Atheism (Do you believe in God? If yes, then why?)
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derek
Grey Eminence
That is a cynical view of agnosticism. I tend to see it as a position where one can submit to the wonder about what we just cannot know.
maybe I can never know the 11 dimentions of string theory with my own two eyes, but that doesn't stop one from wondering.
Agnostic = (Latin) Ignoramus
You can wonder all you want, but that's only what you have at the end of the day.
God, in whatever form, sure does seem like a secretive guy with low self-esteem (with all the asking for prayers and faith). And what a mean parent! I know once when your kids hit their thirties, you want to stop worrying about them and all. But jeez, so the guy didnt get married, and only beggars and fools believed him; no reason to be so harsh and all. And to send ones own heavenly flesh and blood on your imperfect creation in such a dusty dank inconsequential place and time; hm...you think you could have at least waited until your boy had a proper flat screen television, and could watch reruns of Friends. Personally, I think child services should have a talk with the big guy in the sky. Really, he needlessly endangered and abandoned his child. At least the big guy could learn proper parenting skills. And heck, while we're at it, how about teaching him some social skills as well? Its very rude to not answer people and ignore them.
I do however, put my full and total faith in Bacchus. I have plenty of evidence his sweet nectar leads me to communion and gnosis with naughty nymphs and mischievious fauns. Life becomes bearable and fun; but when not worshipping my Thracian God, it becomes boring and brutish, and those naughty nymphs, are still naughty, but no longer nymph-like.
I do however, put my full and total faith in Bacchus. I have plenty of evidence his sweet nectar leads me to communion and gnosis with naughty nymphs and mischievious fauns. Life becomes bearable and fun; but when not worshipping my Thracian God, it becomes boring and brutish, and those naughty nymphs, are still naughty, but no longer nymph-like.
Norsemaiden
barbarian
Great!
Yes God is nothing admirable at all, from what the Bible tells about him. If I believed in it I would say God should burn in Hell for all his sins.
Nietzsche says that if there is a God, then what is there for US to create? And also, that if gods exist, how can one bear not to BE one? (I haven't time right now to look for the exact quotes).
God doesn't deserve to be believed in - he doesn't deserve that amount of consideration.
arguments against God's opinions? lol.
same way I can bear not to be as handsome as Brad Pitt, as rich as Bill Gates, and as smart as Stephen Hawking. same way as brad pitt can bear not being as smart as Stephen Hawking or as rich as Bill Gates...
just because God would have all the shit I want and I'd be bitter and hateful doesn't mean I wouldn't just go on with my bitter hateful life as well as I do in a world of Albert Einsteins and Donald Trumps
I dont agree that
i believe god. In my faith i love god not fro heaven for fear of the hell. Some of my actions are sin but i know god understand me i can pray to god when i want and god dont turn back on to me beacuse of my old sins. I can tell " i wont do this anymore" then i can do it again. In my faith god is forgiver. We cant understand it in that human brain
Silver Incubus
Dead Hands Justin
If the Natural Intelligence of a human is without understanding of this
a) how can you claim to
b) i will edit your quote to show exactly the same thing with different nouns.
Its amazing we can have so much argument about whether there even is a God, and if a God is possible, but forget to shine the light of truth and logic upon the God-myths themselves.
The Judeo/Christian/Islam faith is full of absolutely ridiculous beliefs, and based on a spiteful God with low-self esteem. And, as I stated before, the Jesus story, perhaps highlights this God's hatred, sadism and love of suffering more than any other religion. Perhaps for 1,700 or 1,900 years, this needless but God-willed sadism and suffering provided comfort and guidance to the masses of common people who also sufferred needlessly; but today, apart from those needlessly suffering in Africa and the developing world, let us see this religion and tradition for what it really is. Our suffering is now of our own making, and no longer can be considered the fault of an insecure sadistic creator god, who tortured his own son. No comfort can be given, and fault must rest on our own shoulders.
Would certainly seem one of the better ways to begin relieving ourselves of such suffering...
