Any one here religious?

[James Murphy]

^^

nothing ironic about what I said or do, and I think I merely reiterated what others have already said. Suffice to say, I'm glad you attempted to clear some of it up.

Cheers, and trust me I took no offense from any of your posts, I was just pointing out how your choice of words could easily be percieved as condecending and biased

no, trust me... it's quite ironic.. you criticized me for criticizing you... and you made some fairly barbed comments while doing so... that there's irony chief,

ftr, i've always liked Aaron's contributions and i hope he doesn't get too personally offended. i'm just engaging in the debate, and i'm very "anti" the concept that criticism of religion should be taboo in any way. ... and my style is kinda blunt in print.

 

[K Odell]

don't hate god, don't hate armadillos. you've either not really read my posts, or you've not understood them.

not trying to throw anyone for a loop... just showing my true opinions and feelings... you see, i don't have a publicist to stop me,

Well I said those statements purely as a joke so .......yeah....


Now what do we have in common? You too believe I worship cock? If so then yeah of course I mean lets see, fiance' as a cover up, writes cheesy metal, has a super gay love for pinch harmonics.......yeah my life wreaks of dudes making out.

 

[James Murphy]

Well I said those statements purely as a joke so .......yeah....


Now what do we have in common? You too believe I worship cock? If so then yeah of course I mean lets see, fiance' as a cover up, writes cheesy metal, has a super gay love for pinch harmonics.......yeah my life wreaks of dudes making out.

the part about not being christian and the bits about the bible being written by men, and being revised, flawed, etc.

 

[K Odell]

Oh ok, sorry I am trying to dodge any seriousness in this conversation right now bc well yeah I am spent.

 

[amarshism]

God is dead. All hail god.



I hope the bible was written by a bunch of muso junkies to fuck with humanity. If you choose to accept your chosen religion and have faith in it because of 'Biblical evidence', than surely you must also accept all other such thoroughly documented religions as fact. Who are you to choose which are right and wrong, because if one is to exist, then based on the documentation, artifacts and institutions, then all should exist. If you think one doesn't, then all mustn't. You don't get to choose when all evidence points to many gods. Therefore if you accept that there is a god, then you must also accept that there are many gods, all responsible for creating earth, and the heavens and hell, which contradicts the inherent exclusivity prevalent throughout monotheism.

How many Christian people posting in here deny evolution? How many think dinosaurs didn't exist. How many think the earth is only a few thousand years old? If you answered yes to any of these questions then you must realise your religion is flawed and your faith misdirected. Empirical data has proven these things in totally unrelated repeatable cases. You can't argue intelligently for religion. It just isn't possible.

As unethical as it is, we need a lord of the flies experiment carried out.

 

[K Odell]

God is dead. All hail god.



I hope the bible was written by a bunch of muso junkies to fuck with humanity. If you choose to accept your chosen religion and have faith in it because of 'Biblical evidence', than surely you must also accept all other such thoroughly documented religions as fact. Who are you to choose which are right and wrong, because if one is to exist, then based on the documentation, artifacts and institutions, then all should exist. If you think one doesn't, then all mustn't. You don't get to choose when all evidence points to many gods. Therefore if you accept that there is a god, then you must also accept that there are many gods, all responsible for creating earth, and the heavens and hell, which contradicts the inherent exclusivity prevalent throughout monotheism.

How many Christian people posting in here deny evolution? How many think dinosaurs didn't exist. How many think the earth is only a few thousand years old? If you answered yes to any of these questions then you must realise your religion is flawed and your faith misdirected. Empirical data has proven these things in totally unrelated repeatable cases. You can't argue intelligently for religion. It just isn't possible.

As unethical as it is, we need a lord of the flies experiment carried out.

Hahahaha Jesus.

 

[James Murphy]

Hahahaha Jesus.

yeah, i think that's what he was sayin'

 

[amarshism]

 

[GeertSamuel]

I'm not a fan of religion either. We agree on something! Christianity is often referred to as a religion for the sake of categorization, but it is fundamentally different than all other religions.

+1

 

[drew_drummer]

Furthermore, you're leaving Jesus out of it entirely, who is a historical figure written about not only by Christian authors, but whose existence is also corroborated by secular authors from the same time period.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[drew_drummer]

+1

I would really love to know how Christianity is fundamentally different from all other religions.

