noble savage
Member
Exactly.
But I think the problem is that either:
a) People agree with her or
b) It's the people themselves who are to ignorant to know whether or not they agree. They just see a hot woman.
2008 Political debate thread
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Exactly.
But I think the problem is that either:
a) People agree with her or
b) It's the people themselves who are to ignorant to know whether or not they agree. They just see a hot woman.
ABQShredHead
©1970
I agree with her on most points.
But, Burnout, what issues does she have with the First Amendment? And her understanding of her role was much better during the debates than Mr. Biden's. And, speaking of deficits, what will happen if we have a Dem Legislature paired with a Dem Executive, what with the threats by certain prominent Democratic legislators who threaten to basically open the flood gates on spending for their programs, regardless of how much they increase the deficit - all with the intent that there are plenty of "rich" people in the US to pay the costs later. That is absolutely absurd and blatantly irresponsible. We are on the fast slope downward to depression here.
And, Ken, what I have problems with is Obama's lack of issues killing viable children (partial-birth abortions) and his socialistic economic plan. Those who will be receiving checks in the mail from the government will in effect be given license to stay at the level of living they are at - it provides a crutch to keep "poor" poor rather than to put forth effort to better their selves. And, we, in the end , will pay for it. I see the program becoming so big that you, Ken, will soon be paying on it when you're deep in your career workign to support a family.
But, Burnout, what issues does she have with the First Amendment? And her understanding of her role was much better during the debates than Mr. Biden's. And, speaking of deficits, what will happen if we have a Dem Legislature paired with a Dem Executive, what with the threats by certain prominent Democratic legislators who threaten to basically open the flood gates on spending for their programs, regardless of how much they increase the deficit - all with the intent that there are plenty of "rich" people in the US to pay the costs later. That is absolutely absurd and blatantly irresponsible. We are on the fast slope downward to depression here.
And, Ken, what I have problems with is Obama's lack of issues killing viable children (partial-birth abortions) and his socialistic economic plan. Those who will be receiving checks in the mail from the government will in effect be given license to stay at the level of living they are at - it provides a crutch to keep "poor" poor rather than to put forth effort to better their selves. And, we, in the end , will pay for it. I see the program becoming so big that you, Ken, will soon be paying on it when you're deep in your career workign to support a family.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
She was on a conservative radio show and basically said something to the effect of needing to look at and reexamine the first amendment in terms of how it actually protects media; she seems to think that the first amendment should protect her from the press, where the reverse is true.
She also explained her position as vice president in an interview as essentially being a policy-making member of the senate which is also not at all true; she gets to preside over the senate and cast only tie-breaking votes.
She's hardly a reformer either, or financially responsible: she built some God-awful multipurpose sports complex in Wasilla that the city couldn't (and still can't) afford, on land that didn't belong entirely to the city. As far as I know there are law suits pending and the city is having to make painful cuts to buy the remainder of the land.
I don't agree with her on any social issue; her own family's situation demonstrates the ineffectiveness of an abstinence-only sex ed approach. Trying to insert creationism in to school curriculums is something I am adamantly opposed to, her stance on the environment is laughable at best.
Governing a state adjacent to Russia and claiming that gives you foreign policy experience is like saying I have foreign policy experience because I live in Southern California which is adjacent to Mexico. She's had a passport for less than three years and would probably toe the detrimental and overaggressive Neocon foreign policy were McCain to kick off.
She has a journalism degree that she went through five colleges to get and doesn't know what newspapers she reads; she has a poly sci minor and yet clearly isn't familiar with the constitution.
She basically represents everything that is wrong with the Republican party at this point in time taken to an absurd extreme. I'd rather leave the oval office vacant for four years than have her in there for any length of time.
I fail to buy the Republican fiscal conservative argument either, given the expansion of the debt under Bush Sr., Reagan and Bush Jr. while we ran a surplus under Clinton.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
I don't understand the fear of "spending" given the cost of the bullshit war, the bullshit financial fiasco, etcetera. How many trillions are we wasting now? If we're going to continue wasting them, we should at least educate some people and provide healthcare.
