Best Metal Band Ever?

Best metal Band

  • Anathema

    Votes: 6 7.1%
  • Anthrax

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Black Sabbath

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • Carcass

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Dark Tranquillity

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • Death

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Iron Maiden

    Votes: 20 23.5%
  • Judas Priest

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Manowar

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Megadeth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Metallica

    Votes: 21 24.7%
  • Mercyful Fate / King Diamond

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Moonspell

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Motorhead

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My Dying Bride

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Paradise Lost

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Testament

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Sepultura

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Slayer

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Kreator

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • Total voters
    85
Originally posted by Misanthrope


Chuck Schuldiner player Almost since Metallica started with kill em all with mantas and had the same 20 years of experience and a thousand times more talent to sell out and become comercial, a musician is a musician until the day he dies, a sellout moneywhore is a sellout moneywhore until the day they die, Metallica did nothing but take advantage of the popularity the clubs and then ozzy gave them to become millionars because back then metal started to grow until it became glam and everyone had their eyes on it, they did just about what motley crue did and started the same, The catch is metallica couldnt take too many radical changes in the 80s because they did not have the reach to do so, they got the reach to do so after the black album and looking back their sellout was inevitable and well planed. It was never about music it was about and ambisious drummer and guitarplayer who got togheter to catch the babes and the cash and the beers and got a wuss guitar player to do nothing but blues solos and disponsable mediocre bass players.

You should know better

ok this is going to be a REALLY LONG thread.. that's what u guys should start.. a MetallicA thread :) I'm not referring to Misanthrope here.. his post was just the excuse for what follows.. :)
First of all.. Metallica "betrayed" their fans or was it the other way around? Metallica never signed a contract or something, saying that they will be "thrashy", or even metal, til they die..
Most METALHEADS that I know, started being such during the Black Album era.. and thanks to the Black Album.. and now everyone just talks about the "pre-black album era".. FUCK YOU! It's the same band.. MetallicA.. there are no old and new MetallicA.. like it or not!
About changes.. every single album took MetallicA a step further.. they kept being better and DIFFERENT! NONE of their albums sounds the same as their previous ones.. I consider Load/Reload the same album..
About selling out again.. the Black Album went 4 times platinum within a few months time.. not a lot of ppl accused them of selling out back then.. they could've been releasing black albums every fuckin year! They would have become billionaires! And the fans would have nothing to complain about.. But they didn't! They kept doing something different.. something that plzed THEM! This is not what I consider selling-out..
It was never about music??? Half the bands you listen to are influenced by Metz.. Hetfield is still my favorite rhythm guitarist.. the guy's was a genius.. and it was the 80s!
Anyway MetallicA are more metal than all of you will ever be.. they had long hair for about 20 years.. they formed one of the best metal bands ever.. if not the best.. they started by selling their own demo tapes to collect money for their first album recording.. etc.. etc..
Sorry about the length.. but these guys really hurt my feelings :)
 
Im glad i hurt your feelings cause you deserve to be hurt if you take bullshit personal.

Lets make some points: Metalheads are all a bunch of idiots. I do not think that anyone here is a metalhead, there could be but everyone here is more open minded. Who cares about Metallica being metalheads? that just makes one more reason to hate them.

Second of all, have you ever even looked at the lyrics in kill em all? seriosly try wiplash THAT IS WHAT metallica was about clubs beer and whores and they admited it in a big number of ocations. Look at the cliff em all videos and see the Metallica fan there is a girl giving a guy a blowjob in the middle of the club, they take kirk's guitar and trash it to hell, this drunken idiots are the metalheads ? this is what metallica started as, rockstar band that enjoyed the cult-like following of a few bunch of idiots and posed with bullet belts and drinked beer for no other reason than to show their fans they are drunken idiots too. How is that music? how is that making an artistic expression? that is making music for the masses and catching the wave of crap it was going on those days being smart enough to change it a bit. That went on until Ozzy came to the rescue and put them in the map then the money was more serious and the fans more and more and the whores kept coming big time ( i mean is Ozzy we all know what was going on in those tours ).

