Controversial opinions on metal

[alex76]

You have to be in the right frame of mind for Obituary. Sometimes it is exactly what you want/need though. Testimony of the Ancients is a must-have, although it is more hybrid than just a straight death metal album.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I appreciated Obituary more when I used them as working or driving music rather than internet or primary-attention music.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Testimony of the Ancients is a must-have, although it is more hybrid than just a straight death metal album.

Totally under-appreciated album, especially around these parts.

 

[Mort Divine]

it is appreciated the right amount if not too much

 

[EternalMetal]

You have to be in the right frame of mind for Obituary. Sometimes it is exactly what you want/need though. Testimony of the Ancients is a must-have, although it is more hybrid than just a straight death metal album.

Agreed with Obituary. Some of their stuff is overly simple so you have to have that 'less is more' kind of mindset when listening to them. Or just be stoned or something and just drown in their tone and classic death metal/Lovecraftian themes.

As for Pestilence, ive always put Consuming Impulse over Testimony, but really both are pretty much essential.

 

[The Ozzman]

Obituary is what it is: groovy, bare bones, knuckle dragger death metal. I never understood how people can like Obituary or Cianide but not like Jungle Rot because it's the same shit, except Jungle Rot has more groove/thrashy parts. Cianide is doomier though.

 

[CiG]

Cianide is not really comparable to those bands.

Only 1 Death album and 1 Pestilence album? No Atheist? I kind of agree on Obituary overall but I do like some of their other stuff.

I love the first Pestilence album too, but it's not really death metal. I don't give a shit about Death beyond the debut though.

 

[The Ozzman]

Cianide is not really comparable to those bands.

They are comparable in the sense that their stuff isn't that complex like Obituary or Jungle Rot

 

[CiG]

Well I suppose.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Totally under-appreciated album, especially around these parts.

Nah, totally overrated. A lot of people act like it's a tech-death masterpiece, but it's largely basic thrash metal shit or basic Obituary-style shit with a lot of keyboard and interlude gimmicks. The songwriting is much more streamlined than it was on the van Drunen albums, and the riffs are boring, with maybe two exceptions.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Nah, totally overrated. A lot of people act like it's a tech-death masterpiece, but it's largely basic thrash metal shit or basic Obituary-style shit with a lot of keyboard and interlude gimmicks. The songwriting is much more streamlined than it was on the van Drunen albums, and the riffs are boring, with maybe two exceptions.

It never gets any love around here. There's nothing Obituary about it, it's much more melodic and structured and they actually use chords other than basic power chords. Why are the keyboards and interludes gimmicks? To me the keyboards enhance the melodic sections and the interludes are interesting and well done and break up the tracks really well. Interested to know which two riffs you deem worthy also.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Land of Tears and Presence of the Dead are the two songs that I think are roughly up to par with their earlier material (lack of van Drunen not withstanding), I don't have specific riffs noted for that album but refreshing my memory, the stuff going on between the verses on Presence of the Dead is my favorite guitar-wise (e.g. 0:48/2:20/etc). I don't necessarily hate the keyboards, I think they work at times when they're being all pretty and fabulous with the leads, but I think Consuming Impulse managed to do easily as much without them. I mean, even that album has what I would call gimmicks like the faux-choir keys in the bridge of Suspended Animation, but the album's reputation doesn't ride on that because the riffs on the whole are still awesome too.

A song like Twisted Truth sounds kind of like Obituary to me and definitely has assloads of power chords, but admittedly it (along with The Secrecies of Horror) is also more simplistic than the norm. The title track isn't much different from 80s Death either, lots of that basic duggadugga riffing in the verses. Actually, that's a good example where the keyboards are necessary to make up for the lack of riffing because even though the organ bits sound cool, the riff underneath is totally basic shit, just DUN duh-dut duh repeated a bunch of times following a simple progression with the rhythm basically unchanging. This is in contrast to Suspended Animation where the keys back the riff (meaning the riff is still the primary driver of the song), and where the riff is more than basically a single bar, and then when the keys leave they continue to play on the earlier riff instead of abruptly cutting to go back to the main verse riff.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Land of Tears and Presence of the Dead are the two songs that I think are roughly up to par with their earlier material (lack of van Drunen not withstanding), I don't have specific riffs noted for that album but refreshing my memory, the stuff going on between the verses on Presence of the Dead is my favorite guitar-wise (e.g. 0:48/2:20/etc). I don't necessarily hate the keyboards, I think they work at times when they're being all pretty and fabulous with the leads, but I think Consuming Impulse managed to do easily as much without them. I mean, even that album has what I would call gimmicks like the faux-choir keys in the bridge of Suspended Animation, but the album's reputation doesn't ride on that because the riffs on the whole are still awesome too.

