Any Christian Opeth fans????

[benjikong]

I don't like Burzum or Emperor. I said in my original post that I don't support people who burn churches, and/or kill people. My favorite bands are less harsh on christianity than the bands I mentioned earlier. I was merely trying to point out that I like their music as well as christian metal bands. Most of my favorites aren't harsh on christianity, musically. As a matter of fact, some of my favorites are christian. My favorites are Metallica, Opeth, Black Sabbath, Megadeth, Extol, etc. I don't worship any musicians. I, also, believe that God has no problem w/ me not choosing to avoid something just because I don't agree with it. I'm not a member of the church. I am a member of the faith. I have faith more than religion. Music is my favorite art, and I dedicate my music to God, but I don't rule out something that I enjoy listening to, just because I don't agree w/ the lyricist. I'm ok w/ people not liking christianity. I didn't expect knotheads to be telling me that God is gonna put me in hell, because I listen to a few anti-christian artists. I'm glad that I found a few christion metal fans on this board. My purpose was to see if there were, and there are. To those who have attacked me for my beliefs: Don't fuck with my faith, if I haven't fucked w/ yours.

 

[AndICried]

youre talking about the old testament
do you really know what grace is?

I don't remember saying I knew what grace was, but humor me. Also, shed light on its significance over my remark, if it is unclear...

I don't like Burzum or Emperor. I said in my original post that I don't support people who burn churches, and/or kill people. My favorite bands are less harsh on christianity than the bands I mentioned earlier.

...You don't seriously view God's law as a form of "brownie points" do you?
You lose say 5 points for listening to Burzum, so just to be safe, you listen to Dimmu Borgir, only losing yourself 3 points... Some of the bands you say you like are clear in their anti-Chrisitian morals.

Ok, here are some contradicting quotes:

"...God has no problem w/ me not choosing to avoid something just because I don't agree with it." and "I love metal music, and as long as your not killing people, or burning churches (two reasons I didn't add emperor to my list)" -- Statement one says that it's ok to disagree with the band's morals yet listen to them. Statement two says that it's not ok to support (the only possible implication of "support" being "listen to") bands because of their morals.

"and I dedicate my music to God, but I don't rule out something that I enjoy listening to, just because I don't agree w/ the lyricist." -- So a great song, which might have Satanic themes you dedicate to God? The lyrics represent the theme of a song, so cannot just be brushed aside.

"I'm not judgemental." and "I don't like Burzum or Emperor." and "I didn't expect knotheads..."

If you follow the bible, you should NOT listen to bands promoting Satan. It shouldn't be "Well, if the band is has a Satan factor of 7 then it's ok, but when they have a satan factor of 9, then no way!" I'd say that in their music Dimmu Borgir are more anti-Christian than Emperor anyway...

So, you've basically shown that you disagree with a large portion of the Bible, in the future you should probably say something like "I'm religious", "I believe in God" or "I believe in the holy trinity". Saying "I'm a Christian" is very misleading.

(Forgive my terrible spelling and grammar, as it's 3 am, and I need some more caffeine. And don't take this post as a personal attack, although I am trying to convert you (and failing ).)

 

[Anarkissed]

On contradictions in the bible...
The bible was written by many, many people and compiled over a long period of time. It is a fact that every translation is a step away from the original, Hebrew scripture. The fact that the bible is so large shows that it is almost impossible to do a 100% perfect translation. Also there's the different interpretations from the King James Version to the NIV bible. I think that the KJV version says the devil's name is sixty threescore 6 or something along those lines (in other words, it means 600 + 60 + 6). the NIV directly translates that as 666. This leads to misinterpretation that the number is simply three 6s in a row. When we look at writings about things like 'www' being 666, (because of the Hebrew equivalent of W is 6), it should not be described as the mark of the beast.

In the past there have been obvious mistranslations, such as the 10 commandments. One bible had it written as 'thou shalt commit adultery'. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Immortal Death]

...I am a Satanist (Lavey-ist).

 

[Immortal Death]

I just don't like black metal in general. What I've heard from Emperor has had really dire production with laughable vocals and barely audible guitars. I can listen to Dissection as they seem to have decent production and some good fat riffs, but Emperor, COF, Darkthrone etc all seem to have really thin guitars and terrible screechy singing (and shitty keyboards)

Still, it's just my opinion! I've tried listening to black metal but just cant get it

Initially, I felt the same way. It can grow on you... if you let it.

