Cravings

[Dead_Lioness]

I have no problems with people having 1 kid, 2 well I can live with that too, despite their being too much of this.

The fact is, there are people out that constantly shout how they "love children" and yet they have no parenting skills, no money, shit job, shit house, live in a shit neighborhood and are in no mental or physical state to have a child...

But this is ok. Because none of those things will contribute to the development of a child, right?

But at the same time, if somebody chooses not to have a kid for whatever reason, they are selfish. I've heard this argument, I know people who get this argument all the time, sometimes from their parents.


And all of this just makes me angry, when you see all this people shouting "I WANNA GET KNOCKED UP" because I'm sure that 60% of them will rush into it and end up with a fucked up relationship and a fucked up child. I'm not even directly accusing Susperia of this, I just really hate seeing this shit.




No, but have you ever noticed how the poor/uneducated generally have more children? Then for example here, there is a thing called "kindergeld", so child money. Which results in poor people (often immigrants ) having tons of children in order to receive this money, and basically ignoring their childs development.
(similar to hobos with dogs in canada.)
There are certain districts in berlin where there isn't a german kid in the school to be found. And have these kids come only when they want to hang out with their friends. The parents don't care... until they get reported and the government threatens to cut off their monthly payments of child support.



edit: WTF!! GRATS LURCH MY NIGGA! Now about the math people might do....

edit2: I suck at ranting on forums, I forgot half of the other points I wanted to make, and now have no time to do them. Meh, you guys get the idea, its a touchy topic for me. (in that whole misanthropic, easily infuriated by human stupidity kind of way)

I actually agree with you on many of the points you did raise and rememebred
I can not understand as well, those who are poor and uncapable to provide
basic things to their kids - having 4 of them...
it kills me.
- and yeah: you see that a lot in Europe: especially with immigrants (you live in Germany now eh? so you know, those who come from the countries that start with T and M)
What is also beyond me, is the LACK of sex ed classes in the US...
look how many teen-moms are popping babies in this country Vs others...
"but jesus said no condoms!"
I fucking hate teen moms.

Oh, and just for the record... . I don;t get the argument about the fact that if I dont want to bring kids into this world - it's considered 'selfish'
In fact: I want to bring kids to this world only for selfish reasons.
(I don't want to die alone, I want someone to take care of me when I'm 90, etc... )
so yeah.

 

[Dead_Lioness]

My favorite line from Seinfeld was when Jerry and his new gal attended Kramer's midget friend's wedding.

Chick; What do you call a doctor who failed med school?
Jerry: I dunno?
Chick: A dentist.

<laughter ensues>

Jerry: I like that.
Chick: Dentists, who needs them?

<short pause>

Chick: Not to mention the blacks and the jews.

hahaha!! I loved that part!

 

[lurch70]

bottom line is ... humans ... ALL of us without exception .... are all selfish pricks. most of the things we do is for our own benefit and well being ...

 

[Dead_Lioness]

^ but of course

 

[Russell]

What? Were you brought up in a ghetto or something? I can't even begin to relate to that comment.

I can to the extent that I'm on board with the intent of the comment. I see it - at a risk of put words into CA's mouth (and apologies if it seems this is what I'm doing) - as a reaction to the general perception of parenthood in society. In this country if you want to adopt you have to be vetted ad infinitum to make sure you're suitable to be a parent, as a teenage Ali once found out Even to take a re-homed pet you are visited by someone from the shelter to check you can provide a suitable environment. Yet it is still ingrained in our perception as common sense that it is a fundamental right to have your own children. It's not, it should be reserved (not practically, but at least in terms of society's accepted norms) for those who have both the maturity and means to be good parents. In the middle class setting of suburban America clearly that's almost universally the case, which is wonderful to hear, but it is not a reality for swathes of children, which is a tragedy. And while this will always be the case, it should still not be universally accepted people can, and are often encouraged to have kids. It's a decision of enormous gravity which has unimaginable impact on many lives, and society often glosses over that entirely, because that is what is expected of you as a human. So if that was the mindset CA was rallying against, I'm with him.

Oh, and I have also come across the "it's selfish not to have children" argument, which has always struck me a singularly fucktarded to the point where it makes me feel intellectually violated. There are selfish and selfless reasons to both have children and not to have children, and I think to say it goes either way is missing the big picture.

