuldiner fanboys out there, they'd get that by now.

Education and health care should be rights of the people. The healthier and more educated your people, the healthier and better off your country will be. But then again, America is a country where idiots like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly can become millionaires. But you know what? It's not really their fault. The average American is so far behind in education compared to the rest of the world that they won't know the difference. Those guys are making money off of other people's stupidity...it's the American Way. All they have to say is something about socialism (as if they'd even know what it is) and half the US is in a panic. It's McCarthyism all over again.

Bah, who knows? Maybe it's better that more people die. Less stupid people breathing our oxygen. Less morbidly obese people driving up costs of insurance because they can't keep their fat, pudgy little fingers off that second triple Whopper with cheese. Less religious people voting.

Your opinion, and your entitled to it, but if you read back a few posts you will see that I stated that i realized it was a 6 month old report, and by the way I do not watch or listen to Glenn Beck.

And I too am a vetern of 22 years service to our country, and very proud of that service. I have a son-in-law serving in IRAQ as we speak, his 3rd tour, and my son is due to go over in either April or May. i won't say anything about or against your reasoning for staying in Italy, and not wanting to return to the US without a 6 or 7 figure income i will let someone else field that.

 

[Dead Winter]

???

 

[Dead Winter]

Either way you slice the bread Nailz it is a slap in the face of all veterans and present service members, especially when they want to give illegal immigrants FREE Healthcare,

Whether you saw combat or not, you still served and served proudly, and this POS(not Pain of Salvation) who has now decided that 30,000 brave American sons and daughters, husbands and wives, cousins, nephews, neices, grandkids have to go over to AFGHANISTAN while he sits in the gilded palace and dictates laws and rules to us. And sinks our economy deeper and deeper into the Red. Don't get me started because you see right now my daughter sits here raising her son while her Husband is in IRAQ for the 3rd time, and my Son is due to leave for Afghanistan in a month. So don't get me started.

Ummm, if there's any reason to be upset, I'd probably wager that Afghanistan is the least worst of all the justifications of going to war.

Your son in law is in Iraq because of BUSH, not Obama. He's going to Afghanistan now because Bush decided that it'd be a great idea to have two fronts that had nothing to do with each other. How you can think this is Obama's fault is beyond me. He's just putting us back on track.

War sucks, man. It's not fun ducking mortars and rockets every day, having friends blow up when their tent gets hit. But you know what? We signed up for that shit...we VOLUNTEERED for that shit, and as sucky as it may be, we just have to suck it up and deal with it. Don't wanna be called to duty? DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY. And now you're pissed off at Obama because he's continuing a war (however justified it may be) that BUSH started and didn't finish because he had wartime ADD? "While he sits up there in his gilded palace and dictates laws and rules to us"....dude are you serious? He's the PUSA!!!! That's his JOB!!!! His job is also to be Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces and he will wield that power however he sees fit.

Also, where was this anger in 2003 when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and didn't even find what we went there to look for? My guess is that your son-in-law wasn't yet in the military so it just wasn't as important then. How quickly we go from wartime pissing contests to being anti-war when you have to do more than put a yellow ribbon on your home, stick a flag in your yard, and watch other people's relatives and loved ones be affected and die. How quickly it becomes personal and how quickly we become hypocrites when it affects us personally. (Not directed at you personally)

You see, we Americans don't want truth or justice, we just want to feel good about ourselves instead of facing the truth and consequences of our actions. "What?!?!?! People die in war?!?!?! Well, I've changed my mind, I don't want my son or daughter to go to war anymore!!! I'll have to find something else to brag about to all my friends."

I'm not saying this applies to you or anything, but there are many people in the US like that. They disgust me. Just trying to let you know that I'm not picking on you, just wanted some clarification.

 

[Dead Winter]

Your opinion, and your entitled to it, but if you read back a few posts you will see that I stated that i realized it was a 6 month old report, and by the way I do not watch or listen to Glenn Beck.

Good man. Glenn Beck should be killed.

And I too am a vetern of 22 years service to our country, and very proud of that service. I have a son-in-law serving in IRAQ as we speak, his 3rd tour, and my son is due to go over in either April or May. i won't say anything about or against your reasoning for staying in Italy, and not wanting to return to the US without a 6 or 7 figure income i will let someone else field that.

My reasoning for not coming back is that life is just better for me here. The society is better for me. Also it helps that my wife is Italian, . I mean, after living here and seeing Europe and all the things over here, what am I going to do when I get back to the states? Go to the mall? Go eat artificial food at an artificial chain restaurant? Go to Wal-Mart? There's just nothing of interest anymore for me there, aside from family that I visit every few years. I do miss college football, though. The fact is that you can live really well in Europe no matter what income you have. There's a ton of culture and infinite things to see and experience and infinite cultures to discover.

