The Evil Toucan
[NOTNO]Parrot
Orchid said:
That's what the Christian belief is; that is if you weren't being sarcastic, and seeing as how I don't know you I'm not sure whether you were or not.
Any Christian Opeth fans????
- Thread starter benjikong
- Start date
That's what the Christian belief is; that is if you weren't being sarcastic, and seeing as how I don't know you I'm not sure whether you were or not.
Orchid
Nonchalant Onlooker
The Evil Toucan said:
I wasn't being sarcastic, honestly.
Like I said in my earlier post, I'm interested in how members of certain religions view their own religion, and what they think about their holy texts.
But, if all you have to do to "earn" a place in Heaven ("earn" is a wrong word, I know now, but I'll use it anyway) is to let Jesus into your heart, then why bother with all the moral issues of Christianity? Or does it work like "when you let Jesus into your heart, you will automatically try to do the right thing, always." ?
Just for the record: I'm not a religious person. I'm an agnostic wanna-be zen-buddhist.
Since, you know, all Christians and/or Christian denominations (Catholic, Baptist, Born-Again, Mormon, etc) believe in a literal, word-for-word interpretation of the bible.*LuminousAether said:
HINT: Most (or at least a large number, including Catholicism) do not.
The Evil Toucan
[NOTNO]Parrot
Orchid said:
The Christian belief is that man is inherently full of sin and is heading towards chaos, ever since the Fall. God cleansed the Earth once with Noah's Flood, and it still wasn't good enough, so He sent down His only Son to die for the sins of the entire world, and Jesus rose again three days after(you probably know the story). Once someone believes this, they are 'saved' from eternal damnation in Hell. Now, there are people who believe that, who are Christians, and then there are people who really live with Christ in them--the difference being that those people are really hardcore about their beliefs. You wouldn't catch them on the Opeth board. They would take all of their secular cds and burn them, etc etc. I am a Christian, but I'm not that devout.
Orchid
Nonchalant Onlooker
The Evil Toucan said:
Yeah, I know the story. Finland is a "Christian country", i.e. every kid is taught about Christianity in the school; we read the Bible (well, shortened stories, with pictures to keep the supposed interest up, and so on) in lower grades (1st through 6th), et cetera, which is wrong if you ask me. I think everyone should be "spared" of such brainwashing until they're mature enough to decide themself what they want to believe (in).
All right. I think I understand it now.
I've always known it, but I still think that God is one angry dude/dudette/figure. He kills most part of His creation in order to cleanse man of sin... even though man is inherently full of sin (and hence it is, logically, impossible to cleanse man of sin). I find that contradictionary, but then again, there are myriads of things in Christianity (and Jewdaism too, naturally) which I find contradictory and confusing.
Hehehe, I wouldn't think so either.
fadingessence
All is Lost
see now heres the problem...I know you would love to go around and say you just don't mix the two ideas and everyone can be happy but I hate to tell ya that things don't work like that. You can't just sit there and say you support anti-christian music and then backtrack and say you are a christian. You can't just keep the two opinions seperate because they are inherantly connected. Instead you are taking the cheap and irresponsible way out by trying to say you can like black metal and be a christian, which is hypocritical at best, and makes the so called christian morals you carry with you basically irrelevant. This argument isn't about my personal beliefs, but the hypocrisy that seems to be imbedded in every christian I have ever met. The moral values are there but they are allowed to be bent at every turn. Thou shall not kill...unless we need to fight a war. Thou shall not steal...unless I am a politician...unless I run a church money scam ect ect. If you proclaim yourself to be a christian and you still maintain that somehow you can respect black metal then your moral beliefs mean shit because they simply don't exist. At that point it isn't even a matter of God existing or not the fact is you either believe one thing or you don't and anything else is an easy way out.
I'll say it again, you are choosing pleasure (listening to music you "like") over your moral/religious beliefs and are also choosing to not be responsible for your actions by stating that the two are seperate..which is a lie and a cop out.
