Alec's Tavern : The Frost Blast

[Defiance]

yes, only now

it was on the shelves of a big cd/dvd/elettronics store, it was screaming loud "buy me!!!", the price was quite ok and it was the first digi-copy i saw in stores, so i let him persuade me

if i find the box i will buy it for sure (without selling the other )
you know i'm not into e-commerce that much...i use it as last resource!

Yeah I know what you mean, you just see the album there and it's as if it were calling you… buuuuuy meeeeeeeee, buuuuuuuy meeeeee!

Really? Why not?

Well, I didn't like the box that much hehehe, in retrospective I had to buy the Digi-pack. The necklace and patch weren't worth so much extra money, the bonus-cd featured the video's from YouTube and the mp3 version of the album. Talking about the MP3's. To be honest I had the MP3 album months before the album was released. One of the band-members visited a pub in Holland running by friend of mine. He gave the visitors the opportunity to listen to the new songs. But I couldn't be there so a friend of mine put the tracks on his mp3-player for me! The band-member didn't know this hehehe! But I respect the band and gave the tracks to nobody so the album didn't leak.

I agree that both bonus track should be on the album too, for me it's really illogical these tracks are bonus-tracks. It's not that these tracks sounds too much different from the other tracks that the cohesion of the album is in danger. I think it was decided to do this because of commercial reasons. Also the clean production (especially for a band like Borknagar) sounds for me like a step in the the direction of the commerce. I like the songs but the production and some the things I mentioned that are coming with this album, makes this for me the less interesting album of Borknagar.

Hey isn't that illegal? But oh well, lucky you who got to listen to it before us.
On the commercial thing: I totally disagree that a good production means that they're becoming more commercial. That's senseless to be honest, if you want "rough" production listen to Quintessence; it'd be a step back (IMO) to have an old-school production on the album, considering that the band has evolved so much musically.
The extra tracks, though, is definitely a commercial move. I'm fine with that, but why the fuck weren't those tracks in the digi? What bloody extras does the digi have? Only that it's digi? Rubbish, that's very unfair. It does incite piracy because most people can't afford the box, so they'll simply pirate the extra tracks. I do like the extra stuff of the box, I sometimes wear the necklace , and the patch is really nice (plan to sew it on my gabardine, along with my DT patch).

i understand what you mean. i'm not a big fan of extra deluxe editions, what i care mostly is music. so if i would buy the box it's only for the bonus tracks and not for gadgets. if i have to be honest i find myself a little bit unconfortable with big boxes , i don't know where to put them, i cannot put them on dedicated cd-shelves because they are too big and this disturbs me a little bit. they take too much space, and need extra attentions... i usually prefer a classic digipack to boxes. i always choose digipack if i can choose between a slipcase and a digi.

regarding bonus track i'm very sorry that coalition isn't included because i like it! now i'm gonna say something eretical but for me my domain should be the bonus track (together with loci) . it's not a part of the album as coalition. it should be a sort of reward for dying hard fans who buy the box, and in my opinion, not have a space in the official version, stealing coalitions' place.
i like the song, don't get me wrong, i think it's very epic and beautiful, but i think it clashes with the album mood, and belongs to another era.

YES!!!! My Domain is a great track, no doubt, but THAT should've been the extra one, not Coalition (my favourite one) or Loci. I do think it's part of the album, but as you said, it's another era, and should've not taken Coalition's place (a much better track to be honest).

Welcome to our un-moderated joy-fest! You'll find your stay enjoyable, however slightly off-topic at times and random.

I blame Defiance.

Hehe why? I never go off-topic, to be honest I feel attacked when you say that. But that probably has to do with me having persecution complex. What a horrible thing, you're on the bus and you think that everyone is talking about you, as if they were planning to attack you.

Oh.

 

[Allfader]

I blame Defiance.

Don't forget Lefay. She does the job pretty well too

@Lefay: Check your mail and try to get the Box. It's great

@Everyone: I'm pretty much agreed in the 'lameness' of the bonus tracks on Universal. I have the box and I bought it mainly for that, but the digi should have those tracks too. I wear the necklace as much as my Mjöllnir, I find it pretty cool. The patch is in one of my bass cases - together with the Vintersorg logo. The keychain is beautiful but I'm not using it (I have a bottle opener instead ) but I might use it too (Too much Borknagar love, doesn't?).

