Any one here religious?

[Notuern]

I just have a quick question... When sid this thread go from questions etc, to fuck Christians and christianity?? Really... If you feel so strongly, then you shouldn't even talk to a nice guy like Aaron... I mean his a fucking Christian right... Stupid morons. Act and say what you want, but he hasn't needed to resort to name calling and stupidity, atleast he's standing for what he believes and oh wait... Not trying to be a cunt either.. And to think I come here to a big acceping cool group of people to chat with and learn some shit!! I think I just learned atheists can be as retarded as Christians, congrats

Aaron is a kewl guy, but honestly, interpreting the word "rape" to "premarital sex" is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[SocialNumb]

You should all have your nuts chopped off for this alone:

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Reverse peristalsis is in effect.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Stinnet, though you and I differ greatly on a lot, I think one very important thing must be said since I've read more of you in this thread....

You make some fucking awesome guitars dude!!!!

\m/

And as a side note... I really like this forum, I hope this thread hasn't caused any loss off friends or whatever cause THAT would be the real loss!! While we differ in belief etc, let's all remember we are all people, some awesome people, on an awesome forum of metal production goodness!!! No need to preach and attack eachother, we are all friends and collegues to some degree on here

 

[drew_drummer]

The short answer is some people just always have a need to be pissed off at something

How could that video that SocialNumb posted NOT piss you off?

 

[Metaltastic]

I didn't watch it cuz I saw no point; people are scum, and religion is only one of the many things they can use to justify unthinkable atrocities (let's not forget ethnic cleansing), but IMO it's the symptom, not the problem

 

[drew_drummer]

People on the whole are good natured and kind. But when they're put in groups and told that they're all separate and not to care for another group, then they turn into assholes.

 

[STINNETT]

Stinnet, though you and I differ greatly on a lot, I think one very important thing must be said since I've read more of you in this thread....

You make some fucking awesome guitars dude!!!!

m/

And as a side note... I really like this forum, I hope this thread hasn't caused any loss off friends or whatever cause THAT would be the real loss!! While we differ in belief etc, let's all remember we are all people, some awesome people, on an awesome forum of metal production goodness!!! No need to preach and attack eachother, we are all friends and collegues to some degree on here

Just because I may argue religion with people, it doesn't generally change my perception of them as people. I hope I get the same in return. I don't take the position that people are stupid for being religious, I used to be very religious and most everyone I know and love is religious. I think debate is healthy, and I certainly appreciate it when someone can force me to think or consider new information.

I feel sorry for anyone who is offended by a debate.

I argue my position because of the big issues that impact all of us, not because I have a problem with individuals holding religious views. When you get down to it, most people here, even the religious ones, aren't really at odds with me about that. (creationism in science classes, the push for a theocratic state, etc.)

 

[TravisW]

To Aaron's defense here, concerning the Deuteronomy passage:

The New International Version is the only translation that I am aware of that uses the word "Rape", which apparently seems so obvious to so many of you. The Hebrew words used basically equate to "gets ahold of" and "lies with". The translators for the NIV apparently decided that the two together signify rape. The translators of the other main English translations apparently disagree.

So, Aaron isn't exactly shooting in the dark here. An earlier verse alludes to what we would define as rape, and uses different wording.

 

[SocialNumb]

 

[Notuern]

To Aaron's defense here, concerning the Deuteronomy passage:

The New International Version is the only translation that I am aware of that uses the word "Rape", which apparently seems so obvious to so many of you. The Hebrew words used basically equate to "gets ahold of" and "lies with". The translators for the NIV apparently decided that the two together signify rape. The translators of the other main English translations apparently disagree.

So, Aaron isn't exactly shooting in the dark here. An earlier verse alludes to what we would define as rape, and uses different wording.

So what you are saying is that all the other passages regarding similar cases in the Deuteronomy has been translated in to "lies with", except for that passage?

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [c] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

And to clarify further, the words used in hebrew is Taphas and Shakab.
Taphas translates in to "catch, seized, captured, taken hold of, arrested" and is used in context of "to manipulate/to use unwarrantably".
Shakab translates in to "lie down", and is used as a term for sexual relations.

So yeah, go figure.