Personally I don't care, I think the world would be a better place without this silly notion of the christian god that is so contrived it makes one sick. Look at the history of how christianity came around, look at everything it borrows from other religions, look at how nicely it fits into the picture as accepted after the roman empire started declining...the first thing you notice is that it fits TOO well. It was taylor made for followers to be the best possible religious solution and everyone followed it. Every supposed religion before it was denounced and someone this one, becuase it lasted 2000 years or something, is the right out. Thats just fallacy. The people of this world look too much to the next one out of their fear for the world we live in and thus we fail to do anything worthwhile in this life. Christianity is weakness and pity over pride in yourself and strength in power of humanity. It places everything on some false god so we don't have to worry about a damn thing, so everything is in HIS hands and not on ours, as if every damn rapper that thanks god got his talent from some heavenly being, as if the supreme being of all the universe is essentially a human character with super powers. Religion is simmply a psychological need of humans that are too weak in themselves to accept responsibility for their actions and too afraid of the prospect of death to do anything in this life except try to fulfill some prophecy of making the next so called life better.
i'm done...glad someone brought this up I always like a good rant.
I'll say it again, you are choosing pleasure (listening to music you "like") over your moral/religious beliefs and are also choosing to not be responsible for your actions by stating that the two are seperate..which is a lie and a cop out.
Personally I don't care, I think the world would be a better place without this silly notion of the christian god that is so contrived it makes one sick. Look at the history of how christianity came around, look at everything it borrows from other religions, look at how nicely it fits into the picture as accepted after the roman empire started declining...the first thing you notice is that it fits TOO well. It was taylor made for followers to be the best possible religious solution and everyone followed it. Every supposed religion before it was denounced and someone this one, becuase it lasted 2000 years or something, is the right out. Thats just fallacy. The people of this world look too much to the next one out of their fear for the world we live in and thus we fail to do anything worthwhile in this life. Christianity is weakness and pity over pride in yourself and strength in power of humanity. It places everything on some false god so we don't have to worry about a damn thing, so everything is in HIS hands and not on ours, as if every damn rapper that thanks god got his talent from some heavenly being, as if the supreme being of all the universe is essentially a human character with super powers. Religion is simmply a psychological need of humans that are too weak in themselves to accept responsibility for their actions and too afraid of the prospect of death to do anything in this life except try to fulfill some prophecy of making the next so called life better.
i'm done...glad someone brought this up I always like a good rant.
Anarkissed
BOK CHOY!!!
Well first i wanna say that yeah, i'm Christian.
In some ways i can say that i'm strong in my faith, in a way that i never use 'His name in vain', like 'oh my God' and all that, i refrain from saying it. On the other hand, I do swear a lot, it's just part of my nature. I do believe that by saying 'fuck' is less of a sin than saying things like that.
Another point that should be said is that by being a Christian, nobody in this earth is a perfect being. Everyone does things that they shouldn't do, whether it be intentional or not. I listen to all sorts of music, including black metal (not a lot though, but that's only because i don't prefer the style as much as others, in the same way that i don't like most classical music) - this is because i can accept the views of others. If a band wants to display their anti-Christian or pagan views, they can do that, i'm not gonna stop them. It's their choice.
Some Christians, like the ones you see on many websites, basically point out that you are blind and ignorant if you do not believe in Jesus as your saviour. It is an extremely jaded (is that the right word?) opinion and does not give Christianity a good name - i am not a superior being, nor is any other person who believes in God.
The bible does seem extremely unbelievable at many, countless times (raising people from the dead, creating the world, including man in 7 days, etc.). It should not be taken so literally. Like a song, the bible is often written in poetry. The book of Genesis says that each day for seven days, 'God created the heavens and the earth', blah blah. This is obviously impossible. It is never really said how long each 'day' is. For all we know, each day could be several billion years, letting the processes of evolution to take place. I believe that God was more a catalyst for this chain of events, rather than a direct 'sculpturer', or whatever you wannacall it. The bible relies very often on symbolism, it is not a story book told in black and white.
