Death Sentences etc.

[Enemy242]

Enemy- I'd really like to tell you to shut the fuck up (and that you're an idiot). The problem is that you'd be offended and want me to explain why everything you've said tonight is retarded. I don't much feel like doing that right now, especially considering the sheer amount of stupidity you have spewed onto this board across threads.

if you disagree with some of the stuff i say that makes sense, but theres no way that you can logically disagree with everything i say. go ahead and say the stuff you disagree with, or are you too lazy to defend a position?

 

[Matt]

Because recreational drug use is an amazing experience which can benefit someone emotionally, spiritually, and intellectually. And for a society to not allow people to fully explore those parts of their minds is simply wrong.

Fine, but how would you combat the addiction that comes with some drugs? Sometimes once is all it takes. And explain to me how getting high will benefit me emotionally, spiritually, and intellectually please. That idea is laughable to me.

To put it briefly without speculating ad nauseam on the details, it could be done roughly the way guns are regulated - with background checks, waiting periods, and so forth. There are plenty of ways to make dangerous drugs more idiot-proof.

That would never work. Is the current gun control system effective?

 

[EerieVon]

Forgive me for my ignorance regarding the actualities of this issue but isn't the argument that maintaining the death penalty actually costs more in the long run than keeping a person in prison for life?

Depends on the method of death, could be as inexpensive as .25 for a bullet or as high as $5000 for the amount of juice it takes for the electric chair, or 12k it takes for the lethal injection cocktail--in any event its still cheaper to end the life that house and feed that person for the rest of their life(I mean in regards to 1st degree or capital murder)

As far as the humane thing--the news today ran a story about a father that threw his 4 kids off a bridge, youngest being 3 months--does this person deserve an ounce of humane compassion--no, the guy is a monster

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Fine, but how would you combat the addiction that comes with some drugs? Sometimes once is all it takes.

By actually educating people on the effects of the drugs. In this day and age most people don't know shit about recreational drugs, and a lot of the time the ones who get addicted to them are idiots whose natural impulse is not to think about the consequences of their actions.

Addiction isn't the end of the world anyway. Plenty of people are addicted to alcohol, and nobody's talking about making that illegal anytime soon.

That would never work. Is the current gun control system effective?

Which gun control system? It differs greatly depending on the country. The U.S. is obviously very liberal on gun control.

 

[supseudonymous]

if you disagree with some of the stuff i say that makes sense, but theres no way that you can logically disagree with everything i say. go ahead and say the stuff you disagree with, or are you too lazy to defend a position?

I'll tackle this in the morning.

 

[Matt]

By actually educating people on the effects of the drugs. In this day and age most people don't know shit about recreational drugs, and a lot of the time the ones who get addicted to them are idiots whose natural impulse is not to think about the consequences of their actions.


Drugs open up parts of your mind that you practically never have access to. The specific experience obviously differs vastly depending on the drug, but some of them can be like being in a waking dream. Check this site out if you're really that curious about what people have experienced on drugs.

So, what you're saying is that it's a necessity for people to experience drugs? And addiction ruins people. It's a major problem. Several members of my family have died to alcohol abuse.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

So, what you're saying is that it's a necessity for people to experience drugs? And addiction ruins people. It's a major problem. Several members of my family have died to alcohol abuse.

It's not a necessity, but I believe the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

Do you think alcohol should be illegal?

 

[Matt]

No. It isn't immediately addictive and, unlike many drugs, isn't extremely harmful to your system.

And if it's a necessity - something the public needs to have - I see no point in changing the law.

 

[skeptik]

I'm honestly not entirely sure how I feel about some hard drugs being legalized, but I feel very strongly about soft drugs being legalized, primarily because federal regulation of the industry will ensure more regulated prices and regulated products that are not contaminated with other substances, and, most importantly, it will (hopefully) severely impair drug trafficking and maybe even put some drug lords out of business.

 

[Matt]

Well, I would agree with you on marijuana and similar things. No hard drugs should be legalized though, for obvious reasons.

 

[cookiecutter]

Holy liberal bias, Batman.

A state executioner is not killing someone out of anger, jealousy, fear, paranoia, or greed. A murderer most likely is. That's the difference. Anyone who thinks it's inherently bad to kill someone is just naive.

Reality has a well known liberal bias.

I think if you don't think taking another human's life is wrong beyond self defense, that is terrible.

I'm honestly not entirely sure how I feel about some hard drugs being legalized, but I feel very strongly about soft drugs being legalized, primarily because federal regulation of the industry will ensure more regulated prices and regulated products that are not contaminated with other substances, and, most importantly, it will (hopefully) severely impair drug trafficking and maybe even put some drug lords out of business.

I would agree with this.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

No. It isn't immediately addictive and, unlike many drugs, isn't extremely harmful to your system.

And if it's a necessity - something the public needs to have - I see no point in changing the law.

Why would alcohol be a necessity? Do you mean because of the people who are addicted to it?

At any rate, I've given my views on drug legalisation. I don't think any of what I've said is unreasonable. I'm pretty sure that gradually legalising all drugs would not bring about any social catastrophies, as most of the uninformed public seems to fear. And I haven't heard any good cases so far for the risks of legalisation outweighing the benefits.

 

[Matt]

Why would alcohol be a necessity? Do you mean because of the people who are addicted to it?

No, I don't think it's a necessity. I don't think I implied that it was. However, banning alcohol would probably drastically improve society (not that I'm for that or anything)

 

[Valerie]

banning alcohol would probably drastically improve society

It's already been done and it didn't work.

