Controversial opinions on metal
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HamburgerBoy
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Today they normally give autism as a diagnosis to people with certain character traits, such as a heterogeneous intelligence, hyper-sensitivity (to noise, to certain fabrics, to changes in routines etc.), special interests, a tendency to think with images rather than words, a special ability to focus and see details where others don’t, a special interest in collections and/or other traits.
They normally differ between “high functioning” autists (often just called “Aspergers”) and “low functioning” autists, and the latter is usually what normal people think of when they hear about autism. I am going to talk about the former here, because they are very interesting from an historical perspective and there is nothing wrong with them – unless of course they also have some problems that are not actually related to their autism, like many non-autistic human beings have too.
Aspergers are often socially a bit difficult to relate to for many, but they possess some abilities that normal human beings simply don’t have, and they are therefore believed to have been extremely over-represented in all the types of work where the combination of extremely high intelligence, exceptional sense for details, complete disregard for what other pople think about them, an extreme ability to focus and exceptionally good memory has been important. Somewhat jokingly researchers on autism have said that probably every single great historical figure in the history of man was an Asperger: political leaders, inventors, generals, composers, scientists and you name it. Only Aspergers have the exceptional abilities needed for this, they claim (and I agree).
Asperger is a “diagnosis” today, and this is of course very odd, because Asperger only means that you are different, that your brain works in a different way. There is nothing wrong with Aspergers! They just work in a different way.
My (Asperger) wife has suggested on atala.fr that the features of an Asperger might well be features inherited from our Neanderthal forebears. When our forebears mixed with Homo sapiens the skulls changed a bit, over time of course, and because of that the brain changed too, and the Europan man became dumber and also less happy. So unhappy in fact that he started to do all sorts of things to help his situation; he created art because he no longer was able to see the (details of the) beauty of nature itself, and he created civilisation and new technology, because he could not bear life any more and tried to make it better.
Aspergers too suffer from this metaphysical vertigo, and I dare say; in particular Aspergers suffer from this metaphysical vertigo, because they see and understand so much more of the natural and original state of things than the normal people do, and probably all the innovations and technology was brought about by Aspergers.
Normal people are more like homo sapiens…. they are not very inventive, they are not very artistic, they are not very good leaders, they don’t plan ahead so much, they desperately need friends, they commonly care a lot about what others think about them and don’t usually want to be different, etc. And they are not very smart either.
Asperger is a “diagnosis” alright, and you either have it or you don’t, but the traits that identify an Asperger are many, and you don’t have to have all of them, or all of them to such a degre that you would have been given the “diagnosis” Asperger had you been examined for this, in order to be seen as having a European mind. In Europe we can even see entire tribes thinking much like Aspergers. The most obvious example is of course Finland, but also the Scandinavians are very much behaving like Aspergers on a collective level. They e. g. more or less need to intoxicate themselves with alcohol in order to even communicate with each other on a “modern” (…) level, and see a week or two alone in a cabin in the middle of nowhere as the best holiday there is – away from all others, and the less electricity and running water there is the better!
And why not? Do you think our nomadic forebears were so very sociable? Do you think Europe was so very crowded that wherever they turned they bumped into others? No! They were very much alone, in small groups (families), and only talked to others every now and then, when they met them most commonly in pre-arranged meeting places (to exchange news and not least to find spouces for their children). The ultra-social and highly un-European societies we live in today are very alien to our European nature! No wonder why we need to intoxicate ourselves to “work” in accordance with modern social rules!
Now, these “Asperger tribes” up there in Northern Europe also happen to be the most racially pure tribes of Europe, with the most Neanderthal features. So why would they not also have the highest percentage of Asperger (Neanderthal) “symptoms”?
Post-homo sapiens-infected Europe was a changed society, but the more or less mixed Europeans were for sure able to still recognize those good old European mental characteristics, and this brings us back to The Princess and the Pea. To keep and even cultivate these European qualities they created systems to find them; and this explains the coming of the European religion, grown out from the Neanderthal Bear Cult. In The Princess and the Pea we see that they wanted to see if she was hyper-sensitive; if she could feel the pea under those 20 mattresses and those 20 featherbeds. When she could feel the pea, and even failed to sleep because of it, they knew that she for sure was a true European, and not just European by looks – so the prince wanted to marry her! You see: these Neanderthal characteristics are passed on from parents to children…
Most of the Europeans who also look European are also more European in mind than they are African, even though they are not and probably would not be diagnosed as “Aspergers”, but many “Europeans” are really not mentally European.
