Any one here religious?

[colonel kurtz]

It really just seems to me he's TRYING to debunk and finding references to suit his argument. The same thing that Zeitgeist itself is doing. Everyone can and does do that.

yea, kinda like historians and scholars who keep digging up ancient history in hopes of trying to discredit the bible, and keep finding facts to support many of its claims. not so much being-swallowed-by-a-whale-and-surviving sort of shit, but wars that were fought, who won them, who was king, what tribe was destroyed by whom, etc. etc.

the bible, to me, is a history book of the ancient middle east, told thru the eyes of the jews - simply because they always came out on top. if some other tribe/clan/whatever had decimated them thousands of years ago, we would be revering their god and reading their "religious" texts.

 

[JeffTD]

K dude. I'll dig deeper I promise. But at the moment im not seeing it. He just "dubunks" all the resources that zeitgeist used, some of the time saying that he couldn't get ahold of the book cited. Where most of his could be debunked just the same, and probably are somewhere. I'm sure once delving deeper into the back and forth i'll be reading the debunking of the debunking of the debunking.

It really just seems to me he's TRYING to debunk and finding references to suit his argument. The same thing that Zeitgeist itself is doing. Everyone can and does do that.

Naw check out part one - he goes through and cites why the claims about the gods presented are false and not related to the Jesus myth.

My problem with Zeitgeist is that it's factually inaccurate, glosses over really important details (like the word 'not'), and skews timelines to support it's theories. What it's presenting is interesting and all, but it's not factually accurate. and can't be taken seriously.

Especially the 9/11 part... I don't even want to get into that. We recreated the scenario in my physics class last year, and my uncle watched the damn plane go into the Pentagon.

 

[James Murphy]

created sick, commanded to be well... given life only to run the risk of hell.

i'll just opt out, thx.

Aaron, K'Odell, etc.... you may think the bible is some super-cohesive, infallible, historically accurate text with little or no contradictions... but if your pastor went to seminary, he certainly knows better than that. don't worry though, he'll never burden you with that knowledge. ignorance is indeed bliss, apparently.

if you however care to learn on your own, i shall direct you to the work of Biblical scholar, Dr. Bart D. Ehrman... particularly "Jesus, Interrupted".


and no, i don't expect you to read this and actually change your mind about anything, or give it any credence at all.... i mean, who would just read a book and believe anything it said, right?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qADxEspNE-Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qADxEspNE-Q[/ame]

"The existence of a world without God seems to me less absurd than the presence of a God, existing in all his perfection, creating an imperfect man in order to make him run the risk of Hell." ~ Armand Salacrou, "Certitudes et incertitudes," 1943

 

[JeffTD]

In Kyle's defense, the only thing he truly worships is the cock.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Again... James, do you feel better on yourself trying to "disillusion" the religious??? This goes exactly to what I said earlier, you claim to be something but not deny anothers, and yet here you stand on the last 14 pages, trying for very nest to belittle those who believe different to you. Not only that, you are using snide and sarcastic remarks in your points, showing nothing but pure emotional bias, most people in your position do. I've read many books regarding those which you speak, and yet, of those written by scientists, christians, religious scientists and also notable atheists, the latter tend to use sarcasm and belittling comments assuming it will add weight to their argument, in fact it just proves further that they act in theanner they argue against.

Your attitude is pure turd mate, feel free to disagree and what not, but when you continue to pop smart snide comments, against those who've used non of the sort, you're only helping to alienate yourself further!

But kudos for trying, brb popcorn

 

[K Odell]

In Kyle's defense, the only thing he truly worships is the cock.

Finally someone hit the nail on the head!


In all seriousness though. I was a christian, but I don't consider myself that anymore and never stated that I was in this thread. The bible was obviously written by man and revised over years and years, so obviously its gonna be flawed a bit. I don't claim it to be completely factual. All I will ever state in my religious beliefs is that I have mine and I care not to share them bc well what does it matter what I believe.

 

[James Murphy]

James you brought his intelligence into question through what he wrote.

the fuck i did.

though i'll admit that reading what he's posted since i last replied to him, has me wondering, .

here's my stance, ftr... and it doesn't require me questioning anyone else's intelligence, only their level of study on the subject, and their application of whatever critical thinking capacity they may have:

religion is patently untrue, and leads to bad things... even religious moderates are enablers of the shit that's happening in the world today from the extremes, vis-a-vis this same type of principle that it's taboo to criticize religion that some of you obviously, by your statements, stand by here.

i don't care if you are religious.. i don't want to change you... but just don't you dare tell me that your beliefs, such as and to the extent that they lead to actions that effect others in any way, stand above reproach, criticism, or inquiry of any sort.

 

[lolzgreg]

James, what happened in your life that you hate the thought of God so much?

 

[James Murphy]

Again... James, do you feel better on yourself trying to "disillusion" the religious??? This goes exactly to what I said earlier, you claim to be something but not deny anothers, and yet here you stand on the last 14 pages, trying for very nest to belittle those who believe different to you. Not only that, you are using snide and sarcastic remarks in your points, showing nothing but pure emotional bias, most people in your position do. I've read many books regarding those which you speak, and yet, of those written by scientists, christians, religious scientists and also notable atheists, the latter tend to use sarcasm and belittling comments assuming it will add weight to their argument, in fact it just proves further that they act in theanner they argue against.