My Domain is one of the reasons that the album sells. There are too many Vortex and pre-Empiricism Borky fans that dreamt about to have it singing for the band again. 'Twas a very smart move.

About the production stuff, it really depends on the music style. Universal sounds to me 'better' than Empiricism and Epic production wise, but Emp's and Epic atmospheres are so much better. For tech death, metalcore and stuff like that I find the modern production works, but for bands who uses too many dynamics and mood/atmosphere changes, I prefer something more organic. About Borknagar, I find that S/T and TOD are the ones with best atmosphere, but they are the rawer soundwise talking.

I've noticed that some bands - new and old, specially on black metal - are trying to recapture that 90's 'airy' sound, like Galar, Nattsol, Alcest, October Falls, etx, while some others - the most commercial ones - are getting a lifeless clean sound. I would love to hear a new Borknagar album with a most atmospheric approach on the production.

@Defiance: you are probably the main perpetrator on the off-topic stuff, but it's not really that bad IMO. Thanx to that, some new threads were born - like the 'Geek' one - and the forum has a 'familiar' feel that the most of others don't, besides that's the only way to keep it alive... Vintersorg doesn't gig anymore and releases albums each 2-3 years. Mr V's side projects are mainly studio only and the Borknagar talking is done on their own forum, which is kept alive by almost the same people. We can just talk about ourselves or turn off-topic every small Update given by Andreas.

 

[lefay82]

Yeah I know what you mean, you just see the album there and it's as if it were calling you… buuuuuy meeeeeeeee, buuuuuuuy meeeeee!

Really? Why not?

yes, exactly!!!!! it was there for me, waiting for me to come and buy him!

Hey isn't that illegal? But oh well, lucky you who got to listen to it before us.
On the commercial thing: I totally disagree that a good production means that they're becoming more commercial. That's senseless to be honest, if you want "rough" production listen to Quintessence; it'd be a step back (IMO) to have an old-school production on the album, considering that the band has evolved so much musically.
The extra tracks, though, is definitely a commercial move. I'm fine with that, but why the fuck weren't those tracks in the digi? What bloody extras does the digi have? Only that it's digi? Rubbish, that's very unfair. It does incite piracy because most people can't afford the box, so they'll simply pirate the extra tracks. I do like the extra stuff of the box, I sometimes wear the necklace , and the patch is really nice (plan to sew it on my gabardine, along with my DT patch).

in the digipack version there's a second cd which contains the studio diary, mp3s and i don't remember what else....i haven't seen it for now.
but i would have prefered 1000 times to have the bonus tracks than the extra cd if i have to be honest. the extra cd would be more appropriate for the box in my opinion.

THAT[/B] should've been the extra one, not Coalition (my favourite one) or Loci. I do think it's part of the album, but as you said, it's another era, and should've not taken Coalition's place (a much better track to be honest).

exactly my thoughts!
i love coalition and also loci. but loci seems to be the most expendable between the two songs, being shorter and similar to an outro than a complete song.
so i would have choosen loci and my domain as bonus tracks.

Don't forget Lefay. She does the job pretty well too

@Lefay: Check your mail.

ahahah yes, that's true!!

i'm going to check it now!

 

[Morbides]

*drops by*
Thanks all for the warm welcome.

 

[Windvang]

Yeah I know what you mean, you just see the album there and it's as if it were calling you… buuuuuy meeeeeeeee, buuuuuuuy meeeeee!

Really? Why not?



Hey isn't that illegal? But oh well, lucky you who got to listen to it before us.
On the commercial thing: I totally disagree that a good production means that they're becoming more commercial. That's senseless to be honest, if you want "rough" production listen to Quintessence; it'd be a step back (IMO) to have an old-school production on the album, considering that the band has evolved so much musically.
The extra tracks, though, is definitely a commercial move. I'm fine with that, but why the fuck weren't those tracks in the digi? What bloody extras does the digi have? Only that it's digi? Rubbish, that's very unfair. It does incite piracy because most people can't afford the box, so they'll simply pirate the extra tracks. I do like the extra stuff of the box, I sometimes wear the necklace , and the patch is really nice (plan to sew it on my gabardine, along with my DT patch).