As for the abortion thing, once again I don't follow why this is even a political issue. Remember that Palin has a pregnant unmarried teen. That should not sit well with the Christian right, but somehow they overlook it. Who's supposed to educate their children about safe sex? And they whine about abortion...
Furthermore, you can't be telling me that you guys support her opinion on science, or should I say anti-science. Not a fan of curing diseases I guess. Fruit fly research probably trumped SNL for the next two months.
McCain I respectfully disagree with. Palin is just too damn dumb to be holding any kind of public office.
As for the abortion thing, once again I don't follow why this is even a political issue. Remember that Palin has a pregnant unmarried teen. That should not sit well with the Christian right, but somehow they overlook it. Who's supposed to educate their children about safe sex? And they whine about abortion...
Furthermore, you can't be telling me that you guys support her opinion on science, or should I say anti-science. Not a fan of curing diseases I guess. Fruit fly research probably trumped SNL for the next two months.
McCain I respectfully disagree with. Palin is just too damn dumb to be holding any kind of public office.
ABQShredHead
©1970
I see.
Breaking ties in the Senate is then making policy though, no?
Her performance in the debate showed a clear understanding of the Constitution as it regards to her position. Mr. Biden was the one making gaffes.
I live in New Mexico and work a good portion of my time in El Paso. I think I'm have much better foreign policy insight than you do.
I don't see her social issues views detrimental. In fact, her daughter owned up to her mistake and moved forward to face the future. She didn't cop out and "erase" her mistake like Obama comments he would even want his own daughters to do. Abstinence must be a choice made by the individual to follow through on. It doesn't matter so much what the parents preach to their child.
Clinton's work on the budget was admirable. Obama's proposals will lead to a dark depression.
Couple our current events with events from The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe, and a second look at going down the Obama road may be warranted. He is a direct path to Crisis for our country, either through painful programs and polarizing platforms, or through a potential violence event that will rip our country apart (do not accuse me of using that as a reason to not vote for him, mind you, since it is not - I merely point out the current situations of the county in respect to where events in that book put us). Either which way, the next 20 years for this county could be very dark indeed.
Breaking ties in the Senate is then making policy though, no?
Her performance in the debate showed a clear understanding of the Constitution as it regards to her position. Mr. Biden was the one making gaffes.
I live in New Mexico and work a good portion of my time in El Paso. I think I'm have much better foreign policy insight than you do.
I don't see her social issues views detrimental. In fact, her daughter owned up to her mistake and moved forward to face the future. She didn't cop out and "erase" her mistake like Obama comments he would even want his own daughters to do. Abstinence must be a choice made by the individual to follow through on. It doesn't matter so much what the parents preach to their child.
Clinton's work on the budget was admirable. Obama's proposals will lead to a dark depression.
Couple our current events with events from The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe, and a second look at going down the Obama road may be warranted. He is a direct path to Crisis for our country, either through painful programs and polarizing platforms, or through a potential violence event that will rip our country apart (do not accuse me of using that as a reason to not vote for him, mind you, since it is not - I merely point out the current situations of the county in respect to where events in that book put us). Either which way, the next 20 years for this county could be very dark indeed.
ABQShredHead
©1970
As I've underlined previously, Ken, I'm pointing to Obama's extremist support of partial-birth abortions where a viable fetus past the six-month mark is ripped from the womb, sometimes in pieces. The current view is that any baby can be aborted as long as the baby is still in the birth canal. That is absolutely sick! And again, my views on abortion are not religion-based - I hold it to the accountability of everybody to own their actions. Every decision has a consequence; likewise, every person has the right to choose to have sex or not have sex - the result of that decision should not be the one who pays with his/her life. I do not see it as a woman holding rights over her body to go through with an abortion and discard the "thing"; quite oppositely, she holds the rights over her body to be a part of the deed or to abstain if she is not at a point in her life where she can or wants to bring a baby into the world.