Just like we ensure that the best amongst us survive in context with beauty/health, physical strength, creative abilities, intelligence, honesty, courage and so forth, we must ensure that we cultivate the European way of thinking and being too. The only way to do so is to embrace the European religion, which was made for this very purpose in the wake of the mixing of species (starting some 100,000 years ago). The European religion is a tool to heal Europe, and to restore the European man, in flesh and spirit, in blood and mind. HailaR WôðanaR!
~Varg
They normally differ between “high functioning” autists (often just called “Aspergers”) and “low functioning” autists, and the latter is usually what normal people think of when they hear about autism. I am going to talk about the former here, because they are very interesting from an historical perspective and there is nothing wrong with them – unless of course they also have some problems that are not actually related to their autism, like many non-autistic human beings have too.
Aspergers are often socially a bit difficult to relate to for many, but they possess some abilities that normal human beings simply don’t have, and they are therefore believed to have been extremely over-represented in all the types of work where the combination of extremely high intelligence, exceptional sense for details, complete disregard for what other pople think about them, an extreme ability to focus and exceptionally good memory has been important. Somewhat jokingly researchers on autism have said that probably every single great historical figure in the history of man was an Asperger: political leaders, inventors, generals, composers, scientists and you name it. Only Aspergers have the exceptional abilities needed for this, they claim (and I agree).
Asperger is a “diagnosis” today, and this is of course very odd, because Asperger only means that you are different, that your brain works in a different way. There is nothing wrong with Aspergers! They just work in a different way.
My (Asperger) wife has suggested on atala.fr that the features of an Asperger might well be features inherited from our Neanderthal forebears. When our forebears mixed with Homo sapiens the skulls changed a bit, over time of course, and because of that the brain changed too, and the Europan man became dumber and also less happy. So unhappy in fact that he started to do all sorts of things to help his situation; he created art because he no longer was able to see the (details of the) beauty of nature itself, and he created civilisation and new technology, because he could not bear life any more and tried to make it better.
Aspergers too suffer from this metaphysical vertigo, and I dare say; in particular Aspergers suffer from this metaphysical vertigo, because they see and understand so much more of the natural and original state of things than the normal people do, and probably all the innovations and technology was brought about by Aspergers.
Normal people are more like homo sapiens…. they are not very inventive, they are not very artistic, they are not very good leaders, they don’t plan ahead so much, they desperately need friends, they commonly care a lot about what others think about them and don’t usually want to be different, etc. And they are not very smart either.
Asperger is a “diagnosis” alright, and you either have it or you don’t, but the traits that identify an Asperger are many, and you don’t have to have all of them, or all of them to such a degre that you would have been given the “diagnosis” Asperger had you been examined for this, in order to be seen as having a European mind. In Europe we can even see entire tribes thinking much like Aspergers. The most obvious example is of course Finland, but also the Scandinavians are very much behaving like Aspergers on a collective level. They e. g. more or less need to intoxicate themselves with alcohol in order to even communicate with each other on a “modern” (…) level, and see a week or two alone in a cabin in the middle of nowhere as the best holiday there is – away from all others, and the less electricity and running water there is the better!
And why not? Do you think our nomadic forebears were so very sociable? Do you think Europe was so very crowded that wherever they turned they bumped into others? No! They were very much alone, in small groups (families), and only talked to others every now and then, when they met them most commonly in pre-arranged meeting places (to exchange news and not least to find spouces for their children). The ultra-social and highly un-European societies we live in today are very alien to our European nature! No wonder why we need to intoxicate ourselves to “work” in accordance with modern social rules!
Now, these “Asperger tribes” up there in Northern Europe also happen to be the most racially pure tribes of Europe, with the most Neanderthal features. So why would they not also have the highest percentage of Asperger (Neanderthal) “symptoms”?
