When did female-fronted metal become "gotchic metal"?

In the late 90s I saw Nightwish described as gothic metal a few times. Most certainly simply because of the female lead singer and keyboards.

If those people that labelled it that way actually listened to the music for more than a few seconds they'd realize how superficial they were being with that description.

superficial , that is a good word to describe Nightwish. Gothic really doesn't describe it, now maybe Disney metal does. I first heard that term used to describe Nightwish one night at a club I thought it was perfect.
On the topic; Goth rock, darkwace, etc has alway been very accepting to female vocalist and in the 90s more classical styled female vocals. I remember it actually becoming more predominated in the goth scene before metal began to embrace it.
 
I think this is a case of record label marketing people not being able to discern the difference between fashion and music. They see a band who has a hint of a Goth look about them, and they stamp them with a Goth label. And since that stamp seems to bridge a number of different sub-genres, and consequently, a number of different market segments, they apply the stamp quite freely.

If the female lead singer has black fingernail polish, then it is a goth band. Simple enough.
:p
Referencing Evanescence as the leader in anything musical is kind of insulting to all the bands that really forge new musical paths; and frankly is a reflection of the "American-Centric" view of, well, everything, so many people still hold.

The metal community is world wide. Hopefully, if enough people are educated properly, more of the good music from outside of the US will see more play here.
 
I blame everything on Evanescence.

It's almost enough to make me stop wearing black! Almost. Not quite.

Ill agree here.

Evanescence hit the scene with their "dark" looking music video with a pale/dark haired woman fronting it in typical "gothic" looking clothes. Lots of people that barely listen to heavy music then were like OMG metal+dark+Chick-n-corset HAS to = Gothic

Then all the little un popular girls that were reffered to as goths or emos at the high schools (at least at mine back in my graduating year of 06') picked up on it, thus gothic female fronted metal was born...... at least this is what ive seen from a younger side of the equation. So now any time there is a heavy band with a chick in it in a corset its already gothic metal.

I cant tell you how many times we get called gothic metal just because we have a chick in the band. WTF? Im pretty sure sabrina bareley even listens to any "goth rock" lol hell I dont ever really know any real gothic bands.

Hey at least we havent seen an out break of twilight metal.

Then america would have no hope for it whatsoevAr.

EDIT: I'd also like to add Lacuna Coil to the puzzle.
 
Disney metal?!?!?!?!

Sweet, sounds like a show I could bring the kids to.

Twisted_Princess__Snow_White_by_jeftoon01.jpg


I'd watch it.
 
Referencing Evanescence as the leader in anything musical is kind of insulting to all the bands that really forge new musical paths; and frankly is a reflection of the "American-Centric" view of, well, everything, so many people still hold.

The metal community is world wide. Hopefully, if enough people are educated properly, more of the good music from outside of the US will see more play here.

Band brings image to popular market. Band brings sound to popular market. Band gains fans as a result and introduces multitudes of people to a certain musical subgenre, moreso than any other band before them.

HEY, YOU'RE ACTING LIKE AN AMERICAN FOR CALLING THEM A LEADER IN ANYTHING, SHAME ON YOU.

I'm sure you're going to see more people here educated properly. In fact, I heard that Iowa cut their biology budget in order to start teaching the difference between Draconian and After Forever in classes. Don't worry, the average American will soon be a gothic expert.
 
Not really, they were always considered just plain rock. Gothic metal or goth metal is a subgenre of heavy metal music. Gothic metal combines the aggression of heavy metal with the dark melancholy of gothic rock. The music of gothic metal is diverse with bands known to adopt the gothic approach to different styles of heavy metal music. Lyrics are generally melodramatic and mournful with inspiration from gothic fiction as well as personal experiences.

Pioneers of gothic metal include Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride and Anathema, all from the north of England. Other pioneers from the first half of the 1990s include Type O Negative from the United States, Tiamat from Sweden, and The Gathering from the Netherlands. Norwegian band Theatre of Tragedy developed the "beauty and the beast" aesthetic of combining aggressive male vocals with clean female vocals, a contrast that has since been adopted by many gothic metal groups. During the mid-1990s, Moonspell, Theatres des Vampires and Cradle of Filth brought the gothic approach to black metal. By the end of the decade, a symphonic metal variant of gothic metal had been developed by Tristania and Within Temptation.