It depends on the type of person you are, however. If you base your life around your belongings and just can't live without Wal-Mart then Europe is probably not the place for you. Americans hide in their homes and build up an army of stuff to keep them occupied because life is just so boring and tedious for most of us there. We don't go out to just meet people and socialize; we go out with certain groups of people and we compartmentalize ourselves to this group or that group. We live in almost a fictional reality, where we present ourselves a certain way to people because we're accustomed to doing so, not because that's who we are. I just couldn't do it anymore.

 

[J-Man]

Ummm, if there's any reason to be upset, I'd probably wager that Afghanistan is the least worst of all the justifications of going to war.

Your son in law is in Iraq because of BUSH, not Obama. He's going to Afghanistan now because Bush decided that it'd be a great idea to have two fronts that had nothing to do with each other. How you can think this is Obama's fault is beyond me. He's just putting us back on track.

War sucks, man. It's not fun ducking mortars and rockets every day, having friends blow up when their tent gets hit. But you know what? We signed up for that shit...we VOLUNTEERED for that shit, and as sucky as it may be, we just have to suck it up and deal with it. Don't wanna be called to duty? DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY. And now you're pissed off at Obama because he's continuing a war (however justified it may be) that BUSH started and didn't finish because he had wartime ADD? "While he sits up there in his gilded palace and dictates laws and rules to us"....dude are you serious? He's the PUSA!!!! That's his JOB!!!! His job is also to be Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces and he will wield that power however he sees fit.

Also, where was this anger in 2003 when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and didn't even find what we went there to look for? My guess is that your son-in-law wasn't yet in the military so it just wasn't as important then. How quickly we go from wartime pissing contests to being anti-war when you have to do more than put a yellow ribbon on your home, stick a flag in your yard, and watch other people's relatives and loved ones be affected and die. How quickly it becomes personal and how quickly we become hypocrites when it affects us personally.

You see, we Americans don't want truth or justice, we just want to feel good about ourselves instead of facing the truth and consequences of our actions. "What?!?!?! People die in war?!?!?! Well, I've changed my mind, I don't want my son or daughter to go to war anymore!!! I'll have to find something else to brag about to all my friends."

I'm not saying this applies to you or anything, but there are many people in the US like that. They disgust me.

Dude i was pissed when we went to war in 2003 with no justification, it really irked my butt to send the cream of American Youth into a situation started by one family's grudge against a country.

I will always support the troops, but i have a very hard time supporting the war. Now I never said i was pissed at Obama for continuing the war, just at what he was thinking, albeit it was 6 to 9 months ago, of making wounded troops pay for treatment of their war related wounds, that is just wrong. If he has a plan to get our troops out of both the conflicts, then i will praise him for doing it.

Our family is a military family, everyone on this forum will tell you that, we support our sons and daughters who serve. I served, like I said 22 years, durning Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, was wounded in Grenanda, volunteered to go to Desert Storm, but was turned down because of the duty assignment I had. WAR Sucks, your right, especially one that was ill advised in the first place.

Your right in 2003 my son-inlaw and son were not in the military, but my thoughts of the war then are the same as they are now, WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? I live in El Paso which is the home of Ft Bliss, one of the units here the 507th Maintenance company had 9 soldiers killed and 12 captured in an ambush , i knew some of those soldiers, as the company I worked for interfaced with the military on a daily basis, It hurt then, and still hurts today.

I will support our troops in every way form or fashion, but i have not and will not support the war, as I think it is senseless. My family will continue to be a military family, and there will be more of us who will enter the Armed Forces and serve proudly and do what is asked, but all I and they ask for is the support of our elected leaders, whether Democrat or Republician or Independent.

 

[Dead Winter]

Dude i was pissed when we went to war in 2003 with no justification, it really irked my butt to send the cream of American Youth into a situation started by one family's grudge against a country.

I will always support the troops, but i have a very hard time supporting the war. Now I never said i was pissed at Obama for continuing the war, just at what he was thinking, albeit it was 6 to 9 months ago, of making wounded troops pay for treatment of their war related wounds, that is just wrong. If he has a plan to get our troops out of both the conflicts, then i will praise him for doing it.

Our family is a military family, everyone on this forum will tell you that, we support our sons and daughters who serve. I served, like I said 22 years, durning Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, was wounded in Grenanda, volunteered to go to Desert Storm, but was turned down because of the duty assignment I had. WAR Sucks, your right, especially one that was ill advised in the first place.