 

[PHalse proFit]

i think basically everythings been covered (christians who like opeth = hipocrits, etc) so i have a simple solution, all metal fans who beleive in the christian faith should go here: www.metalforjesus.org
and all atheist, satanist or pagan members should stay here, lol

heh, but seriously, i think its incredibly hipocritical for a christian to listen to music like opeth, emperor, etc, because the things those bands express are the very things christianity tries to stop you from feeling, i also think the artist should be separated from the art, i think that murdering someone is wrong, but i still listen to emperor and dissection, both of which have members who have murdered people.

this is a clear example of how christianity is nothing but a security blanket for the weak minded, people can manipulate the beleifs and warp them into the state that suits them best, even though it goes against the very basis of what they beleive, and still consider themselves christians because they reap some benefits (spiritual security, etc) from it, i find this repulsive and weak, but thats just my opinion.

yep

 

[Dusk]

(Forgive my terrible spelling and grammar, as it's 3 am, and I need some more caffeine. And don't take this post as a personal attack, although I am trying to convert you (and failing ).)

the thing i find funny....and i'm not personally attacking you with this, it was just representative of what i am pointing out here.... is that people come down on christianity for stuffing their beleifs down others throats.
Yet, at every opportunity, these people tell christians how pathetically stupid they are and do their best to point out the hypocritical and questionable points contained in the bible and their system of beliefs in an effort to open their eyes to the stupidity of christianity.

Argueing that metal is only for non christians is as stupid as arguing that metal is only for white people. Unless you say that all metal inherantly, actively and overtly opposes all things christian (ie is satanic) and then...yeah, your arguement against christianity then becomes a little less convincing once you profess to 'worship the dark lord himself lUCIFER the son of the morning!!!!!!!!!!!!'... hehe

Let people beleive what they want, is it effecting you if a christian listens to opeth? no. In this case i don't see the point of you all argueing if not to shove your beliefs down someone elses throat. THAT is what i find repulsive, that is what i find dispicable.

The christian is just about the only person not to preach their beliefs, funny...

I usually avoid these threads because they really lead no where so i wont go any further, just wanted to make a point...i may have failed miserably.

Once again, no attacking anyone personally, but leave the christian alone eh? he was just asking if their was any other christains into opeth, not planning a way baptise the entire patronage of the ultimatemetal forum or asking for a heated religious debate, i'm sure there are other forums for that.

 

[R.I.P.2]

You're obviously a thick-headed specimen. About the second paragraph, I just explained. God created man without a sin nature, man gave the sin nature to himself because he had the chance to choose.

In answer to "why would God want someone to follow him through their own free will?"...If you could would you force your girlfriend or wife without fail to love you? I would think that knowing you are making her do it would take away any sort of real appreciation, any sort of real love. You would not have a friendship or affection with her, you would simply have a little robot that does what you want and mouths emotionless words. I'd like to suggest that this is precisely the same.

EDIT: removed insults because this should be a discussion not a flame-war and I have no beefs with anyone....
What is the plural of "beef" anyway?

Why relate God's thoughts to a human's point of view? Since when did my opinion have anything to do with God's thinking patterns? "I'd like to suggest that this is precisely the same" - is this in the bible, or is this your theory? To me, the whole idea seems slightly ridiculous. Then again, Christianity itself seems ridiculous to me.

 

[R.I.P.2]

The christian is just about the only person not to preach their beliefs, funny...

Yes, that was funny.

 

[Bleakest Harvest]

You're obviously a thick-headed specimen. About the second paragraph, I just explained. God created man without a sin nature, man gave the sin nature to himself because he had the chance to choose.

In answer to "why would God want someone to follow him through their own free will?"...If you could would you force your girlfriend or wife without fail to love you? I would think that knowing you are making her do it would take away any sort of real appreciation, any sort of real love. You would not have a friendship or affection with her, you would simply have a little robot that does what you want and mouths emotionless words. I'd like to suggest that this is precisely the same.

EDIT: removed insults because this should be a discussion not a flame-war and I have no beefs with anyone....
What is the plural of "beef" anyway?

Let me just ask you one thing. According to the bible, God is supposedly omnipotent right? Then how come he seemed to be completely unaware of what was to become of the human race? If he truly was omnipotent, then that means he must have known all along what was going to happen, and thus it makes God the ultimate sadist!

Are there any creationists in here? If so...

 

[AndICried]

the thing i find funny....and i'm not personally attacking you with this, it was just representative of what i am pointing out here.... is that people come down on christianity for stuffing their beleifs down others throats.
Yet, at every opportunity, these people tell christians how pathetically stupid they are and do their best to point out the hypocritical and questionable points contained in the bible and their system of beliefs in an effort to open their eyes to the stupidity of christianity.

Argueing that metal is only for non christians is as stupid as arguing that metal is only for white people. Unless you say that all metal inherantly, actively and overtly opposes all things christian (ie is satanic) and then...yeah, your arguement against christianity then becomes a little less convincing once you profess to 'worship the dark lord himself lUCIFER the son of the morning!!!!!!!!!!!!'... hehe

Let people beleive what they want, is it effecting you if a christian listens to opeth? no. In this case i don't see the point of you all argueing if not to shove your beliefs down someone elses throat. THAT is what i find repulsive, that is what i find dispicable.