'White' metal or Christian metal is often looked down upon by some because of what the metal culture is...usually directed at the darker sides of life, and that Christian metal should not be done because of it's totally opposite view on life, therefore people think that it cannot be true metal. However, the bible even says that we should 'praise God with loud shouts and cymbals' (not a direct quote, can't remember the exact line). Christian metal is another culture. Sure it copies the style, but isn't that how all music evolves? A new genre is often created because they take a certain style of music, but totally change a certain aspect of it. No matter how much you might not like it, nu metal came about because of heavy metal, they co-exist because they both have similarities. Christian metal simply has the sound of other styles of metal but usually have a lighter perspective on the lyrics. It can still be dark and gothic, but dark does not necessarily mean evil.
Just thought i'd take this opportunity to write down my views. I'm not an expert who knows everything about Christianity, but these are my interpretations of what i believe.
Edit: added a few things and just thought i'd add to this, if there's one thing in this world that i'm opposed to, it's conservatism. I got told off by some old guy in my church for simply playing a riff that was in a minor key. some people just dont understand...
In some ways i can say that i'm strong in my faith, in a way that i never use 'His name in vain', like 'oh my God' and all that, i refrain from saying it. On the other hand, I do swear a lot, it's just part of my nature. I do believe that by saying 'fuck' is less of a sin than saying things like that.
Another point that should be said is that by being a Christian, nobody in this earth is a perfect being. Everyone does things that they shouldn't do, whether it be intentional or not. I listen to all sorts of music, including black metal (not a lot though, but that's only because i don't prefer the style as much as others, in the same way that i don't like most classical music) - this is because i can accept the views of others. If a band wants to display their anti-Christian or pagan views, they can do that, i'm not gonna stop them. It's their choice.
Some Christians, like the ones you see on many websites, basically point out that you are blind and ignorant if you do not believe in Jesus as your saviour. It is an extremely jaded (is that the right word?) opinion and does not give Christianity a good name - i am not a superior being, nor is any other person who believes in God.
The bible does seem extremely unbelievable at many, countless times (raising people from the dead, creating the world, including man in 7 days, etc.). It should not be taken so literally. Like a song, the bible is often written in poetry. The book of Genesis says that each day for seven days, 'God created the heavens and the earth', blah blah. This is obviously impossible. It is never really said how long each 'day' is. For all we know, each day could be several billion years, letting the processes of evolution to take place. I believe that God was more a catalyst for this chain of events, rather than a direct 'sculpturer', or whatever you wannacall it. The bible relies very often on symbolism, it is not a story book told in black and white.
'White' metal or Christian metal is often looked down upon by some because of what the metal culture is...usually directed at the darker sides of life, and that Christian metal should not be done because of it's totally opposite view on life, therefore people think that it cannot be true metal. However, the bible even says that we should 'praise God with loud shouts and cymbals' (not a direct quote, can't remember the exact line). Christian metal is another culture. Sure it copies the style, but isn't that how all music evolves? A new genre is often created because they take a certain style of music, but totally change a certain aspect of it. No matter how much you might not like it, nu metal came about because of heavy metal, they co-exist because they both have similarities. Christian metal simply has the sound of other styles of metal but usually have a lighter perspective on the lyrics. It can still be dark and gothic, but dark does not necessarily mean evil.
Just thought i'd take this opportunity to write down my views. I'm not an expert who knows everything about Christianity, but these are my interpretations of what i believe.
Edit: added a few things and just thought i'd add to this, if there's one thing in this world that i'm opposed to, it's conservatism. I got told off by some old guy in my church for simply playing a riff that was in a minor key. some people just dont understand...
IanDork107
I wrote a book! Buy it!