 

[supseudonymous]

Changed my mind.​

no one is ever going to legalize all drugs so thats stupid to say since it will never happen and thats stupid anyways. you're telling me that crackheads and junkies that run out of money aren't going to steal or commit crimes? maybe cut down the sentences and have people get help but legalizing it completely would just cause more crime. even though weed is a lot more mild than other drugs i've seen people that even steal to support that habit despite the fact that its not really addicting, it just gives people another reason to commit crime.

oh and for the topic, if it costs the same which i wasn't sure of, i'd rather just have people serve life in prison. having people get killed if they're innocent is wrong and there will always be people that are wrongfully accused.

You punish a criminal for their crime, not the reasoning behind it. Increased theft to support an addict’s habit is irrelevant as an argument against legalization.​

It actually costs more to execute someone-that’s been said before. The rest of that statement is just obvious.

there are people that can control hard drugs yes but its extremely hard considering how insanely addictive they are, the majority can't. but for the record i am for legalizing weed, it would provide more money for the government from taxes and reduce some spending on trying to keep it out but anyways your idea of arresting them for theft makes no sense. they will have already have committed the crime which means that crime rates will go up and not all criminals are caught, why not cut it off at the source?

I don’t think anyone is arguing for the legalization of truly hard drugs. You don’t cut it off at the source because that would be taking something away from everyone to stop a straying, petty few. When you want to kill Saddam you don’t nuke the whole of Iraq.

i'm not going to argue anymore because the thread is going wayyy off topic but the bottom line is that legalizing all drugs would be stupid and would honestly ruin society. you can believe whatever you want however because it will never happen.

How would legalizing drugs effectively ruin society? You seem to believe that a vast quantity of people would quickly become criminals as an indirect result. I doubt there would really be much change. People who are morally against drug use aren’t going change their views because of legalization.

i told myself i wasn't going to derail it anymore but i might as well a little more. acid doesn't have to be addictive, its so powerful that if it was legalized anyone could have access to it and wouldn't treat it with respect and would take like 20 hits and fuck themselves into insanity and could potentially hurt other people. its not the danger of them getting addicted and stealing, its the danger of people going insane or hurting themselves or other people. at least with alcohol by the time you drink enough to actually die you'd have to drink alot of gross tasting shit and would be feeling it, with acid some person could think they're super tough and that its not that intense and just eat a piece of paper the size of a postit note and go crazy an hour later. the only way i could see that being legalized is if they had extremely strict restrictions on it and made people take classes and get a license like one would a drivers license.

Again you’re talking about crushing a mountain when you desire only to topple a mole hill. People are generally much smarter than you’re giving them credit for.

uh how? thats a general concern, just like kids overdrinking some kids could take too much acid and go insane and in turn hurt someone in the process before they are contained.

You don’t lay your axe upon the acid, you lay your axe upon the kid. It’s not the drug’s fault, it’s the kid’s for being fucking stupid and irresponsible.

i'm not too knowledgeable about guns but i'm pretty sure you need to apply and have a waiting period and background check or something like that, plus i think its harder to blow off your hands with a gun than to take too much of a drug, its very easy to overdo it with anything. and i don't think everyone is going to rush to get it, but a lot of people will buy it and not know what they're doing and screw up which is why i'd support the education.

People aren’t going to start taking all kinds of drugs with no idea what their effects are or how to properly use them. People know drugs can be fucking dangerous.​

 

[Matt]

It's already been done and it didn't work.

no shit

 

[zabu of nΩd]

No, I don't think it's a necessity. I don't think I implied that it was. However, banning alcohol would probably drastically improve society (not that I'm for that or anything)

By improving society, you mean making it safer I take it?

Ultimately, once the misinformation is cleared up, the issue just gets down to whether you value a safer society more or a freer one more. I just lean more toward the freedom side of things.

(only for social policies, though - not national defense ones )

 

[Valerie]

no shit

So why the fuck did you say it would work? It would have even less of a chance to work now than it would have back when prohibition was implimented.

 

[Ender Rises]

I think weed and prohibition have already shot the argument for banning alcohol to hell.

 

[Enemy242]

@kil

1.if you just punish them for the crime but not try to stop why they did it, then the damage is already done and someone elses stuff has been stolen and like i said, not all criminals get caught. your way technically makes more sense but since its my opinion, its my belief that instead of punishing the criminal for the crime, you should make it so they won't commit the crime in the first place.
2.i'm also for the legalization of a lot of drugs, i believe like i've said before, that weed should be legal and hallucinogens should be legal with a license or some education of some sort. also i think you underestimate how easy it is for people to fuck up with most drugs and have problems, the general public is really stupid, but the experienced drug users know what they're doing and they're usually the people who get it. if it was open to every one a lot of retards would misuse it, not just a few.
3.if they were legal a lot of kids and normal people who wouldn't have easy access to drugs would then be able to get them, and would misuse them or become addicted which would lead to crime, also that comment was directed at the fact that the person wanted ALL drugs legalized. if only the softer drugs were legalized and regulated a bit i wouldn't think it would affect society much at all.
4. no most people are actually pretty fucking stupid. i don't give them any credit at all, you can believe your way but i believe the opposite.
5. it is the kids fault yes, but the acid being completely legal and easy to get helped him fuck up. like i've said before, when i made those posts i was refuting the fact that all drugs shouldn't be legal and have no restrictions. if some were legal and had restrictions it would be ok.