The christian is just about the only person not to preach their beliefs, funny...

I usually avoid these threads because they really lead no where so i wont go any further, just wanted to make a point...i may have failed miserably.

Once again, no attacking anyone personally, but leave the christian alone eh? he was just asking if their was any other christains into opeth, not planning a way baptise the entire patronage of the ultimatemetal forum or asking for a heated religious debate, i'm sure there are other forums for that.

Ok, I'll respond to your post from beginning to end...

First point, I never actually made any complaint about missionaries, although if we were to explore the way in which they treated aboriginals and many other races, I think we would find that justifiable...
As for other Christians who try to preach, at the moment I have no objection to it, provided it is not in the vein of a missionary.
Secondly, so much metal (particularly black metal) music is so clearly against principles of Christianity. Therefore arguing that metal has themes which God is against is not as stupid as "arguing that metal is only for white people."
Thirdly, you say let people believe what they want. You have not taken into account that some people (from all types of faith) believe that it is their duty to lead people down the right path (their path). It's not effecting me that Christians are listening to Opeth, but it is effecting me that there are Christians who (obviously in my opinion) are wasting their lives, putting themselves into boundaries. I'm sure some Christians also feel the same way about non-Christians, even moreso perhaps as according to the majority of Christians, non-Christians are going to be in the most painful pain for eternity after this life...
My fourth (sp?) point: You say "The christian is just about the only person not to preach their beliefs, funny..." as if it is a fact (and also in quite a spiteful manner, which Jesus would certainly not talk in). This is only your opinion of what a Christian is. Generally, if you live in southern states of America, you'll have had Christianity preached to you for your whole life, and have very little idea about alternatives to it. Christianity is the most popular religion, and has therefore been preached the most through history. Just 3 months ago I had some relatives come to stay who were modern day missionaries...
I completely disagree with your final point. The meaning of life is one of the most, if not the most important question humans have ever faced. I think that if a philosophical debate opens up, not only is it allowing for people to understand each other's views more, it is also allowing for people to make more educated evaluations of their faiths.

I will not say that anyone is right or wrong (imo there's no such universal law as to right or wrong) but I think that this kind of debate is far more stimulating than the billionth "WHAT'S UR FAV OPETH ALBUMM?1" thread.

 

[R.I.P.2]

Because he wanted to give them free will and let them decide for themselves what to do - that's what the other guy said!

And yes, my post was a joke anyway.

[Edit: you seemed to have deleted your post. To avoid confusion I will delete my previous post. ]

 

[Post_Scriptum]

so music is art huh?
would you like a painting even if it was done by a satanist? i would!

 

[Bleakest Harvest]

would you like a painting even if it was done by a satanist? i would!

I'd probably like it more that way actually

 

[Beth]

i think its incredibly hipocritical for a christian to listen to music like opeth

NO.

doh, I promised myself I wouldn't visit this thread again....*smacking my hand*

 

[Katatonic]

i came back too

romans 14:22 says "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourselves and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin".

paul was writing to christians who asked about food sarcificed to other gods. paul (through most of his letters) says that as long as taking part in some secular activities is not a stumbling block to your or other christian's faith, then there isnt a problem with it. if one of my christian friends came up and told me that they thought that me listening to emperor was bad for THEM (i know i have no problems), then i would stop.

 

[R.I.P.2]

I just don't like black metal in general. What I've heard from Emperor has had really dire production with laughable vocals and barely audible guitars.
I can listen to Dissection as they seem to have decent production and some good fat riffs, but Emperor, COF, Darkthrone etc all seem to have really thin guitars and terrible screechy singing (and shitty keyboards)

Still, it's just my opinion! I've tried listening to black metal but just cant get it

Let's ignore COF .

You have clearly heard early Emperor, as their later stuff has very clear production and thick guitars. Try the songs 'In the Wordless Chamber', 'Thorns on my Grave' and 'Depraved' from their final album Prometheus, bearing in mind that this is not strictly black metal. Personally I enjoy all Emperor that I have heard.

Darkthrone don't use keyboards but their 'garage' production does put a lot of people off. I initially didn't like black metal, especially Darkthrone, but it grew on me.

 

[Bleakest Harvest]

I love black metal, but Darkthrone are indeed a pile of shite.

 

[AndICried]

We are who we are through environmental and inherited factors. Listening to Emperor WILL influence who you are (even if it is as slight as making you dislike or like Emperor)

 

[Beth]

i came back too

romans 14:22 says "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourselves and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin".

paul was writing to christians who asked about food sarcificed to other gods. paul (through most of his letters) says that as long as taking part in some secular activities is not a stumbling block to your or other christian's faith, then there isnt a problem with it. if one of my christian friends came up and told me that they thought that me listening to emperor was bad for THEM (i know i have no problems), then i would stop.

:Spin:

okay, I'm done...Katatonic, we're DONE!