Faith is the most detestable of human attributes. I don't hate much, but I do honestly think that being proud to have abandoned logic and instead believe in glorified fairy tales because your parents told you to is fucking repulsive. I have little to no respect for the vast majority of religious people, but if your self-proclaimed ideology and your actions are incongruous, such as listening to music that blatantly bashes something that, were you to be a "true" christian, you'd devote your entire life to, well, that's fucking weak. I can have some small respect for people who truly understand what they believe in and live according to it. It doesn't change the fact that they're brainwashed fucking cattle, but at least they know passion.
I truly don't see how people can be so easily decieved into believing in this garbage known as religion. It's all so very clearly irrational and juvenile. I guess maybe I have too high of hopes for the human race, but it's so astonishing how many people attach themselves to one form of jargon or another just so they can feel hope since their self image has been crushed to nothing by their religion or so they can belong to something. Wake the fuck up.
I truly don't see how people can be so easily decieved into believing in this garbage known as religion. It's all so very clearly irrational and juvenile. I guess maybe I have too high of hopes for the human race, but it's so astonishing how many people attach themselves to one form of jargon or another just so they can feel hope since their self image has been crushed to nothing by their religion or so they can belong to something. Wake the fuck up.
Grimm
New Metal Member
benjikong said:
yes. and if our paths ever cross i shall proceed to kill you and laugh very loudly.
pagan2002
danny cavanagh
if i was you i would lose your christian faith for the simple reason that it is not true.benjikong said:
if you want to know about god, then you are looking in the wrong place. god is even the wrong word.
nature is where its at.
from the atom to the universe, and beyond.
christianity is really quite a big smoke-screen.
but i dont expect you to change, it might be too much for you to change deep rooted convictions. and people are afraid of what they don't understand are they not?
...heres where the christians say i am afraid because i dont understand jesus.
not true!
love from danny cavanagh.
pagan2002
danny cavanagh
Grimm
New Metal Member
pagan2002 said:
i recommend you be quiet, otherwise you might be next on the list of proposed killings, and you wouldn't want that now would you?
Anarkissed
BOK CHOY!!!
IanDork107 said:
I am a person of logic, when i read a passage in the bible, i form it into a more reasonable explanation. Jesus supposedly raised someone from the dead. Perhaps that person was unconscious and He somehow managed to perform CPR. Ok, that's a weak example, but i base my readings upon things like that.
Define a 'true' Christian. Am I not living 'according to' it by listening to music on the radio that is not Christian? A 'true' Christian in my view accepts what others believes. If we weren't allowed to associate with anything non-Christian then we would not be able to hang out with non-Christian friends. The bible does notsay that it is a sin to be associated with secular surroundings.
I chose my beliefs because i know my soul will go somewhere when i die. To think that you live your whole life, through love, pain, happiness and suffering, simply just to end up decomposing in soil is even more unbelievable. Now don't anybody give me that 'how can there be a heaven, we've already seen above the clouds' crap. it's a change in state of existence, not a change of destination.
i hope you don't find any offense to this, if u do i apologize.
ControlledChaos
Unbleeding
Interesti said:
Wrong. God created man as perfect and without sin, and it says God created man for fellowship with God. However, God basically (my paraphrase) didn't want a robot who would do exactly as he asked all the time, he wanted someone who would follow him through their own free will. So (here comes the review kids) he tells Adam and Eve, "You can have every frickin' thing in this garden, EVERY THING, except that one tree over there." God gave man free will to choose his own path, and once Adam and Eve ate the fruit of that tree (tree of the knowledge of good and evil) suddenly they knew what sin was and that's what started the whole thing.
God didn't try to "save" anyone by drowning them. It says that he sent the flood because basically all of mankind (albeit Noah and family) were incredibly wicked and basically beyond help, whereas Noah was righteous. (That doesn't mean he was sinless it means he followed God basically).
So, your argument is ignorant. Incorrect, pal.