Your right in 2003 my son-inlaw and son were not in the military, but my thoughts of the war then are the same as they are now, WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? I live in El Paso which is the home of Ft Bliss, one of the units here the 507th Maintenance company had 9 soldiers killed and 12 captured in an ambush , i knew some of those soldiers, as the company I worked for interfaced with the military on a daily basis, It hurt then, and still hurts today.

I will support our troops in every way form or fashion, but i have not and will not support the war, as I think it is senseless. My family will continue to be a military family, and there will be more of us who will enter the Armed Forces and serve proudly and do what is asked, but all I and they ask for is the support of our elected leaders, whether Democrat or Republician or Independent.

Great post. It's nice to see someone against war who has actual experience with it for a change. As much as I detest the warmongers, I equally hate the spoiled tree-hugging hippies who think they can save the world by just being nice to everyone.

But have you ever noticed that the warmongers are almost always people who have never seen combat or even served in the military? Even the most hardened veteran hates war, and the only people who are beating their chests are usually college Republicans or people who have never and will never see combat.

There's nothing glamorous or beautiful about it.

 

[J-Man]

Great post. It's nice to see someone against war who has actual experience with it for a change. As much as I detest the warmongers, I equally hate the spoiled tree-hugging hippies who think they can save the world by just being nice to everyone.

But have you ever noticed that the warmongers are almost always people who have never seen combat or even served in the military? Even the most hardened veteran hates war, and the only people who are beating their chests are usually college Republicans or people who have never and will never see combat.

There's nothing glamorous or beautiful about it.

That last line sums it all up - There's nothing glamorous or beautiful about it.

 

[rms]

Ummm, if there's any reason to be upset, I'd probably wager that Afghanistan is the least worst of all the justifications of going to war.

Your son in law is in Iraq because of BUSH, not Obama. He's going to Afghanistan now because Bush decided that it'd be a great idea to have two fronts that had nothing to do with each other. How you can think this is Obama's fault is beyond me. He's just putting us back on track.

War sucks, man. It's not fun ducking mortars and rockets every day, having friends blow up when their tent gets hit. But you know what? We signed up for that shit...we VOLUNTEERED for that shit, and as sucky as it may be, we just have to suck it up and deal with it. Don't wanna be called to duty? DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY. And now you're pissed off at Obama because he's continuing a war (however justified it may be) that BUSH started and didn't finish because he had wartime ADD? "While he sits up there in his gilded palace and dictates laws and rules to us"....dude are you serious? He's the PUSA!!!! That's his JOB!!!! His job is also to be Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces and he will wield that power however he sees fit.

you were in the air force bro

 

[Dead Winter]

you were in the air force bro

Um, and? We got attacked every single day, right alongside the Army, multiple times a day from their mortars and rockets launched at us. A friend got his leg blown off and another friend died from a mortar attack when it hit their tent. What this has to do with being in the Air Force is lost on me. I mean, sure, we weren't outside the wire but it still sucked. I guess convoying from Baghdad to Balad doesn't count either? Oh that's right! Everyone in the AF is a pilot, right?

We were there in 2003/4, right after the fall and right when the insurgents were at their worst. Balad was the most attacked base in all of Iraq in the months I was there and trust me, inside the wire or not, it still sucked. But we had a job to do and we did it. Of course the Army had it worse but they always do...that's their job. I'm not getting into a pissing contest on whose job was more dangerous...I was lucky to be in the Air Force and not the Army but that doesn't mean that Iraq was a cakewalk. During that time, I would've much rather have been in the Army in Kirkuk or Tikrit instead of the Air Force in Balad.

Now Balad is a vacation spot...people get 3 beers a day and live in fortified trailers.

I was in South Korea too...are you Army or AF? I was in Osan for a year and thoroughly enjoyed it, aside from all the retarded drunks and juicy girls. It's really the only place where you can focus on the mission and then go home without a bunch of superfluous bullshit like stateside bases have. If I were still in, I'd probably be there again since our career field required you to go there at least once every five years or so.

 

[No-Mercy]

so we're all in agreement that healthcare is something all american citizens rightfully deserve...just like a protected home state and education?

furthermore, we also all agree that the private machines that control heatlchare are corrupt and morally criminal?
-so bottom line, we all agree taht the status quo is unacceptable. correct?-


if so...that's the middle ground. debate from there. how do we guarentee good/efficient healthcare for a reasonable price without giving government too much future power, but also eliminating the colossal supremacy of the private corporations?

fuckin politicians have been in office for 6-36 years and cant figure out that much on their own. god damn political parties and their crazies blasting the country and moral foundation of it into oblivion.