YES!!!! My Domain is a great track, no doubt, but THAT should've been the extra one, not Coalition (my favourite one) or Loci. I do think it's part of the album, but as you said, it's another era, and should've not taken Coalition's place (a much better track to be honest).




Hehe why? I never go off-topic, to be honest I feel attacked when you say that. But that probably has to do with me having persecution complex. What a horrible thing, you're on the bus and you think that everyone is talking about you, as if they were planning to attack you.

Oh.

Ow wait those bonustrack weren't on the digipack? Ok then it's ok I have the box hehehe
And yes, I totally agree with you and Lefay about My Domain as a bonustrack. Talking about the cohesion of the album that track definitely is a different from all the other tracks. I also think Loci is track that should be on the album. They always have an instrumental track like this on their albums. Not they have to put a track like this on their albums. But now they did written one and for me it's really strange to put such a typically song as a bonus track.

Well, 'good production' were not right chosen words indeed. I don't like this kind of mastering because now the sounds is less dynamic. Well, I like the raw sound of Borknagar. It's something that goes with Borknagar at their previous albums. In the beginning they had critics on it in reviews. I remember that Asgeir once said something like: that if you don't like this kind of sound you won't like the next albums too. Well, now we see Borknagar with the kind of production that all the popular bands got.

 

[Erik Erna]

Hehe why? I never go off-topic, to be honest I feel attacked when you say that. But that probably has to do with me having persecution complex. What a horrible thing, you're on the bus and you think that everyone is talking about you, as if they were planning to attack you.

Oh.

But...aren't they?

 

[Defiance]

yes, exactly!!!!! it was there for me, waiting for me to come and buy him!

in the digipack version there's a second cd which contains the studio diary, mp3s and i don't remember what else....i haven't seen it for now.
but i would have prefered 1000 times to have the bonus tracks than the extra cd if i have to be honest. the extra cd would be more appropriate for the box in my opinion.

exactly my thoughts!
i love coalition and also loci. but loci seems to be the most expendable between the two songs, being shorter and similar to an outro than a complete song.
so i would have chosen loci and my domain as bonus tracks.

Oh OK, not really worth it, is it? I still wonder why the heck they left out the bonus tracks.

*drops by*
Thanks all for the warm welcome.

Ohhh I hate your signature, I thought there were ants on my screen!!!

Ow wait those bonustrack weren't on the digipack? Ok then it's ok I have the box hehehe
And yes, I totally agree with you and Lefay about My Domain as a bonustrack. Talking about the cohesion of the album that track definitely is a different from all the other tracks. I also think Loci is track that should be on the album. They always have an instrumental track like this on their albums. Not they have to put a track like this on their albums. But now they did written one and for me it's really strange to put such a typically song as a bonus track.

Well, 'good production' were not right chosen words indeed. I don't like this kind of mastering because now the sounds is less dynamic. Well, I like the raw sound of Borknagar. It's something that goes with Borknagar at their previous albums. In the beginning they had critics on it in reviews. I remember that Asgeir once said something like: that if you don't like this kind of sound you won't like the next albums too. Well, now we see Borknagar with the kind of production that all the popular bands got.

Indeed, Loci should have been the closer, not My Domain. Actually, I would've placed Coalition, then Loci, and finally My Domain. Loci makes an excellent album closer, and My Domain would have sounded great after Loci. My Domain is, indeed, a nice song and all, totally over-rated to be honest, but it should've definitely been the bonus track.

One always wonders why a band makes choices like this. The same happened with me with DT's Fiction, I would've chosen other tracks as the bonus ones.

However, the decisions taken in this case don't seem to be very good. But hey, the band can do whatever they want .

Ah OK, that's different. The production certainly seems less "dynamic" than the previous albums, especially when compared with Epic. I prefer the latter's production, by a lot. The difference is quite noticeable to be honest. I think that the production of Universal is good, but it could've, no, should've, been much better. The album sounds way too flat at times. Seriously, there are times in which the guitars are barely noticeable. The drums seem a bit flat too, but I think that the guitars suffered a lot due to the production. Which is a shame, since I think Jens and Øystein did an excellent job.