 

[Guthrum]

Not from that. I just had a horrible experience after attempting to wipe standing up. I'm not getting into details, but I will say this; I don't know how the fuck you people do that standing.

POOP FINGERS

 

[JayKeeley]

I can to the extent that I'm on board with the intent of the comment. I see it - at a risk of put words into CA's mouth (and apologies if it seems this is what I'm doing) - as a reaction to the general perception of parenthood in society. In this country if you want to adopt you have to be vetted ad infinitum to make sure you're suitable to be a parent, as a teenage Ali once found out Even to take a re-homed pet you are visited by someone from the shelter to check you can provide a suitable environment. Yet it is still ingrained in our perception as common sense that it is a fundamental right to have your own children. It's not, it should be reserved (not practically, but at least in terms of society's accepted norms) for those who have both the maturity and means to be good parents. In the middle class setting of suburban America clearly that's almost universally the case, which is wonderful to hear, but it is not a reality for swathes of children, which is a tragedy. And while this will always be the case, it should still not be universally accepted people can, and are often encouraged to have kids. It's a decision of enormous gravity which has unimaginable impact on many lives, and society often glosses over that entirely, because that is what is expected of you as a human. So if that was the mindset CA was rallying against, I'm with him.

I don't disagree with your points, but in a way you're attempting to predict the future. The long and short of it is that you have NO WAY of knowing who's going to end up being a good parent.

Simply put, poor people can be good parents and rich people can be bad parents. I do accept, however, that the middle and upper class are always going to offer their children better opportunities than the lower classes but again, that doesn't necessarily equate to good parenting.

 

[skeptik]

Lower classes have too many children. I see this myself in my city. Unless this is more of a minority issue than a class issue. I honestly can't say which is the more prevalent factor in my city, since it's predominantly Hispanic and Hispanics are known to have large families to begin with. Of course most of these families in my city are poor too, and those two factors (lots of kids with little money) are not a good combination. What happens is that both parents (if the parents stay together) are constantly working, so there's not much of a parental figure, leaving many to be raised either by grandparents, older siblings, or on the streets, which tends to end up merely in a continuation of the cycle.

 

[Russell]

I don't disagree with your points, but in a way you're attempting to predict the future. The long and short of it is that you have NO WAY of knowing who's going to end up being a good parent.

Simply put, poor people can be good parents and rich people can be bad parents. I do accept, however, that the middle and upper class are always going to offer their children better opportunities than the lower classes but again, that doesn't necessarily equate to good parenting.

Oh totally, hence me saying this should not be implemented in any practical way. Perhaps I should have been clearer on this - there is no way of predicting. Which is why my post says that society's attitudes towards parenthood should change, as - one would hope - that would make the people that aren't suitable to be parents think twice. That was entirely my point, I would like the accepted attitudes to change, so people realise the enormity of parenthood, and that is nothing to do with predicting who will be good parents and who won't.

Further, the only way I see poverty comes into this is if people expect to have children and be supported by the state. That is irresponsible, and is the only reason I even mentioned financial considerations at all. Otherwise it is all about the responsibility and parenting ability.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

So if that was the mindset CA was rallying against, I'm with him.

Have I mentioned I love you man? Are you coming to primordial, I want to buy you a beer*!

There are selfish and selfless reasons to both have children and not to have children, and I think to say it goes either way is missing the big picture.

And I've got both.

That was entirely my point, I would like the accepted attitudes to change, so people realise the enormity of parenthood, and that is nothing to do with predicting who will be good parents and who won't.

this is what I was going for, thank you for having the time to be a bit more eloquent. My problem is with people who treat having children as easy as buying a cheeseburger.

Then in the last few weeks (since beginning of the christmas stress season) there have been about a half dozen cases where single moms (sometimes the husband was in prison), couldn't support their children and killed them, or left them in the apartment without food or water, or left them in the woods.

People take parenthood far too lightly.

Further, the only way I see poverty comes into this is if people expect to have children and be supported by the state. That is irresponsible, and is the only reason I even mentioned financial considerations at all. Otherwise it is all about the responsibility and parenting ability.

Poverty comes into it when you decide to HAVE a child, when you can barely afford to feed yourself. What the fuck are you thinking? You need to be able to have a stable life, afford to feed and clothe yourself and have a house, and a stable job and lifestyle. Then you need to have the money to feed, clothe and ENTERTAIN your child. The bare minimum isn't enough in western society, you need to be able to provide it with the things that "the other kids have".

