BM, DM, and religion

[NeverIsForever]

Reading through the "nsbm" thread, it seems like a lot of people don't mind listening to music with messages they may disagree with, as long as the message doesn't take hate to the extreme (i.e. Nazism, and some don't even mind that.) In general, people seem to be pretty open to political views they don't necessarily support. So I was wondering, what are people's opinions on religious expression in music?

I'm not religious, so I personally am not bothered at all when a band expresses either pagan or anti-God sentiments in their songs. But I can see how people who are religious could find some of it offensive. If that's the case, do you listen to it anyway?

Oh, and I apologize in advance if this has been a topic on this forum before...

 

[Metalloid]

I am an atheist, so I don't really care. Well actually, I probably would not really enjoy listening to Christian rock bands or bands of that nature. My friend is a Christian and he listens to some pretty anti-religious music. Although I have noticed that the more he gets involved in the religious thing, the less he listens to this type of music.

I stray further and further away from religion with each passing day.

 

[R0l0]

I'm not religious and I also don't mind at all if some band expresses their religious views in their music. However, I usually respect it more when the music is about a religion/philosophy itself rather than against another. e.g., I'd prefer a "satanic" song about being at one with nature as opposed to one that is anti-christian. Cause in that case it just becomes another form of ignorance-themed music in my eyes.

I also don't mind "Christian" music either if it is good. Not that I'm big a fan of christian rock, but I like a lot of classical music and find that many of the lyrics in operas and stuff have religious themes. Classic religious art also comes to mind. I went to a museum in Warsaw this past summer and was blown away with all the beutiful paintings, sculptures etc devoted to Catholicism. I may not agree with the philosophy that an artist/musician may want to portray in their art, but I can definately still appreciate and respect it.

 

[affinityband]

Its up to personal choice i guess, i mean each band has its own way of expressing themselves, some black metal bands (Norweigen) find the best way to express and promote their music is to bring out the old nordic way of life. Alot of them want christianity out of their country. And this leads them sometimes to murder and chruch burning. but its interesting even though they are satanists, from what i can gather, they very much practice their own way of life and make their own rules. These ules can be taken to the extreme with murder and any physical violence, to do whats necassary for their cause. These types of people can be very dangerous, as if they make rules for themselves the less boundarys they set, so that is why they end up doing what they do. but alot of black metal bands are not murderers. the extreme ones go towards burzum and mayhem, and a few other underground bands( gorgorths singer is in prison constanly for causing trouble). where as immortal are pretty harmless guys and just use the religion they choose so they dont limit themselves ( Most of it is heritage, if im mistaken correct me).
In their music there is anger and hatred and a cold sense. if any strong christian were to listen to it, they would be immediatley offended by it. i guess that it could be measured by how deep you are into your religion for it to give effect. strong beliefs will say it is wrong, personally im not religious i dont mind what i listen to.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

i'm an atheist, so i don't really mind either way...a lot of bands use the norse myths as concepts for lyrics, which i think is cool because, well, they're interesting stories!

i don't listen to any bands with a christian message...but on the other hand if a band's lyrics are all "satan! hail satan! worship the devil!" i'm not as inclined to respect them either......the music is just usually better, venom for example ...they were a little tongue in cheek though, kinda different

 

[Don Corleone]

i care a lot about lyrics. it can really make me NOT like a band if i find lyrics not sincere...or are just poorly written.

im a muslim but then again i have to admit im not one of the really religious ones. for instance im a bit stoned at the moment. you cant believe how long it takes me to type this.

anyways
i do listen to black metal, stuff like burzum, emperor, cradle of filth, immortal etc even though i dont agree with most of the stuff they talk about

it's like reading a novel...or watching a movie which contains stuff you dont approve of. but when you look at it artistically, you like it. why deny yourself of such good art just because someone has different views from you and gets to voice it?

 

[Jon Snow]

I'm a deist, which means I'm confused. Religious or anti-religious themes don't matter to me.

 

[Botfly]

I am one who believes in God of the Holy Bible. I hate religeon, because it's BS! "No fish Fridays" and eating of certain things and doing a certain amount of summersaults in order tolive another day... there is no point to any of it. But honestly, unlike many christians, I have a huge amount of respect for art. Though, when listening to Dimmu Borgir's "Enthrone Darkness Triumphant" it's hard to stomach the morally corrupt garbage they spew from their ignorant minds (Plus the simplistic songwriting).

I hate christian rock period for the lack of art form. I hate completly ignorant music. I have no respect for close mindedness and lack of art form. It's all about music with a passion, with a purpose, and whole-heartedly convey feelings and stories.

 

[Luz]

I don't believe in nothing so it doesn't matter to me at all.
Sometimes I listen bands where the lyrics content is obsolete/funny as hell (Cannibal Corpse) I mean, I really like them, but their lyrics makes me laugh. So I care about the sound/music.
I do care about lyrics but sometimes the lyrics are so fucking stupid that I only care about music. Yeah, quite a contradiction, who cares?
Damn, after reading what I'm going to post I didn't understand a shit. Fuck.

 

[deliverance]

I am an atheist, so I don't really care. Well actually, I probably would not really enjoy listening to Christian rock bands or bands of that nature.

that's my stance too.

Its up to personal choice i guess, i mean each band has its own way of expressing themselves, some black metal bands (Norweigen) find the best way to express and promote their music is to bring out the old nordic way of life. Alot of them want christianity out of their country. And this leads them sometimes to murder and chruch burning. but its interesting even though they are satanists, from what i can gather, they very much practice their own way of life and make their own rules. These ules can be taken to the extreme with murder and any physical violence, to do whats necassary for their cause. These types of people can be very dangerous, as if they make rules for themselves the less boundarys they set, so that is why they end up doing what they do. but alot of black metal bands are not murderers. the extreme ones go towards burzum and mayhem, and a few other underground bands( gorgorths singer is in prison constanly for causing trouble). where as immortal are pretty harmless guys and just use the religion they choose so they dont limit themselves ( Most of it is heritage, if im mistaken correct me).
In their music there is anger and hatred and a cold sense. if any strong christian were to listen to it, they would be immediatley offended by it. i guess that it could be measured by how deep you are into your religion for it to give effect. strong beliefs will say it is wrong, personally im not religious i dont mind what i listen to.

hmm, some interesting stuff in there, that I never thought of, thanks

 

[JColtrane]

Hey, what's up y'all. I am a Christian, so I thought I should chime in on this subject. For me, it is a fine line to walk with lyrical content of secular or Christian bands. Obviously there is a lot of diversity in the Christian faith, so we don't all believe the exact same thing and that comes out in some lyrics. For secular music, I am usually fine with just about anything, lyrics that critisize religion are fine with me, because there are things to be critisized (and there are many Christian metal bands that critisize religion). However, bands that truly are 'satanists' or say something to the effect of 'all Christians are stupid' bother me too much to be able to listen to them. That stuff is usually pretty mindless anyways (like Decide or something like that), and I wouldn't care to listen to it in the first place. Bands that are on the border for me are bands like Emperor or Slayer, who have great intelligent music but their lyrics bother me. Bands who have great lyrics and great music are my favorite type of bands, such as Virgin Black or Saviour Machine or Extol. So I guess my faith does influence what bands I enjoy b/c those bands impact me in a way secular bands can't, on a spiritual level.

 

[Kenneth R.]

agreed mostly with JColtrane...

my stance is i'll listen to anything that promotes their views, but if they start stepping on the views and beliefs of others, its not ok with me. i enjoy christian rock bands, death metal bands, alternative, jazz, it makes no difference. as long as the music is good-- and the lyrics either indifferent or pro-stance on the subject. i enjoy pro-pagan music, pro-buddhist, etc etc. i just get pissed when bands are anti-jew, anti-muslim... etc.

 

[milkman]

I'm a protestant but not a very religious person. Something anti-christan doesn't really bother me since what I listen to doesn't necessarily reflect my beliefs.