What happens then? a fool dies in a truck accident cause they were probably pissed out drunk and the driver wasnt gonna be left out. So the poor talentless idiot that was a guitar player trapped within the confins of a bass died. What do you do mourn his death? No, get an even more patetic bassplayer to manipulate? yes. How do you do the next album? keep the formula long pointless songs so you can have the "buuhuu the radio does not wants us" attitute. Now they say the hell with it party is over we almost got a grammy out of our stupid talentless 10 minute songs crap lets take the wave again, so they do a short catchy songs to go along with the noise of the time, Gnr where the soft ones and Metallica the hard ones just like todays music in wich Linkin park are the soft ones and Slipknot the hard ones. They got this rock idiot bigtime producer to do an exact formula and their are foolish enough to show how he manipulated the music and even the vocal style to get the sound the public was looking for. What do you do next? sit back and enjoy the cash from sales and tours, you do perhaps work in a new album? why should you if you are making millions. The wave is over gnr dies the market changes where do you go from here? what was going on in the load era? you got it Alternative music, you catch the alterno wave again being the Brutal band in the alternative scene, again a success why should you release or work in new songs when you can just play covers? you are so popular you can take a dump on the guitars record the sounds and every stupid fucking idiot fan like you will call it musical progression. Lets not forget how they followed this " its trendy to record with an orchesta" wave too and made their music sound even more simplistic and patetic. THIS is the metallica i know, the metallica i know so well cause i loved as a kid who like all kids was a moron, but i grew out of it and know the facts well. The only thing that please them is fame and everything that is needed to keep it like getting the atention of the public with the napster crap or posing for playboy counts.

Hetfield is your favorite rhythm guitar player? he is a musical genious? I hope Mikael reads this and laughs as hard as i am right now. how can you say that? you are telling me that a stupid blues player than has absolutely no technique and prides himself of doing some of the most stupid things ever like using downstrokes all the time because he CANT fucking play upstrokes and make it sound good is a genious for you? Lets go back to that example. When you use alternative picking you have a good sense of rhythm to correct your irregularities and compensate them until you acomplish a more standarized picking, getting this is hard and few people i heard master it like Chuck Schuldiner did, Niklas and Frederik back in the minds eye era, if you ever pick up a guitar try playing Zodiackyl light by DT of lack of compression by Death using nothing but downstrokes, and you tell me that is a good technique good enough to make you a genious. You just cant and the only thing you will acomplish is severe damage to your wrist, Hetfield is a fucking idiot who never learned the right way to pick his guitar and prided himself of develpoing speed in downstrokes thinking no one would notice how alternate picking are actually better and economical if you are good enough to PLAY them but he thinks he is better cause he plays like a 70's punk idiot and telling all the kids out there that is ok to hide behind it cause no one really knows what is best in guitar technique. THIS is your genious? What burton is a genius too? a stupid asshole that realized that guitars are supposed to have 6 strings after he already bought his first bass and just played bass like a guitar? what he could use his fingers? big deal anyone with 2 months of classical guitar traning can, he knew a lot about music? how come he never did something original and used the same boring rythms, the same scales over and over ( blues offshot scales ) the same boring thing that the guitar does over and over? the same harmony over and over doing nothing but fiths and 8ths so the guitars sound completly consonant and you dont make a mistake in the harmony? yea this guy is a musical genious. What about the drumming? i have never played drums for more than 5 consecutive minutes and i can play EVERY SINGLE FUCKING METALLICA SONG BY MEMORY ON DRUMS WITHOUT MISTAKES ok? and i suck at drums he is the most boring untalented and uncreative drummer to ever take a drumkit, he does nothing he has being doing the same thing over and over and never used a sincopated lick, never used some contratempo stuff, the only stuff that went outside his linear playing where obiously rooted in the guitar and just follows it like one just follows the picking.