I still fail to understand of what use or import the 'god' concept is. So there 'may be' extra dimensions / planes of existance / old bearded dudes in fluffy clouds - there seems as much use believing in any of it as there does purple spotted flying hippo's. Whether or not there are unknowable things out there will remain unknowable, I would suggest
Until shown evidence for the existance / import of something, believing it to not exist / have import, seems the only way to lead a functional life, to me. Hence I consider myself atheist. Some way of removing myself from the pool of reactionary types who would call themselves atheist purely in response to various theists would be a nice thing - but getting around calling myself a rational atheist might seem a little obnoxious
Norsemaiden
barbarian
When Nietzsche said
- Zarathustra quote -
he didn't mean it in a trivial narcissistic sense. He was thinking about how man must be overcome, and that there should be a superman in the future, but that this would be in conflict with the notion of gods existing, as the superman should effectively be like a god. One day, the decendents of man may terraform planets, which is rather a godlike activity for example. Believing in gods is like putting yourself in a lesser place, below them. This is the case with the kind of gods that require worship anyway - so the Norse gods don't count imo.
I don't think saying 'god' can't exist because something 'godlike' could exist is at all useful.
Norsemaiden
barbarian
Psychologically those who worship gods humble themselves and don't harbour ambitions along the lines of the creation of the Superman. But if you are not taking into account human psychology and you are just being objective about it, certainly the existence of a god is not disproved by the desire to be as great or greater than the god.
What does "suffer needlessly" mean, exactly? Aditionally, what do you mean by Africans or the so-called developing world, for instance, suffer(ing) needlessly - but then follow this up by saying "our suffering is now of our own making?" Who then is the "our" in question?(Why are the Africans or developing world set-apart from this observation) Sorry if I am being obtuse of have misread this...I just don't follow your point.
yea, that's how I was taking it. Atheism aside, I agree with your point on human ambitions.
It's also amazing that the Judeo/Christian/Islam story is about this wrathful god with such low self esteem, yet people still confuse this wrath and hatred for compassion and understanding.
I think that the people of the so-called "developing world" are set apart, because of the fact that they don't necessarily believe in the same God as us, so they don't have the same thing to blame as us, with our all knowing, all loving God, who shows us infinite love and compassion, while still going and destroying a city for not going to church or something like taht.
I kinda interpreted what speed said as saying that God has become nothing to us, but a target for blame, which we're too scared to accept for ourselves, even though we really are to blame.
ÎÏεβοÏ
Member
You're skewing terms:
An Agnostic is one who is certain that it is impossible to know for certain if God exists or not - hence not uncertain, rather certain about the impossibility of certainty pertaining to God's existence or non-existence. Though, for some reason, to many, it has changed to mean one that is unconvinced or noncommittal in the belief of God's existence. I'd say the latter is the ignorant one - the one lacking enough knowledge to come to a conclusion, and taking the easy route of sitting on the fence.
Atheism - The belief that God or gods do not exist, or the lack of belief in God or gods. The first being "strong" atheism, and the second being "weak" atheism.
Agnosticism - The "belief" that there can be no certainty pertaining to the existence or non-existence of God.
Atheism cannot be replaced by Agnosticism as you are saying. Agnosticism doesn't even pertain to belief or lack of belief in God, in any way.
Stop screwing terms up.
An Agnostic is one who is certain that it is impossible to know for certain if God exists or not - hence not uncertain, rather certain about the impossibility of certainty pertaining to God's existence or non-existence. Though, for some reason, to many, it has changed to mean one that is unconvinced or noncommittal in the belief of God's existence. I'd say the latter is the ignorant one - the one lacking enough knowledge to come to a conclusion, and taking the easy route of sitting on the fence.
Atheism - The belief that God or gods do not exist, or the lack of belief in God or gods. The first being "strong" atheism, and the second being "weak" atheism.
Agnosticism - The "belief" that there can be no certainty pertaining to the existence or non-existence of God
Atheism cannot be replaced by Agnosticism as you are saying. Agnosticism doesn't even pertain to belief or lack of belief in God, in any way.
Stop screwing terms up.
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