Post-homo sapiens-infected Europe was a changed society, but the more or less mixed Europeans were for sure able to still recognize those good old European mental characteristics, and this brings us back to The Princess and the Pea. To keep and even cultivate these European qualities they created systems to find them; and this explains the coming of the European religion, grown out from the Neanderthal Bear Cult. In The Princess and the Pea we see that they wanted to see if she was hyper-sensitive; if she could feel the pea under those 20 mattresses and those 20 featherbeds. When she could feel the pea, and even failed to sleep because of it, they knew that she for sure was a true European, and not just European by looks – so the prince wanted to marry her! You see: these Neanderthal characteristics are passed on from parents to children…
Most of the Europeans who also look European are also more European in mind than they are African, even though they are not and probably would not be diagnosed as “Aspergers”, but many “Europeans” are really not mentally European.
Just like we ensure that the best amongst us survive in context with beauty/health, physical strength, creative abilities, intelligence, honesty, courage and so forth, we must ensure that we cultivate the European way of thinking and being too. The only way to do so is to embrace the European religion, which was made for this very purpose in the wake of the mixing of species (starting some 100,000 years ago). The European religion is a tool to heal Europe, and to restore the European man, in flesh and spirit, in blood and mind. HailaR WôðanaR!
~Varg
alex76
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EternalMetal
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Well honestly Metallica mostly, but I dont think I ever said they were a 'clone' band by nature. Testament were somewhat unique in that they basically defined the sound of 'standard thrash' without injecting their own sense of style or being overly punk influenced. Yea, I am kind of making the claim that they are "completely generic", but considering this was without precedent at the time, maybe you could just say that they just havent aged that well? The first two albums are decent. These guys can play really well, easily on par with or better than other bands in the thrash scene, but I find most of their material rather forgettable, which to me is more important than looking at the technicalities of their style.
OK, then I must have misunderstood you.
I'd like to add that only bought Testament's first three albums (and the "Live At Eindhoven"-EP), resold "PWYP" to a friend after a couple of years and nowadays only still listen to "The Legacy" every once in a while. But that's not something which only goes for Testament. It happened in many other cases as well that I stopped buying the albums of bands I originally liked a lot after their second, third or fourth album, either because I didn't like the musical direction they were taking or because I wasn't interested in only - more or less - good copies of what they had (IMO) done better before.
no country for old wainds
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it's been a while but from what i can recall, i think i would like testament more if they sounded MORE like metallica tbh
HamburgerBoy
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I guess if you said "vanilla"/"plain" rather than "generic" I'd agree. I think there's a lot of other vanilla thrash that gets a pass simply due to it not having as much spotlight as Testament, though. Ultimately, Testament is a thrash band for people that like thrash metal, for people that don't like thrash (except of a prefixed or in-crowd variety), naturally they won't appeal.
I'm only talking about Breaking the Silence to be honest, which I feel is the stronger album. "Set Me Free" was clearly a concession to have a single for the album, so I won't factor that into my opinions on the level of focus on the album. I can't agree with your other criticisms of the album in terms of considering them to show a lack of focus.
The Legacy is a competent album, but it's fairly samey overall and it doesn't have anything on it that stays with me like songs on Breaking the Silence.
HamburgerBoy
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I still don't understand how The Legacy can be simultaneously unfocused and samey. What do you mean by "focus"?
Heathen seems comfortable and like they know what they can do. The album shows their capabilities well and has memorable songs on it.
Testament is competent but their songs are pretty safe and they really don't display the same level of confidence. They stick mainly to one thing and play it safe.
I can see how you would be confused by what I meant, so I hope that this clarifies it.
I also think that David White is a much better vocalist overall than Chuck Billy and he adds a lot of energy.
Testament is competent but their songs are pretty safe and they really don't display the same level of confidence. They stick mainly to one thing and play it safe.
I can see how you would be confused by what I meant, so I hope that this clarifies it.
I also think that David White is a much better vocalist overall than Chuck Billy and he adds a lot of energy.