The solos? Muddy waters could have been playing the exact same solos kirk hammer does about 60 years ago is just patetic blues, bending abuse, hiding behind wah, simplistic and boring tapping patterns, abuse of wammy bar beyond recognition, is the most overrated guitar player who has ever won an award.

In conclusion you are just too stupid to see that Metallica is catchy crap with obious fame objectives and no technical ability at all. How is that even music? that is as much music as Britney spears to me and they deserve even less respect cause they pretended they lie about it and deny it all the time.
 
I have to agree with Misanthrope here. I enjoy some old metallica, but hardly consider them the visionary pioneers that others seem to...and Misanthrope-That was one of the best "angry tirades" I've ever read! I agreed on many points. And to MindzI, IT IS A DIFFERENT BAND! The OLD Metallica had some good songs...the NEW Metallica plays recycled country/blues with distortion, thusly deseving the name I gave them..."Nashvillica"
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
Im glad i hurt your feelings cause you deserve to be hurt if you take bullshit personal.

Lets make some points: Metalheads are all a bunch of idiots. I do not think that anyone here is a metalhead, there could be but everyone here is more open minded. Who cares about Metallica being metalheads? that just makes one more reason to hate them.

Second of all, have you ever even looked at the lyrics in kill em all? seriosly try wiplash THAT IS WHAT metallica was about clubs beer and whores and they admited it in a big number of ocations. Look at the cliff em all videos and see the Metallica fan there is a girl giving a guy a blowjob in the middle of the club, they take kirk's guitar and trash it to hell, this drunken idiots are the metalheads ? this is what metallica started as, rockstar band that enjoyed the cult-like following of a few bunch of idiots and posed with bullet belts and drinked beer for no other reason than to show their fans they are drunken idiots too. How is that music? how is that making an artistic expression? that is making music for the masses and catching the wave of crap it was going on those days being smart enough to change it a bit. That went on until Ozzy came to the rescue and put them in the map then the money was more serious and the fans more and more and the whores kept coming big time ( i mean is Ozzy we all know what was going on in those tours ).

What happens then? a fool dies in a truck accident cause they were probably pissed out drunk and the driver wasnt gonna be left out. So the poor talentless idiot that was a guitar player trapped within the confins of a bass died. What do you do mourn his death? No, get an even more patetic bassplayer to manipulate? yes. How do you do the next album? keep the formula long pointless songs so you can have the "buuhuu the radio does not wants us" attitute. Now they say the hell with it party is over we almost got a grammy out of our stupid talentless 10 minute songs crap lets take the wave again, so they do a short catchy songs to go along with the noise of the time, Gnr where the soft ones and Metallica the hard ones just like todays music in wich Linkin park are the soft ones and Slipknot the hard ones. They got this rock idiot bigtime producer to do an exact formula and their are foolish enough to show how he manipulated the music and even the vocal style to get the sound the public was looking for. What do you do next? sit back and enjoy the cash from sales and tours, you do perhaps work in a new album? why should you if you are making millions. The wave is over gnr dies the market changes where do you go from here? what was going on in the load era? you got it Alternative music, you catch the alterno wave again being the Brutal band in the alternative scene, again a success why should you release or work in new songs when you can just play covers? you are so popular you can take a dump on the guitars record the sounds and every stupid fucking idiot fan like you will call it musical progression. Lets not forget how they followed this " its trendy to record with an orchesta" wave too and made their music sound even more simplistic and patetic. THIS is the metallica i know, the metallica i know so well cause i loved as a kid who like all kids was a moron, but i grew out of it and know the facts well. The only thing that please them is fame and everything that is needed to keep it like getting the atention of the public with the napster crap or posing for playboy counts.