I'm not advocating entirely that the poor shouldn't have children, my parents were never rich, and through no fault of the own (shafted by friends, fucked over by nature) had even less money as time went on, I had to learn to do without sometimes. But I always had a house, food, clothing and they scrounged enough to get me the basics.

Anyway, I think I'll jsut leave the advocation to Russel, he's much better at it than me.









* have hot gay man sex in a back alley.

 

[JayKeeley]

Oh totally, hence me saying this should not be implemented in any practical way. Perhaps I should have been clearer on this - there is no way of predicting. Which is why my post says that society's attitudes towards parenthood should change, as - one would hope - that would make the people that aren't suitable to be parents think twice. That was entirely my point, I would like the accepted attitudes to change, so people realise the enormity of parenthood, and that is nothing to do with predicting who will be good parents and who won't.

I agree.

Perhaps though, in an ideal world, it can be implemented at some level with an improved society: bringing back family traditions, allowing communities to prosper, improving education for everyone especially at an early age, and of course, removing the religiously-entwined taboo of abortion.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

I wanted to point out that my entire rant stemmed from one thing... people who go "I'm craving children" generally haven't taken the time to sit down, and think about the social, lifestyle, and financial responsibilities that having a child is.

You can't back out, there is no warranty or money back guarantee. You suddenly live for the child. Simple.

 

[Russell]

Have I mentioned I love you man? Are you coming to primordial, I want to buy you a beer*!

Are you coming down to London for the show here? I'm not sure if I'll be at the gig, as I'm supposed to be going to my parents' for birthday celebrations, but if you're around it would be great to meet up for a beer* at some point if we can work it out.

Poverty comes into it when you decide to HAVE a child, when you can barely afford to feed yourself. What the fuck are you thinking? You need to be able to have a stable life, afford to feed and clothe yourself and have a house, and a stable job and lifestyle. Then you need to have the money to feed, clothe and ENTERTAIN your child. The bare minimum isn't enough in western society, you need to be able to provide it with the things that "the other kids have".

Indeed, this is the class of poverty to which I'm referring, and it's usually this type of person that then expects society to pick up the tab for their child's upbringing.

I agree.

Perhaps though, in an ideal world, it can be implemented at some level with an improved society: bringing back family traditions, allowing communities to prosper, improving education for everyone especially at an early age, and of course, removing the religiously-entwined taboo of abortion.

Improving education, and removing religion (let alone the obligatory taboos that go with outdated worldviews) would be a great start, but I think there's more to it than that. What that 'more' is I'm not sure, and I'm going to have to think on it. But, for example, we've had a decent education system here for well over a century. Yet despite this it hasn't stopped a vast number of people remaining morons, irrespective of myriad opportunities they have been offered, because they were lucky enough to be born in a country where such things are possible.

And, thinking further, what also interested me about your post, and my reaction to it, is that the values of which I speak are clearly ingrained in me as well. Thinking about what we've said, that you can't tell which people will be apalling parents, it leads to the acceptance that some children will be born into a very bleak situation, running from unhappiness all the way to neglect and abuse. So surely it could be argued that instead of saying "you can't tell which these children would be, but you have to let everyone have children" (again, that it's a right), it would be far kinder to say "you can't tell, therefore nobody should be able to have children". If this was the case not only would there be no children in this situation, but it would be very hard to argue that the planet wouldn't be a far nicer place with a lot less humans on it. Clearly this would never work in real terms as that would involve forcing opinions, abortions, and a whole host of other unsavoury things onto expectant mothers, and it would deny a huge number of people who would be great parents the opportunity and happiness this would bring.

But it goes to show that our outlook - even mine despite the fact I often find myself arguing against parenthood - is so pro-child that neither of us had even considered this as a hypothetical possibility.

* hot gay man sex outside the underworld wearing a pink tutu

Edit: Oh, and since you're reading this Ali - was it you that recommended Survive Style 5+ to me? I'm watching it as we speak, man it's weird!

 

[lurch70]

finding myself at the doorway to fatherhood in a few months I can chime in a bit with my feelings. I think in my instance it feels like the right time to be a parent. Am I ready financially? somewhat ... am I ready to bust my balls to make the family unit make it? hell yeah. I am the type of person that I can't just push myself to do things solely for myself, I need a reason to hussle and come up with ideas in my business. Doing it only for myself seems fruitless in some ways (although I did do it for a few years).