Your attitude is pure turd mate, feel free to disagree and what not, but when you continue to pop smart snide comments, against those who've used non of the sort, you're only helping to alienate yourself further!

But kudos for trying, brb popcorn

i'll simply refer you to my immediately preceding post.

and yeah, regarding your criticisms of me, especially that last bit, i can only say this; Irony, they name is Melb-shredder.

 

[sandra-]

That fact is why it's the best choice. It doesn't pretend that we have the answers, it leaves science the space to get specifics while providing a general spiritual, moral overview.

Yep.
Skeptic Carl Sagan asked the Dalai Lama what would he do if a fundamental tenet of his religion (reincarnation) was definitively disproved by science. The Dalai Lama answered; "if science can disprove reincarnation, Tibetan Buddhism would abandon reincarnation..."

Anyways. God will send you all to hell for your blasphemous posts.

 

[K Odell]

James, what happened in your life that you hate the thought of God so much?

What happened in his life that he hates armadillos and god so much?


I don't get it. James, I love your playing, I love a lot of your studio work, but man you have thrown me for a loop in this thread.

 

[JeffTD]

the fuck i did.

James, we already talked about your intentions vs what people perceive them to be, and I seriously don't know if you realize it, but...

Aaron, K'Odell, etc.... you may think the bible is some super-cohesive, infallible, historically accurate text with little or no contradictions... but if your pastor went to seminary, he certainly knows better than that. don't worry though, he'll never burden you with that knowledge. ignorance is indeed bliss, apparently.


and no, i don't expect you to read this and actually change your mind about anything, or give it any credence at all.... i mean, who would just read a book and believe anything it said, right?

That kind of stuff gives people the impression you think they're stupid, or dumber than you. Call it 'less studied,' call it them interpreting your text other than how you meant it - but obviously, more than one person was put off by it, and I have to side with them on this one.

and yeah, regarding your criticisms of me, especially that last bit, i can only say this; Irony, they name is Melb-shredder.

The true irony of this one is really lost on you, then, but I've already 'called you out' on your attitude and style being shite for your goal.

 

[James Murphy]

James, what happened in your life that you hate the thought of God so much?

selective reader much?


i'm agnostic... i don't hate the idea of god, and i've said words to that effect over and over in this thread. but i do hate the idea that he wrote any book for us, and the idea that being critical of organized religion should be taboo.

and i've been pretty damned clear on all of the above, throughout this thread.

 

[lolzgreg]

On that note, I'm a Christian, and I'll agree with everything Aaron has said. There are way too many people out there doing the wrong thing that give Christ, or anything associated with Him, a bad name.

Take a step back and ask yourself, "How many people on earth give humans a bad name?

 

[lolzgreg]

i don't hate the idea of god, and i've said words to that effect over and over in this thread. but i do hate the idea that he wrote any book for us, and the idea that being critical of organized religion should be taboo.

and i've been pretty damned clear on all of the above, throughout this thread.

It's pretty hard to communicate with a world chock full of people who don't believe you exist There's a lot of great stuff in there that you're missing out on.

Well, when did it all start? I'm not sure if you mentioned what religion you were brought up, or when your agnostic views emerged, it would help us understand your views.

 

[lolzgreg]

i don't hate the idea of god, and i've said words to that effect over and over in this thread. but i do hate the idea that he wrote any book for us, and the idea that being critical of organized religion should be taboo.

and i've been pretty damned clear on all of the above, throughout this thread.

It's pretty hard to communicate with a world chock full of people who don't believe you exist There's a lot of great stuff in there that you're missing out on.

Well, when did it all start? I'm not sure if you mentioned what religion you were brought up, or when your agnostic views emerged, it would help us understand your views.

 

[James Murphy]

Finally someone hit the nail on the head!


In all seriousness though. I was a christian, but I don't consider myself that anymore and never stated that I was in this thread. The bible was obviously written by man and revised over years and years, so obviously its gonna be flawed a bit. I don't claim it to be completely factual. All I will ever state in my religious beliefs is that I have mine and I care not to share them bc well what does it matter what I believe.

reading this it sounds like we actually agree on more points than we differ.

 

[James Murphy]

James, we already talked about your intentions vs what people perceive them to be, and I seriously don't know if you realize it, but...




That kind of stuff gives people the impression you think they're stupid, or dumber than you. Call it 'less studied,' call it them interpreting your text other than how you meant it - but obviously, more than one person was put off by it, and I have to side with them on this one.



The true irony of this one is really lost on you, then, but I've already 'called you out' on your attitude and style being shite for your goal.

well.... that's cuz you didn't read the book

the "ignorance is bliss" was referring to how parsons keep their knowledge, learned in seminary, of the inconsistencies of the bible from their congregations, and NOT a slur to anyone on the forum.

 

[James Murphy]

What happened in his life that he hates armadillos and god so much?


I don't get it. James, I love your playing, I love a lot of your studio work, but man you have thrown me for a loop in this thread.

don't hate god, don't hate armadillos. you've either not really read my posts, or you've not understood them.

not trying to throw anyone for a loop... just showing my true opinions and feelings... you see, i don't have a publicist to stop me,

 

[Melb_shredder]

^^

nothing ironic about what I said or do, and I think I merely reiterated what others have already said. Suffice to say, I'm glad you attempted to clear some of it up.

Cheers, and trust me I took no offense from any of your posts, I was just pointing out how your choice of words could easily be percieved as condecending and biased