 

[GarethSE]

Can we get Murph a leash or something?

 

[James Murphy]

Can we get Murph a leash or something?

okey dokey, smokey dopey

 

[SocialNumb]

SocialNumb, you've brought up a lot of good points so I feel like the most appropriate response for me is to address them individually, hopefully without eating up a ton of my time. I have a record to finish



I'm not a fan of religion either. We agree on something! Christianity is often referred to as a religion for the sake of categorization, but it is fundamentally different than all other religions.

My pastor makes some great comments in this video, contrasting Christianity against religion:

The Catholic church as an institution has definitely deviated from scripture. The whole idea of a papacy and church leaders being holier than the average person, the fact you can't talk to God directly to confess your sins and instead must go to a confessional booth so that someone else can talk to God for you, and many other things ...this is all entirely un-biblical, and any time someone deviates from scripture, it's a bad direction to be going in.



Subdivisions within the Christian faith are not irreconcilable differences, so much as they are just different areas of Christian faith that for one reason or another the founder of that subdivision found to be particularly meaningful and wanted to keep in focus. This is drastically different than there being 30,000 fundamentally different versions of Christianity (assuming your number is accurate). Adherence to scripture is the key...so if one of what you call "subdivisions of Christianity" has some extra doctrines they've added, or have taken out parts of the Bible and decided them to be irrelevant, then they are no longer Christian. Make sense?

As far as the "movement with clear goals to convert us all into what I label as slaves"... To be honest dude, I've been a Christian for most of my whole life, and I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know a single Christian who is all about trying to take over government so we can live in a big Christian theocracy. The Bible says nothing of the sort, that Christians should rule entire countries. Rather, a Christian is supposed to be in relationship with God, so as to be open to God's will for their life. If there are Christians out there who are seriously convinced that God can be best glorified by Christians taking over the government, then they obviously aren't reading their Bibles, and they have certainly lost touch with some aspect of their faith.



This presents a huge conversation in itself which will be huge and fruitless on this forum, so I don't want to get into it in great detail. But, I have been saying all along, that the scientific and physical truths about the realities of our universe were authored by God, so there is no reason that science has to be at odds with God. It's not like physics and science already existed, and then God created the universe within the confines of some preexisting rules that which he had no control over... God created the framework for physical existence, and then he created physical existence.

My reason in saying all this, is that a Christian who just flatly denies scientific evidence as being in any way relevant, is being ignorant. To be honest, I have absolutely no idea how the universe was created... The "Christian" idea that everything was created only 5,000 years ago is not necessarily correct and is certainly not the only thing a Christian can believe. I think it's entirely possible that God could have used the mechanism of evolution as a means of creating life. I've read extensively on many ideas (young earth, old earth, etc), and the only conclusion I can come to is that I don't know what the answer is, but I know that whatever it is, God is responsible for it. By the way, the whole "young earth" idea is a very new idea, and there were many prominent Christians throughout history who warned against taking certain parts of scripture too literally, so as to make Christians appear foolish against scientific study....so in case you were gonna go this way, I am not some weirdo lone-star Christian struggling to hang on to the final threads of my faith in order that I might reconcile it with almighty science... In Christianity there are open-handed and closed-handed issues, and the exact mechanism God used for the Creation on the earth is one of the open-handed issues that does not make or break your salvation. If this whole idea intrigues you, there is more information and a lot of great commentaries and essays here: http://biologos.org/




You are talking about an absolutely tiny, minute handful of people who make up about 0.0000000001% of all who profess to be Christians. And it should be plainly, painfully obvious to you, that a "Christian" who kills gay people is obviously not obeying the Bible and is certainly not paying any attention whatsoever to the sin in his own life.



Funny you mention this, as I just read this article the other day:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100308/wl_afp/nigeriaunrest

I haven't heard about Christians killing witches, but again, it should go without saying...if a "Christian" decides that it is up to him to go commit murder, he is so far removed from what Christianity is supposed to be that it's nearly irrelevant to the conversation. The bottom line is that if a person is in relationship with God, and is being influenced by the Spirit and not by their own ideas, these kinds of things will not happen. You can't pin it on Christianity.