Hetfield is your favorite rhythm guitar player? he is a musical genious? I hope Mikael reads this and laughs as hard as i am right now. how can you say that? you are telling me that a stupid blues player than has absolutely no technique and prides himself of doing some of the most stupid things ever like using downstrokes all the time because he CANT fucking play upstrokes and make it sound good is a genious for you? Lets go back to that example. When you use alternative picking you have a good sense of rhythm to correct your irregularities and compensate them until you acomplish a more standarized picking, getting this is hard and few people i heart master it like Chuck Schuldiner did, Niklas and Frederik back in the minds eye era, if you ever pick up a guitar try playing Zodiackyl light by DT of lack of compression by Death using nothing but downstrokes, and you tell me that is a good technique good enough to make you a genious. You just cant and the only thing you will acomplish is severe damage to your wrist, Hetfield is a fucking idiot who never learned the right way to pick his guitar and prided himself of develpoing speed in downstrokes thinking no one would notice how alternate picking are actually better and economical if you are good enough to PLAY them but he thinks he is better cause he plays like a 70's punk idiot and telling all the kids out there that is ok to hide behind it cause no one really knows what is best in guitar technique. THIS is your genious? What burton is a genius to? a stupid asshole that realized that guitars are supposed to have 6 strings after he already bought his first bass and just played bass like a guitar? what he could use his fingers? big deal anyone with 2 months of classical guitar traning can, he knew a lot about music? how come he never did something original and used the same boring rythms, the same scales over and over ( blues offshot scales ) the same boring thing that the guitar does over and over? the same harmony over and over doing nothing but fiths and 8ths so the guitars sound completly consonant and you dont make a mistake in the harmony? yea this guy is a musical genious. What about the drumming? i have never played drums for more than 5 consecutive minutes and i can play EVERY SINGLE FUCKING METALLICA SONG BY MEMORY ON DRUMS WITHOUT MISTAKES ok? and i suck at drums he is the most boring untalented and uncreative drummer to ever take a drumkit, he does nothing he has being doing the same thing over and over and never used a sincopated lick, never used some contratempo stuff, the only stuff that went outside his linear playing where obiously rooted in the guitar and just follows it like one just follows the picking.

The solos? Muddy waters could have been playing the exact same solos kirk hammer does about 60 years ago is just patetic blues, bending abuse, hiding behind wah, simplistic and boring tapping patterns, abuse of wammy bar beyond recognition, is the most overrated guitar player who has ever wins an award.

In conclusion you are just too stupid to see that Metallica is catchy crap with obious fame objectives and no technical ability at all. How is that even music? that is as much music as Britney spears to me and they deserve even less respect cause they pretended they lie about it and deny it all the time.

I'll get to the point cause I'm too lazy
I was kidding when I said that u hurt my feelings..
Why not just drink, fuck and jam if u can earn your living this way? :) It's not about metal, it's about the meaning of life :p
You're going to get a lot of flaming about Cliff.. the guy is dead.. and I think u shouldn't talk like that.. but I won't go any furher.. just let him R.I.P.
Mikael hadn't even seen how a guitar looks like when Hetfield composed the Puppetz rhythms.. I agree that Mikael is a great guitarist, he IS better than Jaymz, but it was the 80s.. and now it's 2000.
About the downstrokes.. are you kidding? :) I don't think he plays all that stuff only with downstrokes.. he should be REALLY quick and tiredless.. Anyway it took me just a couple of months to be able to use alternate picking.. I don't think Jaymz still plays only with downstrokes.. after 20 years or something.. Lars was never one of the best drummers.. but he's good enough.. Do you mean you can play Blackened on drums? :) It's not just the double-bass drums.. it's the timing.. and I'm sure you can't .. a lot of experienced drummer cannot do it..
Metallica have released 3 or 4 albums that 99% of the ppl listening to metal bow to.. I'm out..
 
Lars Ulrich is on the same level as Ken Owen of Carcass: Proficient-no more, no less...Though Owens work on Heartwork was a lot cooler than ANYTHING Lars Ulprick ever did...
 