EternalMetal
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Is the difference between 'plain' and 'generic' really that significant? Otherwise the last part sounds about right. Most of my thrash friends hold Testament in really high esteem, but my other friends who are into a wider variety of metal arent too particular about them.
They werent particularly exciting live (recently) either, and the second time I saw them they were playing mostly old classics from the first 2 or 3 album (so you would expect them to be at their best). Spot on musicianship of course, but it just didnt excite me live like most other thrash.
HamburgerBoy
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Death by Hanging, Pray for Death, and Save the Skull are some of the most rudimentary thrash metal songs I'm aware of. If anything Heathen was a band that played well under their capabilities to hop onto a new trend, David White and Doug Piercy both being AOR guys that got into thrash by the good fortune of living in San Francisco in the early 80s. There are some fancy guitar leads involved, but the riffing and songwriting is unimaginative and heavily indebted to early Exodus. Aside from the occasional melodic intro or whatever, it's all pretty straight forward 16th note chugging and a few descending power chords on the end, with some added harmony guitar taken straight out of pre-album Exodus (compare Death Row with Goblin's Blade for example). The Legacy has a lot more variety in technique, even if it doesn't try the obligatory mid-tempo song for forced variety.
I think the singing on the first album is actually pretty awful; he got better on the second album when he retrained his voice to adapt to a kind of melodic thrash, rather than a Geddy Lee clone pretending he's Paul Baloff or whatever the fuck he was even trying to do. Like, when he's actually singing, yeah he's probably a technically better singer than Chuck Billy, but I don't hear that energy at all. Take a song like Open the Grave (which I actually like despite being a couple minutes overlong), that chorus it's like he's harsh-whispers it, there's no sustain and volume to his voice at all, just (let me out). Chuck Billy has shrieks and shit all over the place on The Legacy, and if anything he's probably one of the more charismatic thrash frontmen out there. I will admit that the verses on Breaking the Silence at least have proper vocal melodies, however; Chuck basically just tries to fit the lyrics onto thrash riffs where others would at least try to play off of them, but for a relatively fast and aggressive album like The Legacy, it's not a big deal.
I don't get the big deal with sticking to one thing anyways. Darkness Descends sticks mostly to one thing. The first Whiplash sticks to one thing. Most death metal in general sticks to one thing. No one demands a Fade to Black or a Heroes End on a Slayer album, why one on a Testament album?
EDIT: irt Omni
I think the singing on the first album is actually pretty awful; he got better on the second album when he retrained his voice to adapt to a kind of melodic thrash, rather than a Geddy Lee clone pretending he's Paul Baloff or whatever the fuck he was even trying to do. Like, when he's actually singing, yeah he's probably a technically better singer than Chuck Billy, but I don't hear that energy at all. Take a song like Open the Grave (which I actually like despite being a couple minutes overlong), that chorus it's like he's harsh-whispers it, there's no sustain and volume to his voice at all, just (let me out). Chuck Billy has shrieks and shit all over the place on The Legacy, and if anything he's probably one of the more charismatic thrash frontmen out there. I will admit that the verses on Breaking the Silence at least have proper vocal melodies, however; Chuck basically just tries to fit the lyrics onto thrash riffs where others would at least try to play off of them, but for a relatively fast and aggressive album like The Legacy, it's not a big deal.
I don't get the big deal with sticking to one thing anyways. Darkness Descends sticks mostly to one thing. The first Whiplash sticks to one thing. Most death metal in general sticks to one thing. No one demands a Fade to Black or a Heroes End on a Slayer album, why one on a Testament album?
EDIT: irt Omni
HamburgerBoy
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Satanstoenail
My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle
Charisma is 100% subjective. I don't find him charismatic or memorable.
Also, when was David White an AOR singer? I have never heard of this and there's no info about it on Wikipedia or Metal Archives. I would love to hear him if it's true.
HamburgerBoy
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In the pre-metal Blind Illusion:
Or maybe you could call it pomp rock or something.
I basically agree with this; when he does sing a hook, he's usually singing along with a guitar line.
Or maybe you could call it pomp rock or something.
I basically agree with this; when he does sing a hook, he's usually singing along with a guitar line.
suckerleaf
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