I don't think Testimony's reputation rides on the keyboards and I actually prefer Mameli's vocals to Van Drunen. I also don't think it's really tech-death (it's no more tech than Morbid Angel), but it certainly isn't 'mainly basic thrash metal shit' or whatever. There are shitloads of interesting parts and the riffage is no lesser in quality than Consuming Impulse. Most of the in-crowders here will hate it because it's cleaner and has more dynamics, but I think it's the perfect progression from the previous album.

A song like Twisted Truth sounds kind of like Obituary to me and definitely has assloads of power chords, but admittedly it (along with The Secrecies of Horror) is also more simplistic than the norm.

The only similarity to Obituary I can hear is that Mameli gets a bit Tardyish with his vocals here and here but that's it. Apart from the fact that it's also death metal.

The title track isn't much different from 80s Death either, lots of that basic duggadugga riffing in the verses. Actually, that's a good example where the keyboards are necessary to make up for the lack of riffing because even though the organ bits sound cool, the riff underneath is totally basic shit, just DUN duh-dut duh repeated a bunch of times following a simple progression with the rhythm basically unchanging. This is in contrast to Suspended Animation where the keys back the riff (meaning the riff is still the primary driver of the song), and where the riff is more than basically a single bar, and then when the keys leave they continue to play on the earlier riff instead of abruptly cutting to go back to the main verse riff.

The keyboards in Testimony that you mention are actually following the high notes in the riff though..? So because they don't follow the riff note for note they're not as good or something? They are supposed to give that part atmosphere and they accomplish that perfectly.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Regarding Twisted Truth, I don't necessarily mean to say that it's a direct copy of any specific Obituary song, but just take the riffing in the Slowly We Rot title track and then compare it to anything on the first two Pestilence albums, and the former is clearly a closer reference point with that slow, simplistic, post-Celtic Frost kind of riffing, compared to early Pestilence which is much faster and thrashier.

But the keys in Testimony follow like two notes. I'm saying that if you compare the two riffs on their own merits, Suspended Animation wins out by far, being more elaborate, longer, and choppier. The keys over Testimony help that riff, but if it wasn't for the keyboards there, I would be bored to death hearing that riff repeat itself like that.

Even the weakest song on Consuming Impulse (maybe Echoes of Death or Reduced to Ashes for me on a given day) has riffs that stand out over most of Testimony of the Ancients. I think Mameli intentionally dumbed down their songwriting in order for him to be able to do vocals as well as rhythm guitar because there's no comparison. Give me your top riff(s) from Testimony from the Ancients.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Even the weakest song on Consuming Impulse (maybe Echoes of Death or Reduced to Ashes for me on a given day) has riffs that stand out over most of Testimony of the Ancients. I think Mameli intentionally dumbed down their songwriting in order for him to be able to do vocals as well as rhythm guitar because there's no comparison.

I'm not going to argue that Testimony is busier, yeah it's much more reserved and refined than Consuming Impulse but I don't think that's a bad thing. I tend to judge it on its own merits as an album though because it was the first Pestilence I heard and I fucking loved it and didn't hear Consuming Impulse until much later.

Give me your top riff(s) from Testimony from the Ancients.

The intro riff to Prophetic Revelations, the opening of Lost Souls, verse riff in Land Of Tears, the chuggy scale riffs in the verse and bridge of Secrecies of Horror and the verse riff in Presence of the Dead are faves. I actually love the opening riff to Twisted Truth. I also love the simple octave chord riffs like the verse in Lost Souls and Prophetic Revelations.

 

[alex76]

I certainly don't think they dumbed down their songwriting. I think it got more melodic, but I would say it was more intricate as well. I think the lead/rhythm work on Testimony is a highlight of the album. The two Patricks play well off of each other, and it is obvious they gelled quite a bit by this point.

 

[Phylactery]

I like the first three Pestilence, with either of the first 2 being my favourites. Having said that, I don't love Consuming Impulse anywhere near as much as most deathheads seem to. Sure it's a riff fest, but it lacks variation and atmosphere for me. As far as van Drunen's concerned, I'll take the first 2 Asphyx over any Pestilence.

 

[CiG]

I definitely prefer Van Drunen Pestilence to Asphyx, but they both fucking rule in the end. I think I just love the first two Pestilence albums because they have an ugly 80's vibe.

Embrace The Death by Asphyx fucking kills too, never see much love for Theo.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I like the first three Pestilence, with either of the first 2 being my favourites. Having said that, I don't love Consuming Impulse anywhere near as much as most deathheads seem to. Sure it's a riff fest, but it lacks variation and atmosphere for me. As far as van Drunen's concerned, I'll take the first 2 Asphyx over any Pestilence.

I pretty much feel the complete opposite way. Consuming Impulse sounds cold and emotionless to me, which is what I love about it.

I've never been able to get into The Rack the way some people seem to. Something about either the production or guitar tone is off-putting to me and it sounds almost too thin for death metal. Either way, I do love the title track. I haven't listened to Last One on Earth enough to give a fair opinion but I remember preferring it to the debut.

 

[alex76]

Asphyx - Mutilating Process (Single)

Or any of the demos around this time. Oh fuck yeah!