And the spending issue is the issues I have with the programs of the Democratic party. I find it interesting that people argue that government should not be involved in clear murder issues (again, the partial-birth thing) but the government involvement in all other aspects of individuals' lives is fine and dandy. To me, programs to offer monetary assistance to low-income individuals treats the symptoms and not the cause, and those individuals so treated will remain as they are today with no incentive to find their way out of their predicaments.
McCain's plan to freeze spending and eliminate waste, to me, is worlds better than the Democratic plan to spend money everywhere they can. McCain hit the nail on the head when he said tough financial times are not the times to raise taxes.
And the spending issue is the issues I have with the programs of the Democratic party. I find it interesting that people argue that government should not be involved in clear murder issues (again, the partial-birth thing) but the government involvement in all other aspects of individuals' lives is fine and dandy. To me, programs to offer monetary assistance to low-income individuals treats the symptoms and not the cause, and those individuals so treated will remain as they are today with no incentive to find their way out of their predicaments.
McCain's plan to freeze spending and eliminate waste, to me, is worlds better than the Democratic plan to spend money everywhere they can. McCain hit the nail on the head when he said tough financial times are not the times to raise taxes.
Please, stop humiliating yourself. Here is a youtube clip of the Palin gaffe.
"They're in charge of the United States Senate. So if they want to, they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes."
Stupidity of this level is an insult to the informed voter.
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Ascension
New Metal Member
What a waste of an education...and this guy would be one step away from the presidency...he doesn't even know general US history.
And this guy is supposed to be a foreign policy guru? He doesn't have a clue...any educated voter would see Biden as an idiot.
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
Not really, those in Congress who write and debate legislation are the ones that make policy...I wouldn't consider breaking an occasional tie to be "really getting in there with the senators and making good policy changes" as Palin stated
Obama gave a nuanced answer (read: not a black & white answer to a grey issue) in regards to abortion...he basically wants to reduce the number of abortions while retaining a woman's right to choose. Pro-choice doesn't automatically mean pro-abortion.
I am thankful I don't have to deal with this particular political debate, but I must say its looking really good for Obama, sadly any good president tends to be assasinated... So yeh!
ABQShredHead
©1970
Humiliating myself would be more along the lines of showing up to work forgetting my pants. I feel nothing similar through my comments. But, apparently, I don't think like a Liberal so I must therefore not be in the intelligent elite and I should feel humiliated for forming my own opinion. Hmmm... how humiliating.
Some quixotic bone in my body keeps responding to everything you say about this issue in the hopes that one day you'll understand the counter-argument. First of all, 90% of abortions occur within the first trimester so it's not as if late term abortions are happening left and right. What you say regarding taking responsibility and making the right decisions puts ALL the blame on women which is sexist. You also seem to think that abortions are like getting a tooth pulled or popping a zit when in fact having one is a gruesome process that takes weeks to recover from, and is not a thoughtless decision women undergo. McCain voted against the Murray amendment, which would require insurers to carry birth control (ultimately helping to prevent the need for abortions), yet they carry Viagra. Fair? Hmm...
Something to me that is absolutely sick is the fact that Sarah Palin has pushed for legislation that requires women to pay for their own rape kits. Could you imagine going to the police station, reporting that you've been violated in the worst way imaginable and then hearing "We'll find the guy who did this... alright, that'll be $250!" John McCain is the worst thing that could happen to women's rights.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
No, she thinks she would be in charge of the senate and generally, for some reason, [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l40nrw3V3GA]thinks she will have much more power than she actually ought to.[/ame]
Again, her misinterpretation of the first amendment and the role for which she is running is more problematic in my mind than gaffes by a senator known to mispeak/make gaffes with 37 years of experience.
I live in New Mexico and work a good portion of my time in El Paso. I think I'm have much better foreign policy insight than you do.
Probably, but again, Sarah Palin has zero foreign policy experience and I would be surprised if her inclination wasn't to pursue the exceedingly problematic neocon foreign policy we've tarnished the country's image with for the past eight years.