I was subscribed to that ass hat for about 3 months. Can't remember if he blocked me or if I just unsubscribed. IMO dude just makes shit up as he goes along. Never got a response for any of my questions. He sure did delete them though. As far as youtube goes, Christians love censoring.

On the catholics I agree but would argue that every believer picks and chooses what to follow as they see fit.

On subdivisions, It is said that 90% of christians have never read the whole bible. They just believe. That would mean only 10 percent of christians are real christians and then we have the problem of interpretation and translation. This is further complicated by the fact that the original texts aren't around anymore and we can only have faith that they where copied some what accurately. What Bible would you call the "true" Bible? I have news for you, another believer would say otherwise.


Creationist:
We can just stay out of this one. They are awful.

Gays are being denied their civil rights in the states. In other countries, whatever their religion is, they kill them.

"Christians" are definitely killing "witches" in africa. Youtube it, google it. Be warned, it's hard to watch children on fire. I was shocked! It's the law in some parts.

Finally where I stand with Jesus. I don't believe he ever existed or I should say, he probably never existed. What little "evidence" there is for him outside the Bible amounts to hearsay.

Then we have:

Who was the Son of the highest God, and the biggest healer in Antiquity? He healed the sick and even raised the dead. Hear and behold: former paralysed walked again, the blind could miraculously see again, and the deaf could listen and the mute speak after the Master's gentle touch! But he did not only heal the body, he also healed the soul. They called him Saviour and Redeemer, and he healed both rich and poor, men and women, young and old, slaves and free men, friends and enemies. In one occasion a paralysed man was brough to him in his bed, and took his bed and left walking after the Saviour had touched him. What was this Saviour's name? Asklepios

Who was born by a mortal virgin mother and had a divine Father, and was known as the "Saviour of the world"? Before he was born his parents wandered to a bigger town, and prophets had foretold his birth and that he would be a king. This instigated a search for the infant Saviour by a leading figure who wanted to kill him. After growing up the Son of God was shown all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. He also walked on water and when he met his end his mother and his favorite disciple stood by him. He then tells his mother: "Do not cry, I'm going to heaven". When he dies he utter: "It is finished" and the earth trembles and darkness cover the land. Then he ascended to heaven, and his greatest achievement was to conquer death.

His name was of course...Hercules.

We all of course know the Redeemer who was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was the true Saviour who wanted to help and save the sinful humans, by sacrificing himself. But he was willing to do this, out of love, pity and compassion for the humans.

His name:...Prometheus.

Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this God often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god's finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.

The God was the very popular Dionysos.

Who is the "Light of the World", the One, the God who defeated death? Born of a virgin mother, considered the first true King by the people. Who rose from the grave and ascended to heaven. He defeated death, and must be considered the single true God.

Of course the Egyptian Osiris!

Now, the real God often called the "Light of the world", "The good shepherd", "The lamb" and is "…the way, the truth, and the life". Identified with a cross. Who could that be?

Horus, (the son of Osiris).

The original "Light of the world" was the mediator between God and man and was born on the 25.th of December. Local shepherds witnessed his birth and gave him gifts. He had 12 disciples, and when his work was done on earth he gathered together to a last supper, and then ascended to heaven. At doomsday he will return to pass judgment on both the living and the dead. The righteous will go to heaven and the sinful will be killed in a giant fire. Sunday is his holyday, and this religion gave us the seven days of the week. His followers called each other "brothers" and their leaders "fathers". They practiced babtism and established a sacred meal ritual, where flesh and blood was symbolically consumed by initiates. Above earth was heaven, and below the dark hell with demons and the sinners.

The 'Light of the World' is of course the sungod Mithra.

Wise men were led to his birth by a star, and his conception was miraculous. After his birth the ruler in the area wanted him dead and started a hunt for the child. But his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who told them to escape over the river with the holy child. Here, he was met by shepherds. The boy grew up and did many great deeds, and was the mediator between God and man.

His name: Krishna.