Neither Kirk, nor Lars, nor Jason, nor Jaymz were the best musicians.. each on his own instrument.. but they were pretty good as a band.. fuck.. we talk about HISTORY here.. u can't change anything! Ride The Lightning is a FACT! So is Master of Puppets and Justice! You guys should live with it.. instead of trying to flame them..
 
I can play it. Sorry to disappoint you a beginner can play it.

And what is this it was the 80s? when do you think Mozard lives then in the future? time has nothing to do with it, following a trends does.

Why not make a living that way? they shure as hell can but anyone that calls them musicians for that is an idiot. Im not kidding about the downstrokes i have a magazine i borrowed from a friend, a special edition of guitar world called guitar leyends featuring metallica and they show they stupidity and he stated the downstrokes stuff in that, in interviews, countless of times if he does not longer uses them is becaus he realized what a dumbass he was saying is better to play only downstrokes like he DID get your story togheter.

Cliff Burton is an example of people reacting like idiots when one dies, people like Chuck are shure crying at their graves if you think Cliff burton earned any respect or showed any talent in life.

Metallica relased 3 or 4 albums that everyone bows to? so what you are telling me that the majorities are always right? that is what you are saying that just because a lot of people likes them that makes them good? democracy is dumb. Is not my problem 99% of the metalheads are stupid dumb idiots that feel guilty of listening to such crap and wont accept the fact that they where mistaken when they considered Metallica good music or music at all.
 
You know what? That's why I like you :)
I like your points.. even though I certainly don't agree..
Anyway you're not going to change my opinion, neither am I going to change yours.. I've grown up listening to Metallica.. they mean much more to me than you think.. so I wouldn't care even if nowadays they played electronic music or whatever.. I still love their albums..
And I listen to Opeth and DT MUCH more than Metz.. just mentioning :p
cya :)
 
Misanthrope,

What the fuck are you smoking? Pass it along man, I want some too.

Kill 'Em All is a great fucking album. One of the best metal albums of all time imo. Lyrics are trivial, but the music is excellent. I get the same rush from that album I get from ... In Mist She Was Standing, or Twilight. Listen to The Four Horseman, Motorbreath or Phantom Lord. That fucking solo makes you want to drive at 150 mph thru a red light. Pure fucking adrenaline!


Secondly, you can't blame Metallica for the fans, just as you can't blame Opeth if some Korn kids start liking them:). Just fyi, the 80's were fucking different, metal was much more ubiqutuous and fans got away with more stupid stuff.

Thirdly, Cliff's accident was an unfortunate one. To rip on him, while great bass players like Steven Harris of Iron Maiden still consider him the best, is stupid and idiotic.

Fourthly, Hetfield is one of the best riff guitar players in the world. Fuck, when Toni Iommi recognizes his talent, and when it's impossibly hard to play his down strokes in Master Of Puppets, I don't you to tell me otherwise.

Fifthly, he writes great riffs.

Sixthly, they sold out.

Seventhly, you're fucking bitter.
 
Thats a lot of points lets see

1:Kill em all is fast blues, you might LIKE the style hell i love delta blues but is no means good, people can like stuff that is poorly written and executed ( specially the written part ) ive grown to think that all metallica albums are seriously overrrated but THAT one in particular is not to blame cause all bands start off primitive, that does not makes the band bad just makes them rocky honestly orchid is my least favorite Opeth Album, Skydancer is my least favorite DT album im a fan of progression. Not to say metallica really progressed but they learned to write songs in the next albums. Besides half of kill em all is a Megadeth anyway go praise Megadeth who also sold out but they acomplished way way more.

2:You can blame Metallica for their fans, but you can blame them for acting like their fans. I do not dislike a blackmetal band because the fans are a bunch of morons that paint their faces and burn churches i dislike blackmetal because the members of the bands are like that too. If someone takes a picture on himself with a bullet belt and is not in a war or heavy shooting i cannot take him seriously.