 

[John_C]

To Aaron's defense here, concerning the Deuteronomy passage:

The New International Version is the only translation that I am aware of that uses the word "Rape", which apparently seems so obvious to so many of you. The Hebrew words used basically equate to "gets ahold of" and "lies with". The translators for the NIV apparently decided that the two together signify rape. The translators of the other main English translations apparently disagree.

So, Aaron isn't exactly shooting in the dark here. An earlier verse alludes to what we would define as rape, and uses different wording.

Which rather falls into the hands of what i said earlier......if someone's interpretation of the bible takes historical context and translation problems into account (which seems inevitable, unless you actually agree with the crazier bits of the old testament word for word :s), how can they still be the words of god that you can trust in.

 

[El_Gato]

I just have a quick question... When sid this thread go from questions etc, to fuck Christians and christianity?? Really... If you feel so strongly, then you shouldn't even talk to a nice guy like Aaron... I mean his a fucking Christian right... Stupid morons. Act and say what you want, but he hasn't needed to resort to name calling and stupidity, atleast he's standing for what he believes and oh wait... Not trying to be a cunt either.. And to think I come here to a big acceping cool group of people to chat with and learn some shit!! I think I just learned atheists can be as retarded as Christians, congrats

IDK who you're talking about but, just in case, as I said in my first post in this thread, I apologize in advance if someone's offended. But, you have to understand that I don't give a shit if someone's spiritual or not. I said before that I have many religious friends. What pisses me off is that religious people financed the DANGEROUS religions they practice.

You also have to understand these are the responses you get (I mean plural) when you post things like facepalms (i gave reasonings), cheer Aaron up (you have your ideas, and there are plenty of things said to be refuted, I guess) and giving responses to what you want and ignoring the others (I named several FACTS and I only get definitions of the word RAPE and FREE WILL) Correct me if wrong.

I want no fight with you or others, but first, look at yourselves. You post unrespectful facepalms without quotes or explanations, that's what you get.


Peace to you

War to religion uke:

 

[El_Gato]

To Aaron's defense here, concerning the Deuteronomy passage:

The New International Version is the only translation that I am aware of that uses the word "Rape", which apparently seems so obvious to so many of you. The Hebrew words used basically equate to "gets ahold of" and "lies with". The translators for the NIV apparently decided that the two together signify rape. The translators of the other main English translations apparently disagree.

So, Aaron isn't exactly shooting in the dark here. An earlier verse alludes to what we would define as rape, and uses different wording.

Even in other languages (eg Spanish) the meaning is RAPE. Cause they also talk about VIRGINITY.

Even in English you have Violation and Rape. Different connotations.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Surely you must be joking, unrespectful facepalms!!! I lol my arsenal if at the Jesus pics etc, but my facepalms were disrespectful??? I really don't have anything to add. There's no responses I get or have to worry about personally, because I havent argued or sat here talking about stuff I mostly don't know about. I stated my position and nothing that has been said has done much to offend me, main gripe is when people can question someone intelligence for merely being religious or whatever. I just don't get how you can pull the respect card when most of the religious people in here have been the most...

Pretty ironic of you ask me...

@Stinnet, dude, totally respect your position for sure man, I don't feel offended by anything you said nor will I sit here and disagree etc. I stand in my position and you have yours the same, so yeah!
Also, the arguments of christianity in science or theocratic state etc. I probably can't relate, like I said in australia it's very different.

 

[James Murphy]

People on the whole are good natured and kind. But when they're put in groups and told that they're all separate and not to care for another group, then they turn into assholes.

well said drew... rather reminds of one of my favorite quotes regarding human nature and religiosity, from Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things... But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Steven Weinberg from The New York Times, April 20, 1999

 

[Uladyne]

Nothing Aaron can say will alter our belief that he is a baddass and worthy of all our respect.

Not trying to single him out or anything, just stating that he's a baddass.

That is all.

 

[Melb_shredder]

I wish I knew how to summon the beer emoticon

 

[James Murphy]

I wish I knew how to summon the beer emoticon

the word kickass, in between two colons

 

[Melb_shredder]

Damn that's awesome! Well this first one is to you kind sir!