I wouldn't mind a "remastered" edition to be honest, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

[lefay82]

Oh OK, not really worth it, is it? I still wonder why the heck they left out the bonus tracks.

don't know. anyway the digi is nicer and it costed the same price as the slipcase, so why not?

Indeed, Loci should have been the closer, not My Domain. Actually, I would've placed Coalition, then Loci, and finally My Domain. Loci makes an excellent album closer, and My Domain would have sounded great after Loci. My Domain is, indeed, a nice song and all, totally over-rated to be honest, but it should've definitely been the bonus track.

One always wonders why a band makes choices like this. The same happened with me with DT's Fiction, I would've chosen other tracks as the bonus ones.

However, the decisions taken in this case don't seem to be very good. But hey, the band can do whatever they want .

i would have placed my domain first and then loci. loci seems to be more appropriate as ending, after all it's not really an instrumental song.
i find it could really fit as outro.

anyway we can talk about this for hours and hours, but decisions have been taken... good or bad, they seemed to be the right ones to take for the group at the moment so we have to accept them in a way or another

 

[Erik Erna]

Its like In Flames' A Sense Of Purpose. I feel Tilt and Eraser are better than several tracks on the album.

 

[Defiance]

^ Wait, you like new In Flames? I can barely stand the tracks on Used and Abused (Live). I do like Superhero of the Computer Rage (or whatever the title is), it's an excellent song. I just wish all of the new stuff were like that.

 

[Azzor1911]

I do too, their work from the debut album up until 2000's Clayman are, in my opinion, among the best melodic death metal ever. The later stuff just keeps getting worse along a steep downwards trend though.

 

[Defiance]

I do too, their work from the debut album up until 2000's Clayman are, in my opinion, among the best melodic death metal ever. The later stuff just keeps getting worse along a steep downwards trend though.

Worse is an understatement , Clayman is their last decent work; Whoracle is the best one IMO.

 

[Defiance]

Wellit's one of the most expensive country in Europe along with Norway.. and more expensive since the financial crisis. Food prices have nearly doubled..


Both houses and apartments.. The major city area has been getting denser, but there are some green areas in between.

Yes it's a wise choice. We have used some of the high pressure areas and now there is a debate to use more of them due to the crisis, but it may be too risky financially and there are some delicate, pristine areas in danger.



Bleurgh! Sea Sheperd.. They are hated in the Faroes and Iceland. It's hypocritical to be tolerant of eating cows and sheep and not whales. These whales stranded and were bound for a long painful death. The method of killing is a special knife that rips through the spinal chord ensuring that the animals die instantly(most of the time).

Yeah Iceland was hit really hard by the "financial crisis", especially because of the banks. Basically some guys stole a lot of money, and there was no control whatsoever of the loans. However, since Iceland (Scandinavia in general) are some of the few countries (only ones?) in the world were the people have actual power; the problems with the banking system were quickly corrected, which is, I believe, admirable.

I do agree with the methods that the Sea Shepherd uses, despite it's growing popularity. However, I don't agree with the way food (i.e. cows) is managed in the U.S.

My point is:

1) Iceland, Norway, Japan and related countries should not kill whales because most of them are endangered. It was fine to do it before, but not now when there's such immense human over-population and so few whales.

2) The US has probably the WORST food industry in the world concerning pollution and the destruction of the environment. I suggest watching Food Inc. to see how things are there. To put it short, cows are fed the king of kings, corn, instead of grass. They're kept in small corrals, essentially crapping on each other. In the documentary that I mentioned before you can see the cows living/walking with crap up to their knees.

So both parts are wrong, Iceland shouldn't kill whales, and the US should control their over-population and their food industry.

yes, i've heard you suffered a lot from the crisis. and i knew also that iceland is pretty expensive (i suppose it's also because it's an island and a lot of goods must be imported from the continent) what i really meant to ask is: is this expensiveness rightly compared with salaries or not? i mean, are you able to live with high or low life standars? are salaries enought high to live there or you have to struggle to reach the end of the month?

this is a problem we have here in italy. even if life is less expensive than in other european countries, like scandinavian ones, we have very low salaries, and there's a deep gap between life cost and people's real possibilities.
the euro have destroyed partially our economy, because prices have doubled and salaries have remained the same, only converted in the new money. so...on balance it's like our salaries have been halved.