In the 21st century, gothic metal has moved towards the mainstream in Europe, particularly in Finland where groups such as The 69 Eyes, Entwine, HIM, Lullacry, Poisonblack and Sentenced have released hit singles or chart-topping albums. In the US, however, only a few bands such as HIM,[1] Lacuna Coil,[2] Cradle of Filth,[3] Within Temptation,[4] Nightwish[4] and Evanescence[4] have found commercial success. Notable gothic metal bands from eastern Europe include Closterkeller, the most popular gothic act in Poland, which was founded in 1988.

Good post. However, I wouldn't really consider Within Temptation hitting popular success in the US.

Yep, I definitely plan on getting their whole discography.

DO IT JASON!!!! All their stuff is absolutely incredible.


If the female lead singer has black fingernail polish, then it is a goth band. Simple enough.
:p
Referencing Evanescence as the leader in anything musical is kind of insulting to all the bands that really forge new musical paths; and frankly is a reflection of the "American-Centric" view of, well, everything, so many people still hold.

The metal community is world wide. Hopefully, if enough people are educated properly, more of the good music from outside of the US will see more play here.

I agree, but I wasn't saying they were musically responsible as much as most people who listen to mainstream music thinking they were goth/started the female-fronted metal thing.

Ill agree here.

Evanescence hit the scene with their "dark" looking music video with a pale/dark haired woman fronting it in typical "gothic" looking clothes. Lots of people that barely listen to heavy music then were like OMG metal+dark+Chick-n-corset HAS to = Gothic

Then all the little un popular girls that were reffered to as goths or emos at the high schools (at least at mine back in my graduating year of 06') picked up on it, thus gothic female fronted metal was born...... at least this is what ive seen from a younger side of the equation. So now any time there is a heavy band with a chick in it in a corset its already gothic metal.

Yep. Sounds about right.


Twisted_Princess__Snow_White_by_jeftoon01.jpg


I'd watch it.
:lol: Nice.
 
superficial , that is a good word to describe Nightwish. Gothic really doesn't describe it, now maybe Disney metal does. I first heard that term used to describe Nightwish one night at a club I thought it was perfect.

I meant the label as superficial, not the band.
 
Band brings image to popular market. Band brings sound to popular market. Band gains fans as a result and introduces multitudes of people to a certain musical subgenre, moreso than any other band before them.

HEY, YOU'RE ACTING LIKE AN AMERICAN FOR CALLING THEM A LEADER IN ANYTHING, SHAME ON YOU.

I'm sure you're going to see more people here educated properly. In fact, I heard that Iowa cut their biology budget in order to start teaching the difference between Draconian and After Forever in classes. Don't worry, the average American will soon be a gothic expert.

I think it is up to people like us to educate. Being a smartass is the last way to do it. Hopefully you keep this attitude to this forum. I will buy copies of disks and hand them out, saying "support the band if you like it...let me have the disk back if you don't"

That simple. If they DO like it, I feed them more. If someone says they like Evanescence, I point them in the direction of a bunch of other bands in the genre (most of them came first). Sometimes I point them at a band like Glassmode, who state that they are heavily influenced by Evanescence...just to show that there are LOTS of bands out there worth discovering:

 
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So, I think this has become a terrible trend. I used to think that gothic metal, while not a real subgenre, was more or less metal that had its roots in black or even doom that deviated from this, yet kept the gothic lyrical themes.

Case in point: Moonspell.

However, now the internet marketing machine has labeled the LARGE number of female fronted aggressive rock/metal, a la Delain, Epica, After Forever, and lesser bands with female singers as "gothic metal". I see this as annoying, and a terrible misnomer.

What say you?


I think calling stuff like Delain and After Forever "Aggressive" is a misnomer. I mean, sure, there's that whole 'heavy-part-soft-part" formula that they use for most of their music, but it's sort of like...Half aggressive? "It's like 'YEAH WE"RE GONNA KICK SOME ASS...but now it's time to get sad :("


How do we define "gothic" metal anyway? Not that i'd consider any of the above bands particularly gothic, but ti's not like any of them go out of their way to avoid that label. Maybe it's just that Symphonic+Female singer is the new definition, but that's mostly a result of everyone trying to give every band it's own sub-sub-subgenre, so the categorization for bands that aren't trying to mix as many elements into their music as possible in order to get the attention of ADHD inflicted teenagers on the internet.

"No, this is melodic post-symphonycore!"
"What the fuck you talking about man, this is -obviously- post-progressive chambercore."