 

[Dead Winter]

Well, as far as I can tell that's exactly what they're trying to do. With this OPTIONAL health care program, you have the OPTION to get either government-run health care or private insurance. I really don't understand what the big deal is...people have been crying for years about Medicare and how it doesn't do enough. Well guess what? Medicare is a government-run health care program. And the retards in the town hall meetings who say, "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" should be shot right in the head for their complete and utter stupidity.

The US can't afford a system like we have in Europe...it's not cost effective. Therefore, they're trying to come up with a unique health care system for Americans that works.

 

[rms]

im in the army at Camp Hovey

 

[Dead Winter]

Good luck to you! Have fun while you can there because, believe it or not, you'll miss it later.

 

[J-Man]

im in the army at Camp Hovey

Thanks for your service, i know it's hard being away from your family at this time of year. Our Thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[Pellaz]

Thanks for your service, i know it's hard being away from your family at this time of year. Our Thoughts and prayers are with you.

+1

Thanks for your service and dedication, sir. (we need a saluting smiley)


No-Mercy, I disagree with many of your premises, but frankly, it's too late. The Dems have their 60 votes and a "win" for Obama, and really....that's all that matters.

 

[No-Mercy]

much respect rms

No-Mercy, I disagree with many of your premises, but frankly, it's too late. The Dems have their 60 votes and a "win" for Obama, and really....that's all that matters.

sorry. i was simply speculating to what i felt were reoccurring themes in the first 2 pages of the thread.

youre right about the 60 votes. i mean...theres a difference between opposition and obstruction.
opposition is what the dems did to nixon. opposed his stances and tried to offer counter measures, but ultimately "gave nixon his earned swing of the bat", and later wound up working with him.
obstruction is something entirely different, and thats what the republicans are doing. just trying to stop everything by doing anything.

it gets us nowhere.
sorry, but obama and the overwhelming democratic majority were elected by the majority of the voting country to do this, and they have tried long enough to hold the republicans hand along the way.

sometimes, when it comes down to it, if you don't take a "black & white" stance, nothing will ever be done. especially when i think its indisputable that the right just wants to stop nearly everything he is pushing.

 

[rms]

+1

Thanks for your service and dedication, sir. (we need a saluting smiley)


No-Mercy, I disagree with many of your premises, but frankly, it's too late. The Dems have their 60 votes and a "win" for Obama, and really....that's all that matters.

Thanks for your service, i know it's hard being away from your family at this time of year. Our Thoughts and prayers are with you.

thanks guys. ain't that hard being here tho , were you army j-man? 14 series at Bliss? my brother was stationed at bliss when he did his time, I forget his actual MOS now though but he deployed with 82nd after leaving Bliss

Good luck to you! Have fun while you can there because, believe it or not, you'll miss it later.

ya korea reminds me of buffalo a lot, cold, trees and bars. just about it. just more hookers here

 

[Diamond45]

Well, as far as I can tell that's exactly what they're trying to do. With this OPTIONAL health care program, you have the OPTION to get either government-run health care or private insurance.

First step in trying to squash private health care and CHOICE of who you want to provide you health care. Sure, they SAY it's a CHOICE of either government run (ugh) health care, or better run PRIVATE health care.

That is until most people will go for the so-called "free" health care and put the private providers out of business.

I work for "Uncle Sam" and I'm here to tell you that if you REALLY want govenrment-run health care, be careful what you wish for. It will be so inefficient that you will be waiting FOREVER to get any care, and will be screwed up beyond all belief. After the government takes over, you will be BEGGING for the old system we have now to come back!

:zombie:uke:

 

[PurpleCrayonWriter]

First step in trying to squash private health care and CHOICE of who you want to provide you health care. Sure, they SAY it's a CHOICE of either government run (ugh) health care, or better run PRIVATE health care.

That is until most people will go for the so-called "free" health care and put the private providers out of business.

I work for "Uncle Sam" and I'm here to tell you that if you REALLY want govenrment-run health care, be careful what you wish for. It will be so inefficient that you will be waiting FOREVER to get any care, and will be screwed up beyond all belief. After the government takes over, you will be BEGGING for the old system we have now to come back!

:zombie:uke:

+1.

Monday, I asked my chiropractor if the health care bill would affect him. He said it would, in a number of very scary ways:

1. It would be illegal for people to pay their doctors directly. All payment would have to go through the government or insurance companies. (Which detaches the payer from the provider and weakens the relationship people have with their doctors and doctor's offices.)