I really doubt that most Scandinavians have problems "reaching" the end of the month, perhaps Sweden a bit (since it was hit a bit with the financial crisis). Those are truly developed countries, and I'm sure most people have high living standards.

Yeah the Euro destroyed Greece, Italia and España. It was, au fond, a way to exercise political dominion over "less-prepared" countries, such as the ones I mentioned before. It was, fundamentally, a way for Germany and France to conquer Europe (sorry! ). I've been to Italia, and it was the closest to a 3rd-world country that I saw in Europe; España is much better off to be honest (despite having 20% unemployment).

 

[Djöfull]

You are regurgitating senseless propaganda.

Most whales are not endangered. Some baleen/mysticeti are and a few odontoceti/tooth whale are. The mink whale that Iceland, Japan and Norway(exclusively) hunt has never been considered endangered and has a population of at least 100.000 in the northeast Atlantic and worldwide.. who knows. The yearly hunt is about 150 in Iceland. The same number goes for the fin whale which has been recently hunted. That is controversial as some consider it endangered. However the population has recovered in recent decades.
The pilot whale that the faroese hunt is in the hundreds of thousands in the northeast Atlantic.


The sea covers 70% of the surface of the earth... and the few countries that do hunt(Iceland, Norway, Japan, Greenland + some indigenous groups in Canada and the US that hunt within an allocated quota from the IWC) do so around the seas of their country. Indonesia is the only country in the Southern Hemisphere with a whaling industry and many species are present in most of the earth's ocean.

What has human overpopulation has to do with whaling? Most countries do neither hunt nor eat whales. The US is a big country, so I can't see why you see an overpopulation there...


I haven't seen Food. Inc. Been meaning to It is built upon the book The omnivores dilemma I read.

Regarding the financial crisis. I haven't heard that Sweden was hit by the crisis more than other countries. And the banking system in Iceland was kind of rebuilt but people are still struggling with loans that are tied to the inflation. Banks changed executives and names.. but people don't trust them entirely.

 

[Defiance]

You are regurgitating senseless propaganda.

Most whales are not endangered. Some baleen/mysticeti are and a few odontoceti/tooth whale are. The mink whale that Iceland, Japan and Norway(exclusively) hunt has never been considered endangered and has a population of at least 100.000 in the northeast Atlantic and worldwide.. who knows. The yearly hunt is about 150 in Iceland. The same number goes for the fin whale which has been recently hunted. That is controversial as some consider it endangered. However the population has recovered in recent decades.
The pilot whale that the faroese hunt is in the hundreds of thousands in the northeast Atlantic.


The sea covers 70% of the surface of the earth... and the few countries that do hunt(Iceland, Norway, Japan, Greenland + some indigenous groups in Canada and the US that hunt within an allocated quota from the IWC) do so around the seas of their country. Indonesia is the only country in the Southern Hemisphere with a whaling industry and many species are present in most of the earth's ocean.

What has human overpopulation has to do with whaling? Most countries do neither hunt nor eat whales. The US is a big country, so I can't see why you see an overpopulation there...


I haven't seen Food. Inc. Been meaning to It is built upon the book The omnivores dilemma I read.

Regarding the financial crisis. I haven't heard that Sweden was hit by the crisis more than other countries. And the banking system in Iceland was kind of rebuilt but people are still struggling with loans that are tied to the inflation. Banks changed executives and names.. but people don't trust them entirely.

It's not senseless propaganda. Around the seas of their country? Please, Japan has had constant problems with Australia because the Australians have caught Jap boats fishing in Australian waters.

I admit I didn't know much about the types of whales killed in Scandinavia, I'll look up more info on that. Still, a lot of whales are endangered. Not all, but a lot.

