Why is it to incredibly difficult to achieve the damnation clean tonepe

[Heckelgruber]

I was checking out some guitars in a shop using the current Laney 30 watt tube combo and was impressed by its clean tone. It was a bit cack for roaring metal distortion, but sounded very sweet for cleans. In the UK it costs about £350 in the shops - I don't know how much you would pay for an imported one. I have a Mesa combo at home and I thought for cleans the Laney was better value although not actually better. We get badly ripped off by Mesa/Boogie in the UK.

I'm sure you wouldn't, but don't mail order something without playing with it or one like it first. You have to make sure its right for you at your playing volumes, with the guitar you actually use

 

[Necromantic-Hiko]

the fact of the matter is, you are neither Lindgren nor Akerfeldt, and as such will never nail the damnation tone. Tone doesn't lie solely in your amp or guitar, it lies within your hands as well. That is why it is impossible to get their clean tone.

 

[MixGrafix]

That is the reason i started looking into fenders, but the hot rods seem to get distorted quite early. You would think an amp that's meant for good cleans, and has 60 watts of tube power, would be a acceptable for small shows and such. But if you're trying to play windowpane and it distorts because the volume is over 4, people will cringe. And if you lower it, they will simply not hear you over the drums and bass.

And the distortion on fenders, with a pedal of course, seems nice at first but i was told at higher volumes it is not nearly as good as it seems, and ebaying a used mesa or something when i have enough money may be a better idea. Not sure how true this is, i didn't have the opportunity to compare a fender with a pedal to a different amp with a pedal when both are cranked.

(oh, and yes, the marshalls and peavey went out of the question pretty fast once i saw that they have poor cleans)

(also, i'm not sure how that "pe" got into the thread title, but you know what i meant)

I am a drummer by trade, but play some guitar also. I walked into Guitar center, and was looking at all of the amps in the store, and the amp guy came up to me and said "this is the one you want". It was a Line 6 Spyder 2 75w with a 12" Celestion speaker. The tones you can get out of it are amazing, as well as POD xt give this amp the best sound I have ever heard, and I have been around the music industry for twenty years.

Check out Line 6 if you want a killer tone from clean to death metal, and EVERYTHING in between.

http://line6.com/products/

 

[JoeVice]

on being loud enough to cope with a drummer

well, i have a 412 cab that i run mine through also. it fucking screams. a friend of mine has a crate bv120, which is a loud fucker, and my 30 watt laney keeps up with that thing and more. imo, most vintage-like amps have a much stronger and thicker midrange than the average modern high gainer. this is where you stand out when you're put in the mix...especially live.

 

[rocklobster]

just get a gt-6 or 8....youll get that tone in no time (and i dont care what anyone says, you CAN get that tone on a gt-8)

Do the pedals really provide you with good cleans? If they do i just might have to try that.

Check out Line 6 if you want a killer tone from clean to death metal, and EVERYTHING in between.

I've heard people say that, but they just seem to sound very empty to me. The tone doesn't sound...full. I dunno how to describe it.

 

[Heckelgruber]

Check out Line 6 if you want a killer tone from clean to death metal, and EVERYTHING in between.

Of course it's a very subjective matter, but I tried a Flextone II a couple of years ago and it sounded thin, reedy and weak to my philistine ears no matter how much I tweaked it. Fair enough, it wasn't the Spyder but they're all POD-derived I'm guessing. If it works for you then good, because a modelling amp is much cheaper than a hand-wired tube amp and you'll save a fortune! Maybe their higher-end Vetta amp is better, I don't know.

I'm sure that one day modelling amps will get to the point where we can ditch the expense and impracticality of vacuum tubes but not yet IMO.

 

[Stimuli]

Line 6 is shit... I own the 150watt Spyder II... great amp to practice in your room with, but like u said, u are trying to overpower a drummer (i totally know how that feels... cant these fuckers take a jazz class and realize you dont have to fuckin smash the drums to play? ah man, dont wanna get myself started on drummers)...

Line 6 is shit once u turn up past like 4 or 5. Ive never heard a faker sounding distortion, and they pride themselves on emulating it as best as possible, and, they do seem to do it better than other digital equipment (which doesnt change the fact it has no balls)...

amp distortion is the way to go. Krank, Marshall, Mesa, Orange all have great cleans and distortion tone at super high volumes. Arent tube amps made to sound better the louder you go? Defenitly seemed that way when I was trying out some half stacks... I went with a Mesa triple rec and couldnt be happier...heheh 5000 dollars later...

as for inexpensive (less expensive) tube amp with great cleans... my buddy plays through a 75 what traynor and the cleans stay clean even at the highest volume. There is a little rumble at max volume but you can fully tell its only because its at such a ridiculously high volume - the tone itself doesnt break up.

EDIT: ^ Heckel beat me to it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Line6 sounds like ass.

 

[Led Opeth]

i still say get the gt-8, youll be satisfied, and its alot cheaper than buying a whole new amp.,..

 

[rocklobster]

Now, question about the pedalboards...gt6, gt8, or podxtl. that is the question. Is gt8 really superior to gt6, or does it just cost alot more because it's newer? Do the boss multiprocessors have the possibilities of adding extra crap, such as the metal pack for podxtl? Which can provide you with good metal tones as well as good cleans?

Thing is, i know opeth use boss gt6, and i know symphony x use pod xtl, and both bands kick ass, but is there any difference between the boss and pod xt? And between 6 and 8?

 

[JoeVice]

yes, they are different. try them out! i'll put my bit down though. i think that its easier to make a sweet amp sound mean than to make a mean amp sound sweet. once in a guitar shop, i sat down and achieved a nice metal crunch with a fender twin. granted, its nearly impossible to drive that amp's power section...but, i was able to make it sound pretty heavy. plus, fenders have a luscious midrange which is essential to cutting through the mix. i have tried tweaking a high gain marshall into a nice clean tone...no fucking way. they just don't have that ability...at least not to my liking.

 

[rocklobster]

yes, they are different. try them out! i'll put my bit down though. i think that its easier to make a sweet amp sound mean than to make a mean amp sound sweet. once in a guitar shop, i sat down and achieved a nice metal crunch with a fender twin. granted, its nearly impossible to drive that amp's power section...but, i was able to make it sound pretty heavy. plus, fenders have a luscious midrange which is essential to cutting through the mix. i have tried tweaking a high gain marshall into a nice clean tone...no fucking way. they just don't have that ability...at least not to my liking.

Oh yeah that's why i've been trying to get an amp with nice cleans, preferably damnation-like.

But yeah, i was at a GC the other day and their power supply for the boss was missing and i couldn't try it out. They said come back in a week...hah

 

[Heckelgruber]

Line 6 is shit once u turn up past like 4 or 5. Ive never heard a faker sounding distortion, and they pride themselves on emulating it as best as possible, and, they do seem to do it better than other digital equipment (which doesnt change the fact it has no balls)...

I couldn't agree more. The modelling amps and make an evil-sounding rasp, but they have no BALLS.

 

[Stimuli]

indeed... i need balls oozing out of my amp...

 

[affinityband]

Gt8 is shit for actual 'quality sound' I have one. I wish id bought the vox with the valves in them. I also find myself being extremely paranoid about the tone with it aswell, which means i fiddle with it constantly. Its turned me into a monster..

 

[Heckelgruber]

Gt8 is shit for actual 'quality sound' I have one. I wish id bought the vox with the valves in them. I also find myself being extremely paranoid about the tone with it aswell, which means i fiddle with it constantly. Its turned me into a monster..

I owe you a drink, I think you might have just saved me £300!

I was contemplating getting one, but you've made me all wary, which means I probably won't end up buying it.

 

[affinityband]

Ha thats alright dude. The GT8 would be ideal for a big touring band like Opeth. But for the average player its not so great for tone. Its a pretty complicated system unless your very good with these things. I would definatley say the Vox multifx pedal for around the same price is better. If want a multifx pedal i would defniatley consider getting one as the tone is marvelous.

 

[Heckelgruber]

Ha thats alright dude. The GT8 would be ideal for a big touring band like Opeth. But for the average player its not so great for tone. Its a pretty complicated system unless your very good with these things. I would definatley say the Vox multifx pedal for around the same price is better. If want a multifx pedal i would defniatley consider getting one as the tone is marvelous.

Just something convenient for silent practice. I have a nice regular combo, but I like to play late at night when others are in bed, so a one-piece bit of kit with a metronome feature I can run though the headphones would be ideal. I use a tube preamp into a multitrack recorder at the moment, which is a bit of a faff setting up.