I really don't think anyone is ever "ready" for a relationship or having kids ... its something that just happens. My fiancee makes me comfortable in making the decision to have a kid with her. Other women have not in the past ... mostly because they were unrelaiable and unstable in their own lives . But their influence on me at the time also made me feel the same way. Things have changed ...

My upbringing was not an easy one either. My dad died when I was 7 and all these things come flooding back now when its time to have my own. Can I take care of it? Will I be a good father? Do I even know what to do or start ... i really have no idea. But I decided that instead of finding reasons to not do it ... and I had many of my own trust me ... it would be easier to experience it for myself. And if I somehow fuck it up down the line ... it seems that kids from struggling families do better in their lives when they grow up than the silver spoon ones.

But I have to agree that a lot of Spanish, Indian, Arabs and other races way outnumber the Whites having kids ... at the clinic where I go with my chick I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE WHITE COUPLE at the times we were there.

and from what I understand Europe has an even bigger issue with this ...

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

Are you coming down to London for the show here? I'm not sure if I'll be at the gig, as I'm supposed to be going to my parents' for birthday celebrations, but if you're around it would be great to meet up for a beer* at some point if we can work it out.

Yeah, I show up on the saturday at 12:30 (according to the bus schedule), and leave again on sunday at 14:30.

If you happen to have a chance in there, it'd me great to meet up for a blowjob.*

And to the parenthood comments, I'll answer again in the morning, rather than when I'm tired.












*beer

 

[Dead_Lioness]

But I have to agree that a lot of Spanish, Indian, Arabs and other races way outnumber the Whites having kids ... at the clinic where I go with my chick I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE WHITE COUPLE at the times we were there.

and from what I understand Europe has an even bigger issue with this ...

True.
Europe has a huge issue with this because of WWII and all the "cheap work forces" from Turkey and Morocco... - now they are over populating Europe: bringing more and more in.

here is an interesting fact...
I used to work with 4 Pakistani men at my recent job (I quit 3 weeks ago, so it's VERY recent) I got really close to one of them, Saleem, and by "close"
I don't mean anything but being really good friends at work, and share gossip/ lunch with each other (gutter minded folks!)
Because we got close, and he "repected me" - he also shared a lot of info with me during all of our shifts together... He felt like he can "share" things due to the fact that I was a foreign myself - I think.
So he told me: that they HAVE to bring all their families to the US and only marry women from Pakistan so they can come to the US and be legal - as part of their culture to not become the minority anymore...
I'm serious, it was like hearing for the first time what I knew all along...
He told me they say it in their musks, and it's like a "thing you do"
if you're from Pakistan...
Crazy eh?
Needless to say, he is also 35 years old, with two wives (one here, one in Pakistan) and 4 girls, AND works for Petco for $11.30 an hour...
He is a really nice guy, but he trashed the US ALL THE TIME, and it really pisses me off.
This country is far from perfect, but the way I see it: you don't like it:
GET THE FUCK OUT.

 

[Dead_Lioness]

Oh: add: he also brought the other 3 pakistani people to work: we needed people so he brought "his people"
Honestly: they were really good workers...

 

[Dead_Lioness]

why did I even tell this story?
Oh yeah, mainly for the fact that he has 4 kids and making $11.30 an hour... (and he lives in Northern VA- which is extremely expenssive here)
With that being said... I'm sure he's a great father... - I just don't get the 'four kids' on a 22K salary...

Lurch: good luck btw! I didn't know you're going to become a dad, and I agree with what you said about: there is never a "perfect timing"
or being '100% ready... '

 

[Tide In Mind Out]

I miss my Paki friend. Last time I saw him was right before Halloween. We went out to dinner, he showered us with alcoholic beverages, and gleamed over the fact that he had sex with a white woman. He always seemed kind of torn with his religion. Sometimes he was all gung-ho and followed all the rules of Islam, other times he was just like "fuck it" and did whatever. I'm guessing he ended all contact with us because he's trying to be a good Muslim again and us whiteys were a bad influence...or something

 

[Reign in Acai]

This is the racial make up of the 27 people on my shift.

White - 3 (Gods among men)
Gook - 1 (good worker, Susperia like personality)
Filipino - 4 (excellent workers)
African - 3 (excellent workers)
Hispanic - 4 (Do the bare minimum)
Negars - 11 (Lazy in general, hide & slide)
Punjab - 1 (Good Worker)