3:I choose to stay aside from this because i dislike steve harris too, as a bass player ( as a composer the story could be different )

4:Again who the fuck is toni iommi? someone creative because he spawned metal? perhaps, someone talented as a guitar player? i doubt it. Hetfield is a fucking looser his compositions and riffs are blues on dope, and nowdays country/blues. His technique is poor he seems more concerned in wearing his guitar as low as his wrists can tolerate the pain than to make decent elaborate riffs or having a good technique. That is not the whole story but lets just say no one i know has ever cried to metallica so he is not that sentimetal either his atempts at being sentimental fall flat. O and anyone who is a beginner in guitar and practice 3 hours master of puppets for 2 weeks can get it right with downstrokes, is like lifting weights you just gotta train yourself phisically to resist for a long time there is no talent in that, he is dumb i can play master of puppets twice as fast or half as slow with alternate picking and still sound exactly like the cd, the fact that back then he couldnt play alternate picking is not admirable is patetic and sad, is like a singer who cant do vibrato is just sad. He has never done a single riff that is hard to play for a practiced beginner. I suggest you play guitar for some years and try playing like him then try to play anything else just so you know what im talking about.

5: Look above. Too simple and lacking of the substance that makes simplistic bands great.

6:Of course, but everyone should had seen it coming, a band that does nothing but complain about not being on the radio is a band that obiosly is looking to expand their financial horizons.

7:Indeed
 
Anyway you're not going to change my opinion, neither am I going to change yours.. I've grown up listening to Metallica.. they mean much more to me than you think.. so I wouldn't care even if nowadays they played electronic music or whatever.. I still love their albums..

Then you are not objective you are admitting it. If you are not objetive about dont try to back up your points just say that as personal taste you like them and shut the fuck up about it. If you can look at them in an impartial fashion then do comment but you obiously cant.
 
Originally posted by Misanthrope
Rock started as blues and boogies, blues started as african music by the slaves and then lowclass workers. So all metal comes from african music, Opeth is african music.

Please stop tracing roots back is laughable

Nah - for me the roots stop at Led Zeppelin. I never go deeper, so mine is a much shorter trace than all the way back to African music. :)
 
Well that is irracional did zeppeling spawned out from nowhere and never listen to a single thing to influence them? this is why i do not trace back roots i trace back bands i like and it hits a wall in bands like old death or old benediction or old venom. I think this is what you are doing, its ok everyone does it but what i was trying to say is that i dislike the " x band influenced y band that influenced the O band you love " is really unreasonable to follow that logic cause it ends up in africa.
 
Originally posted by metalmancpa


Nah - for me the roots stop at Led Zeppelin. I never go deeper, so mine is a much shorter trace than all the way back to African music. :)

I think the first Led Zeppelin album is one of the best blues albums of all time. Great album cover too. :cool: :cool:
 
Well well well....I see a lot of debating since I last saw this board. (a whole day or 2 ago) hehe.
Metallica is simply a great band, there's no need to go much deeper than that! Even you said you used to listen to them, Misanthrope. So what, other people started to like them and they got popular & you wanted to be "Different" or something?
Or you found that after you started to play the guitar you could play some of the riffs, so you suddenly stopped liking thier music somehow? Come on, try making at least one ounce of sense here!
Or was it because you "Grew up?" like you said.
 
Originally posted by blakmetalemp
hey what about those NY Yankees?

:lol:

I don't know what to think about this thread.

I agree with Misanthrope on the fact that Metallica's first four albums, while good, are overrated.

What I don't agree with is his metalhead and black metal band theories.

Metalhead seems to have a negative ring to it nowadays and I have no clue why that is. I wholeheartedly can say that I'm a metalhead. All the albums I own are metal albums (well, Ulver - Metamorphosis EP isn't), most of the stuff I listen to is metal hence I'd say I'm a metalhead. What does it mean to me? I love metal. Simple as that.

About the black metal bands. I think it's stupid to ignore bands just because of their image.
 
I see this poll has omitted several cool bands. From those in the list I could say what's is the best in the poll, but not the best I have ever heard.
I think that Opeth and Therion (which are my favorites) must be added.:err: