Controversial opinions on metal
- Thread starter The Ozzman
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Thrash metal is aggressive and extreme for the time. It's influencial on extreme metal in general. Is Imperial Doom the same as Show No Mercy or Where No Life Dwells the same as Kill 'em All ?. Possessed-seven churches is black metal,thrash, and death metal. Does that mean thrash,black,and death metal is the samething to.
Serjeant Grumbles
Active Member
- Mar 20, 2005
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You can't possibly peg folk metal into a single tier, let alone dump it all into a lower tier than genres that are overtly non-metal like grunge and hard rock. That umbrella includes bands that are rooted in everything from epic doom metal to atmospheric black metal. Stuff like Mael Mordha belongs much closer to the top of the list.
Hell, it's plenty silly lumping all gothic metal towards the bottom. If you're looking at, as you say, Sisters-of-Mercy-with-heavier-guitars type bands, sure, since post-Wildhoney Tiamat is as much gothic rock as gothic metal. But the early doom progenitors of the style, e.g. My Dying Bride, are at about the same level as stoner doom. Early Theatre of Tragedy is not too far behind, nor is anything that has a strong doom element.
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HamburgerBoy
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I'm saying they're of equivalent levels of metalness, not that they're the exact same thing musically.
I've never heard of Mael Mordha tbh; listening to Winds of One Thousand Winters on YouTube I'd probably call this epic doom metal, so if this is representative of their sound then sure, they're plenty metallic. I'm thinking along the lines of the kind of folk metal that reaches the most people and tends to be more representative, e.g. Korpiklaani or Eluveitie or whatever. I don't really have enough interest in folk metal to split it into further categories, but I'll acknowledge that the ranking is a rough average of various sounds and doesn't represent every single band that could be called folk metal.
I'd probably just lump early My Dying Bride into doom or death metal. I would put Velvet Darkness They Fear very low on the metalness scale, unless you mean just the very first album which I haven't heard much of. Since those early sounds generally don't represent what the bands are known for, I don't put much value in how metal those are when regarding goth metal on the whole.
Serjeant Grumbles
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Velvet Darkness They Fear is not "very low" on the metalness scale, that's just your own bias talking. It retains death-doom influence in its sound, with a thick, heavy guitar tone, and the riffing may be pretty simple for the most part, but it's not just strumming out chord progressions either. There are keyboards present, and a lot of subdued sections interspersed throughout, but even metal in its purest form doesn't have to be balls out heavy from start to finish. ToT is not at all metal in its purest form, but it's way more metal than you think it is. That is, before they went electropop.
Just contrast this:
with this:
One is clearly metal while the other is more rock-oriented.
There is no band that represents the genre as a whole, like you can say that Candlemass epitomizes epic doom metal, but the fact that you mentioned Anathema shows that you are off base in your conception of it. Anathema hasn't been metal of any kind since Alternative 4, when they started playing alt rock, not goth rock - similar to The Gathering.
Plenty of more recent bands play gothic/doom metal, and that's generally what I go for, since they are not only heavier, but more "gothic" than a lot of the other stuff that passes for gothic metal nowadays.
Just contrast this:
with this:
One is clearly metal while the other is more rock-oriented.
There is no band that represents the genre as a whole, like you can say that Candlemass epitomizes epic doom metal, but the fact that you mentioned Anathema shows that you are off base in your conception of it. Anathema hasn't been metal of any kind since Alternative 4, when they started playing alt rock, not goth rock - similar to The Gathering.
Plenty of more recent bands play gothic/doom metal, and that's generally what I go for, since they are not only heavier, but more "gothic" than a lot of the other stuff that passes for gothic metal nowadays.
alex76
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Controversial Opinion:
Sadus' Elements of Anger dangerously competes with Chemical Exposure as being their best album (though I would still give it to Chemical Exposure), and is, at any rate, an underrated metal masterpiece.
Sadus' Elements of Anger dangerously competes with Chemical Exposure as being their best album (though I would still give it to Chemical Exposure), and is, at any rate, an underrated metal masterpiece.
The most important traditional doom albums of recent years were those put out by Revelation, Reverend Bizarre and Warning.
Griftegård was the first band to take prominent influence from modern classics in the genre (Warning and Reverend Bizarre) without blatantly copying them like bands such as Pallbearer. They're probably the next band to really have a major impact as time goes on.
I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I posted it here just in case.
Griftegård was the first band to take prominent influence from modern classics in the genre (Warning and Reverend Bizarre) without blatantly copying them like bands such as Pallbearer. They're probably the next band to really have a major impact as time goes on.
I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I posted it here just in case.
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
On a personal level, The Gates of Slumber and Hour of 13 dwarf all of those except RevBiz.
Griftegard is nothing special to me at all. Warning comes off as too emotional for me to really want to listen to often though so maybe if that's a prime influence therein lies the problem.
Griftegard is nothing special to me at all. Warning comes off as too emotional for me to really want to listen to often though so maybe if that's a prime influence therein lies the problem.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
For me, the most recent traditional doom metal albums that matter the most have been Atlantean Kodex (if they count, they're just as heavy metal as they are doom metal if not more), The Wizar'd, Revelation, While Heaven Wept, Lord Vicar to a lesser degree and of course Reverend Bizarre.
I'm yet to actually get around to hearing Procession.
I'm yet to actually get around to hearing Procession.
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
I pretty much agree with Omni. I like to refer to RevBiz and Warning as the birth of something like "modern traditional doom" but that sounds gay as fuck. Griftegard is definitely the best band of that style in recent memory, but stuff like Hour of 13 (which does not follow that modern trad doom sound) is awesome. Gates of Slumber are wonderful too but they belong in the other camp.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Reverend Bizarre are fucking Reverend Bizarre. They should get their own genre of "long as fuck but not boring or redundant doom metal"
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
Writing 25 minute songs via a fairly basic traditional doom metal structure is a pretty fucking good middle-finger to the masses. It's almost like a test of will.
Master_Yoda77
Juggalo
Vilden
From the holy kingdom of Harmonia
When I think of modern doom I see atleast two prominent branches. The slow Revbiz school and the occult rocky school like The Lamp of Thoth, Hour of 13, etc. Personally I think neither is that interesting. My favorite modern bands are the ones playing Candlemass inspired epicness like Forsaken. But I'm gay like that.
BTW, I don't view Atlantean Kodex or even later (post Of Empires...) While Heaven Wept as doom, it is epic heavy metal imo.
Edit: The best long ass Reverend Bizarre song is obviously Cirith Ungol with Anywhere Out of This World as second.
BTW, I don't view Atlantean Kodex or even later (post Of Empires...) While Heaven Wept as doom, it is epic heavy metal imo.
Edit: The best long ass Reverend Bizarre song is obviously Cirith Ungol with Anywhere Out of This World as second.
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I was antsy about including them because I basically agree with you. I tend to prefer everything with an epic twist myself. My favourite modern doom metal band would have to be The Wizar'd I guess, perhaps tied with Reverend Bizarre.
H.P. Lovecraft
Active Member
25 minute? Pah. Be real men like Sleep and make it an hour long.
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
CiG
Harbinger of Metal
I don't even like Sleep but Dopesmoker is pretty crazy, difference is they utilised hypnotic elements to make it digestible. Reverend Bizarre didn't give a fuck to do that, drugs can get you through Dopesmoker pretty easily too.
H.P. Lovecraft
Active Member
Even as a Sleep fanboy, I can say you're right about the hypnoticism making it more digestible. Rev. Bizarre should write something Dopesmoker length, without the hypno spin, release it as an album like Sleep, and dare you to call them out for it. As something of a longtime teetotaler, I can't say I'd know how easy drugs would make it, but I'd imagine it'd be like waltzing through Candyland levels of ease.
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