Who then, was the God whose mother was told by an angel that she would give birth to a holy child destined to be a Saviour? Even as a child he instructed the priests in the temple in religous matters, while his parents were looking for him. He started his religious career when he was ca 30 years of age, and surrounded himself with 12 disciples. One of the disciples is his favorite another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around talking in parables and metaphors. This God called himself "Son of Man" and was referred to as "Prophet", "Master" and "Lord". He did many great wonders and healed the sick, blind could see again and deaf hear.
He also walked on water. When one of his disciples tried to do the same, he started to sink - his faith was not strong enough.

We are here obviously talking about Buddha.

Our Saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, and even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" His message is of love and compassion.

We give you: Apollonius of Tyana*

And there is of course the God-man, the prophet, the founder of a great monotheistic religion that still exist today. He preached that there was only one true God, and his teachings focused on the eternal fight between good and evil. The teachings include the idea of the Saviour will wake the dead and pass judgment on all. The righteous ones goes to Paradise and the sinful straight to a burning Hell. The very word of Paradise stems from this religion. This semigod started his career in his early thirties, and had a following of disciples. As a band of monks they wandered around, preaching their religion. He was eventually killed and sent to heaven.

And he was the Persian Zarathustra.

The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. You don't have to be very bright to see where the authors of the Gospels got their "devine inspiration" when they created the Jewish version of the popular God-Man/ World-Saviour of Antiquity.

So yeah . . .

 

[El_Gato]

GENESIS

# First day: God creates light ("Let there be light!")[Gen 1:3]—the first divine command. The light is divided from the darkness, and "day" and "night" are named.
# Second day: God creates a firmament ("Let a firmament be...!")[Gen 1:6–7]—the second command—to divide the waters above from the waters below. The firmament is named "skies".
# Third day: God commands the waters below to be gathered together in one place, and dry land to appear (the third command).[Gen 1:9–10] "Earth" and "sea" are named. God commands the earth to bring forth grass, plants, and fruit-bearing trees (the fourth command).


Do we need to continue with the myths?

So, the universe, stars and firmament was created the same week as the earth and humans. Yeah riiight


It's ok if you want to believe in myths just like if you want to. BUT YOU (the religious people) ARE the ones who are represing, killing, indoctrinating, preaching and converting the world to your interests so now don't come whining that you feel attacked just because we need a better moral values for our children. So yours have to turn non-invasive and stop trying everybody think like you.

Anyway, there are so many interpretations of the bible (not to talk about different gods) that sure yours is the almighty one. How can anybody deny that

 

[Melb_shredder]

This really grinds my gears... Just generalizing, by saying "you" religious people, would you then believe that people such as myself, Aaron and the others would burn a witch, kill people etc???

I'm just curious, because I don't feel it's fair to group people like that... I may as well help you along.. All Asians are good at math, black people love watermelon and Italians only eat pizza right...

I actually agree with a lot of wrong existing in oranized religion. I myself don't go to church for such reasons, but I do personally pray to "god" in my own time each and every night. I also do physics, chemistry and other subjects in my schooling and feel at no odds between my faith and my learnings.

So I will say I am
spiritual if that tag suits better, and now I ask... At what are you arguing??? Is it the extremist views and actions from religious groups and how you believe they opress society??? Or religion/ faith/ spiritual beliefs in general??

Because I personaly can't see my actions being negative to anyone ever

 

[John_C]

Can I be a Christian without believing in anything supernatural?

By that I mean follow the moral teachings of Jesus (which I often find myself referring to in moral arguments) without feeling the need to have any God knowing or caring about what I do.

Would that make me a good person? or would I still be heading straight for hell if it turned out that I'd been wrong all along and there actually was a Christian God?

 

[James Murphy]

Can I be a Christian without believing in anything supernatural?

By that I mean follow the moral teachings of Jesus (which I often find myself referring to in moral arguments) without feeling the need to have any big brother watching my actions, judging me etc...

Would that make me a good person? or would I still be heading straight for hell if it turned out that I'd been wrong all along and there actually was a Christian God?

you could follow the Jefferson Bible....

Thomas Jefferson disliked the supernatural parts of the bible... so he wrote his own, by just taking out all the supernatual bits of the scripture and gospels; miracles and divinity and such. you can buy a copy on Amazon, just search "jefferson Bible"

 

[Melb_shredder]

^^
haha, tis true!!!

 

[amarshism]

Don't sweat it. There isn't.