2. The government would mandate how many patients each doctor can or cannot see per day. (This will have a profound affect on the quality of health care. And, essentially, turns doctors into indentured servants...or employees of the government.)

3. This government-run health care system would be similar to what they have in Canada, according to a person from Canada who works in his office. She told him their system is terrible. Very long waiting periods. Denied health care. The works.

I still don't understand how anyone with any powers of observation can think government can run health care better than insurance companies and doctors do. Surely, that's wishful thinking. When I deal with the government (the U.S. Postal Service, the DMV, my elected representatives, etc.) I see vast inefficiency, unhelpful attitudes, and wasteful spending. It's a faceless bureaucracy. There's no need for the government to do otherwise. What's their incentive to change? They have a monopoly on certain services...

Just as they wish to have with health care.

I don't want government fining me or jailing me for refusing to buy into their health care system.

Furthermore, I don't want my life regulated to the point where everyone in every branch of government has access to my health care records and can tell me which doctors to see, when, and even IF I'll be allowed to see them.

We have the best health care system in the world. Bar none. Hands down. People from other countries are brought here or choose to come here. It's extremely rare for it to happen the other way around.

A Rasmussen poll earlier this year (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ealth_insurance_coverage_as_good_or_excellent) indicated 70% of people in the U.S. are happy with their health insurance.

A more recent poll from the last month or so (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub.../healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform) revealed this information:

"The latest Rasmussen Reports weekly tracking update shows that 41% of voters nationwide favor the bill and 55% are opposed. Those figures are essentially unchanged from a week ago. This the fifth straight week with support for the legislation between 38% and 41%.

"Polling released last week showed that 57% of voters say passing nothing would be preferable to passing the current legislation. Most voters (54%) believe they personally will be worse off if the legislation passes."

So what's the rush to change it? Why are the Dems in Washington so hell-bent on "fixing" something the vast majority of Americans don't see as needing to be fixed?

Great questions. But I have four more.

All anyone in favor of this rush-to-health-care-change has to do is ask themselves these questions:

1. If this health care is so good, why did Congress exempt itself from it?

2. If this health care is so good, why are the Dems voting in the dead of night, reluctant to have their 2,000-page bill read aloud (or even read at all!) before it's voted on, and unwilling to listen to any opposition to it?

3. If this health care is so good, and will save so may lives, and improve health care in the United States dramatically (as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is fond of saving), why doesn't it take effect for 3-4 years after it's passed, somewhere in the year 2014? Why not have it take effect immediately so that all those lives can be saved? Why wait?

4. Why has the Congressional Budget Office been raising red flags all along about the health care bills under consideration -- only to have certain members of Congress or those in the White House ignore or pooh-pooh the CBO findings?

The more you delve into the facts of this, the more it stinks to high heaven.

You want to know how to "fix" the health care system (which isn't broken at all)? Allow our insurance to be portable. Currently, our insurance is regulated about as much as the mortgage lenders were, which is to say much more than anyone thinks. It's not the insurance companies that dictate terms of coverage in all cases. If government would allow someone to have health insurance in, say, Michigan and then keep their health insurance when they move to Colorado, people would be better off. But that portability isn't allowed. So there's more hassle and potentially costlier coverage. Or waiting periods for pre-existing conditions.

The problem is not capitalism or "big corporations," as those in Washington would have us think. If not for capitalism and "big corporations," America would not exist. Capitalism powered the United States -- and the world. A thriving private sector (meaning capitalism and "big corporations") provides all the money that drives the economy and allows government to have sufficient taxes to run things. Without capitalism and "big corporations" there's very little private-sector wealth. Hence, the economy shrinks. And government has to raise taxes to collect more.

Socialists would have you believe that capitalism is evil, that "big corporations" are evil, and that government -- big government -- is the answer.

But consider: Which would you rather deal with -- a few corporations subject to the market of the people? Or an all-pervasive, all-powerful government from which there is nowhere to turn? And where will money come from to support the government (federal, state, and local) if there's no-one left to create it? (That's a whole other area that troubles me. The current administration has (a) crushed the private sector, which sucks money out of the system, and (b) printed money to make up the difference. That kind of business model is doomed to failure now just as it has been throughout history whenever it was attempted.)

There's a lot more to this issue than heath care. In fact, I don't see it as being about health care at all. It's about control. Either you, the private citizen, has it. Or the government has it.

I know which I'd prefer.

Thankfully, there are members of Congress raising the red flag of constitutionality about this whole health care issue - as well they should. I don't, for a New York minute, believe this health care plan is constitutional. I think it should be challenged -- by members of Congress first, and then by private citizens if it passes and becomes law.