However, (as stated by someone above, though not really in the same manner) I'll listen to the music if it's simply good. If the satanic lyrics are not done tastfully (ie "Hail Satan" etc...) then it just becomes silly/stupid.

So, maybe I'm trying to say that I don't like to listen to blatantly anti-christian bands but not because they offend me - I just prefer music with a real message (or at least real in the sense that I can relate to it).

 

[The Dude]

I guess I'm agnostic. Religion has inspired some truly great music throughout history. Also some really bad music.
Christian rock pisses me off like nothing else.

 

[Shadows Skulk]

I'm an atheist who is somewhat anti-Christian, so I don't listen to preachy Christian bands, and I have no problem listening to anti-Christian bands. Pro-satanism bands are more acceptable to me because humanism is okay in my book.

 

[narcoleptic haze]

This is my biggest problem with this type of music. I love the music but am often scared off by the lyrics or themes of these Death, Black Metal bands. I am a christian (not catholic), who likes heavy music, but could never stomach the terrible lyrics/themes that were all about blood, and killing, and satan.
Luckly Opeth have not gone in that direction, but have still maintained extremly dark and emotional lyrics. It did take me a while however to accept Still Life (although I think this is more aimed at extreme catholic. But I figure it's just a story he's telling. Like a movie or a novel, so I can deal with it. And that line from Deliverance, took a while too. Where he says 'Devil guides the way. Tells me what to say...', that still worries me... And it's suck a good part of the song too...

If the new album is too far into this 'Occult' theme I may not be able to get into it... Which i'm not looking forward to.. I remember reading that Mike said the stuff he wrote when he was younger was close to satanic chants. I hope he doesn't go in that direction again.

One more thing, I find it very funny when ppl say they follow the Devil, but don't believe in God, or that there even is a God. That's just funny. If there's a Devil, there's a God. And visa versa.

But that's just IMO.

 

[Ermz]

It depends. Most death metal bands I listen to either do the cliche death and gore thing, or aim political statements at contemporary affairs. I can deal with that because it's just an avenue of expression, as music tends to be.

The deal with that is that I'm not in direct opposition to any of the ideals usually expressed (no, that doesn't mean I enjoy raping infants and eating entrails etc.). Most people that resort to satanic imagery in their lyrics just use those as extreme metaphors to represent breaking free of religious dogma etc. I don't actually take most satanic lyrics at face value, and if I do, I presume that the band intended them to be taken light-heartedly.

I haven't yet heard any of these Christian death metal bands, but that to me just sounds like the ultimate oxymoron. It's akin to going to an african-american liberation rally wearing a KKK suit and expecting to be welcomed with open arms. Death metal generally orients itself around destroying societal ideals and cultural taboos... it does this in a full frontal manner. To get a notion such as Christianity and incorporate it into a scene that contradicts everything it stands for seems really strange to me.

 

[affinityband]

''One more thing, I find it very funny when ppl say they follow the Devil, but don't believe in God, or that there even is a God. That's just funny. If there's a Devil, there's a God. And visa versa.''

When Alot of people say that it could mean it depends on what they belive. As a generalisation satanism is a very loose religion in terms of rules, as i said earlier its a very personal thing to someone, and is built around the person themself. in which case, when people say they belive something this could be taken into the fact that this belief is an idolisation. so when you belive in christianity you belive in 'god' obviously you believe in 'satan'. but in satanism it is very different. there is no good or bad. its up to personal choice. you make the guidlines and rules. although this can be very dangerous with certain types of people. but its the same in any type of religion. theres always the extremists. Satanism is maybe a form of humanitarism in the right hands. not all satanists are bad people. infact id say there are more cases of evil doings to human kind in the 'bigger' religions. but this is just from research of both matters as im doing this subject for my art A level. doing a biblical referance piece.

 

[Longinus]

I love Gildenlöws view on religion as a whole. Its so ingenius.


Wish I was being sarcastic.

To answer your question: no

 

[The Dude]

nah, there are no set rules in religion. you can say you believe in satan but not in god, whatever

The whole point of organised religion is that it has rules.

man, can you even tell when you're being sarcastic anymore, because I can't.

too tired time for bed.