Regardless, I think her social views are far too conservative for the mainstream and likely out of touch with a large section of the country; again, I think her family's situation simply demonstrates that the abstinence-only approach is ineffective, her environmental policy is a joke at best and I could not possibly be more opposed to teaching creationism (religion masquerading as science) in public schools.
I also agree with Beelzebub that her failure to correct Wasilla's practice of charging rape victims for rape kits is truly repugnant.
Making assertions like the war in Iraq being a mission from God also tends to eliminate any chance of me ever supporting her as well.
People take issue with liberal social policies and Republicans have a tendency to run on values, but the McCain ticket doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on. McCain came back from the war a hero, but he still abandoned his first wife who was disfigured in a nasty car wreck while he was gone (and waited steadfastly for him to come back), only to marry Cindy a month later.
Again, I want proof of this rather than wild assertions and accusations. The McCain campaign's effort to paint Obama negatively in terms of economic policy and character during the last month has felt exceedingly pathetic and desperate to me. I place more value on Warren Buffet's endorsement than I do on John McCain's word which, at this point, is decreasing in what little value it still has by the day.
Again, this whole assertion seems suspect; your blanket assumption that Obama will force unnecessary programs on the country without regard for the ultimate state of the nation/good of the country is hard to swallow. Additionally, simply because you can piece events together to fit some framework established by one author to predict the future in a book written eleven years ago does not mean any of said authors assertions are necessarily likely; it is one book, not gospel.
ABQShredHead
©1970
Um, no, not at all. Quite the contrary actually. I feel it is the responsibility of both parties (all parties present, even) to know the consequences of their actions, and to take accountability for those actions. My argument above was in the framework of "a woman's right to choose for her body".
An interesting report has been published that shows a direct correlation between the slop currently available to watch on TV and the increasing rates of teenage pregnancies. In my mind, Hollywood has pushed the bounds too far regarding sexual behaviors and innuendos, and cleaning up the airwaves may contribute to fewer "issues" in our society.
I absolutely have no idea where that perception comes from. Do keep in mind that while I do not support abortion at all, the issue I am specifically talking about right now is partial-birth abortions, which I find absolutely horrendous. And especially after reading accounts of nurses and assistants exposed to such procedures, I find the concept sickening and I can't imagine how a doctor could do such a thing. (see Brenda Shafer's 1996 eye-witness testimony) I can only say that I empathize with issues of rape and incest, and my values have trouble getting around those events. But that should be taken care of well before the sixth month.
Perhaps their argument is that Viagra is to help couples conceive whereas birth control is for prevention? Couldn't tell you on that one, but I agree with your stance.
Quick question here - do you feel we could make more impact on crimes against women by reducing the availability to pornography? I simply ask the question because you brought up rape, another crime I find heinous. I'm all in favor of chemical castration, but that does nothing at all to help the woman through her terror. I would prefer to get to the source of the problem - typically the man (or at times woman) doing the raping.
Humiliating myself would be more along the lines of showing up to work forgetting my pants. I feel nothing similar through my comments. But, apparently, I don't think like a Liberal so I must therefore not be in the intelligent elite and I should feel humiliated for forming my own opinion. Hmmm... how humiliating.
You posted something that was factual wrong, it has nothing to do with your opinion.
ABQShredHead
©1970
Factually wrong?
Under the original code of Senate rules, the presiding officer exercised great power over the conduct of the body's proceedings. Rule XVI provided that "every question of order shall be decided by the President [of the Senate], without debate; but if there be a doubt in his mind, he may call for a sense of the Senate." Thus, contrary to later practice, the presiding officer was the sole judge of proper procedure and his rulings could not be turned aside by the full Senate without his assent.
--senate.gov
But, per the same document, the role of the VP has changed some, mostly due to the persons holding that position. Today's regard for the position is for the VP to sit there and watch the show, apparently. But, per the above, Palin's take is correct. Which, if your view of our government is to return to what the Founding Fathers intended (or at least your view thereof), I can see why one would interpret that paragraph as such.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
Exactly, it would be nothing short of embarrassing to elect her to such an important position.
ABQShredHead
©1970
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