Blah, so you're one of those people that think that over-population means that "whether people can fit in a place or not"? That's a very ignorant perception. Remember that it's not really about that, but about the resources that exist in the planet (food, petrol) too keep those people and their living standards alive. Example? I simply wonder how the heck will Iceland survive without petrol. Considering how it was affected by the recent crisis, I can't imagine how you'll survive when there's not a drop left.

On the financial crisis (FC), the thing was that (I think) on the DT forum someone said that Sweden was having a tough time due to the FC, but I don't know whether it was true or not. I'm pretty sure Iceland was hit a lot more, though. Yeah the banks changed a lot, which is good (that wouldn't happen anywhere in the world), but obviously people aren't going to trust them so much anymore.

 

[Djöfull]

The japanese violating international law is a valid point. But that does'nt change the fact that they mostly hunt mink whales and a vast area of the ocean is unaffected by whaling. The whaling nations are what 5 and maybe 5 indigenous groups that hunt occasionally.. that is out of 200 nations.
Figures from a few years ago show that 16% of whales are endangered. The numbers hunted are improbable to affect the sustainability of most of the species hunted by the "major" whaling nations.

I didn't realise you were talking about overpopulation in regard to the overconsumption of resources.

I simply wonder how the heck will Iceland survive without petrol. Considering how it was affected by the recent crisis, I can't imagine how you'll survive when there's not a drop left.

Well... there are some decades left until that happens.. maybe more. Anyway there has been an experiment here on hydrogen buses. Also electric cars( they have to be charged often compared to petrol). Then there are "twin" cars that alternate between petrol and electricity.

 

[lefay82]

i think it sounds strange to us because we're not used to eat whale's meat but you should keep in mind that this use belongs from a long time to those folk who hunt them, at least they kill them for food....
if you really care about animal than you should not eat also foie gras (which is obtainted by a forced overfeeding that procures illnesses to duck's livers, they are feeded by a tube which is forced into their throats) or you should not use some cometics products tested on animals, or should not wear leathers or furs....people illtreats animals in so many ways nowadays

 

[Agah]

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

 

[Thidrek]

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

Yes, we are. But the meat industry is just disgusting.
I'm not vegetarian, so as a consumer I'm a part of it as well, but I at least try to only buy organic meat. That's a thing I can live with for now.

 

[Defiance]

The japanese violating international law is a valid point. But that does'nt change the fact that they mostly hunt mink whales and a vast area of the ocean is unaffected by whaling. The whaling nations are what 5 and maybe 5 indigenous groups that hunt occasionally.. that is out of 200 nations.
Figures from a few years ago show that 16% of whales are endangered. The numbers hunted are improbable to affect the sustainability of most of the species hunted by the "major" whaling nations.

I didn't realise you were talking about overpopulation in regard to the overconsumption of resources.


Well... there are some decades left until that happens.. maybe more. Anyway there has been an experiment here on hydrogen buses. Also electric cars( they have to be charged often compared to petrol). Then there are "twin" cars that alternate between petrol and electricity.

Indeed, of all the whaling countries, Japan is the worst. They use "culture" and related excuses in order to go over-seas and kill endangered whales. 16% is a lot, whales are wonderful mammals and humans suck for killing them.

Well, over-population = over-consumption of resources. Of course, even if there's no over-pop there can still be over-consumption of resources.

I think that the real petrol crisis will start ca. 2030, but little action is being taken in order to avoid that. Which is good because world population right now is 6 bil., but when we run out of petrol the world, with today's living standards, will be able to sustain only 2 bil. (source: Life without Oil, A Crude Awakening).

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

I'm not saying we're not, I think that being a vegetarian is BS. I believe that humans evolved a lot when they started eating meat (or maybe it was the monolith… ), and meat is necessary in order to survive.

Yes, we are. But the meat industry is just disgusting.
I'm not vegetarian, so as a consumer I'm a part of it as well, but I at least try to only buy organic meat. That's a thing I can live with for now.

Indeed, it's not about eating cows or not; it's about the industry's standards, how they feed and treat the animals. Again, in the US cows are over-fed with corn (whatever happened to good ol' grass?), living in their own faeces up to their knees. So no, it's not about the cows, it's everything that happens in order for you to have that tasty hamburger in your plate.