Death Sentences etc.

[cookiecutter]

Would it kill you to use capital letters and paragraphs?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I was wondering why I had no desire whatsoever to read that post.

 

[supseudonymous]

...

Quit holding beliefs over logic.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Because recreational drug use is an amazing experience which can benefit someone emotionally, spiritually, and intellectually. And for a society to not allow people to fully explore those parts of their minds is simply wrong.

To put it briefly without speculating ad nauseam on the details, it could be done roughly the way guns are regulated - with background checks, waiting periods, and so forth. There areplenty of ways to make dangerous drugs more idiot-proof.

Ultimately, there's always going to be a degree of risk associated with them, but that's no reason to make something illegal.

By actually educating people on the effects of the drugs. In this day and age most people don't know shit about recreational drugs, and a lot of the time the ones who get addicted to them are idiots whose natural impulse is not to think about the consequences of their actions.

Addiction isn't the end of the world anyway. Plenty of people are addicted to alcohol, and nobody's talking about making that illegal anytime soon.

Drugs open up parts of your mind that you practically never have access to. The specific experience obviously differs vastly depending on the drug, but some of them can be like being in a waking dream. Check this site out if you're really that curious about what people have experienced on drugs.

These posts make my stomach turn. How people can dilute themselves into thinking that drugs are the only way to experience ones own mind, I have no idea. It's sad, and pathetic. I've gotten high plenty of times, off and on from when I was about 16 to when I was 20. Then I grew out of it. Luckily I was never tricked into thinking that it was doing anything for me other than making me feel nice for a few hours. Honestly, if you feel that drug use does anything more for you, you have a problem. I have absolutely no respect for habitual drug users. None.

Even worse is their denial that drugs are dangerous. The fact that they fucking kill people apparently isn't enough for them, so they keep living in denial until it either destroys their lives or flat out kills them. And this: "Addiction isn't the end of the world anyway." Fuck that. It blows me away that someone can say this with a straight face. It is the end of an individual.

 

[cookiecutter]

Agreed. I don't really have a problem with people who get high occasionally but the people who are obsessed with it are annoying.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

These posts make my stomach turn. How people can dilute themselves into thinking that drugs are the only way to experience ones own mind, I have no idea. It's sad, and pathetic. I've gotten high plenty of times, off and on from when I was about 16 to when I was 20. Then I grew out of it. Luckily I was never tricked into thinking that it was doing anything for me other than making me feel nice for a few hours. Honestly, if you feel that drug use does anything more for you, you have a problem. I have absolutely no respect for habitual drug users. None.

Even worse is their denial that drugs are dangerous. The fact that they fucking kill people apparently isn't enough for them, so they keep living in denial until it either destroys their lives or flat out kills them. And this: "Addiction isn't the end of the world anyway." Fuck that. It blows me away that someone can say this with a straight face. It is the end of an individual.

I wasn't denying that drugs can kill people. You seem to have selected these issues as a vehicle for a giant rant, and you don't make it very clear whether you're talking about your views on drug use or drug policy.

Do you actually think there are no currently illegal drugs which should be legalised - even the ones like cannabis?

And since when does the possibility of harm make an activity something which should be avoided at all costs? If that were the case, surely rock-climbing and skydiving would be illegal as well.

Oh yeah, and driving. That kills far more people than drugs ever will.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

No, stupid and uneducated people driving (not to mention those under the influence of alcohol or other drugs) kill people.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

No, stupid and uneducated people driving (not to mention those under the influence of alcohol or other drugs) kill people.

How many convenient generalisations am I going to have to pick apart in this debate?

Anyone can fucking die in a car. People die in accidents during bad weather all the time. Any slight error in your handling of a vehicle can get you killed at high enough speeds. You don't have to be an idiot to kill yourself or someone else on the road. It's an inherently dangerous activity.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

I wasn't denying that drugs can kill people, and I never said they were the only way to experience one's mind. You seem to have selected these issues as a vehicle for a giant rant, and you don't make it very clear whether you're talking about your views on drug use or drug policy.

I thought it was perfectly clear that I was talking about my views on drug users and the way they attempt to rationalize their self destructive habits by downplaying its enormous risks and the astronomical amount of damage drugs do to a person (as well as those close to him / her), and by attempting to portray drugs as a means of actually improving ones life or perception, as opposed to a means of escaping their own short comings (which is people use drugs habitually). It wouldn't bother me nearly as much as it does if the ones who say shit like that didn't do it in such an arrogant way (and now I'm not talking about you or anyone specific, but about the attitudes of these drug users, in general). It's one thing to defend ones own drug use, but it's another to take it a step further and insinuate that everyone else would benefit from drug use, or that those who don't are "missing out" or "closed minded". It isn't the weakness of these people that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth, but the apparent pride they take in it.

Do you actually think there are no currently illegal drugs which should be legalised - even the ones like cannabis which are practically benign?

Despite the fact that even something as simple as cannabis is, in fact, capable of doing a huge amount of damage to someones life, I'm well aware that it's very much like alcohol in that most people can use it responsibly, and therefore I would have no problem with it being legalized. Regardless, I'm still not going to use it anymore, and the fact that I ever did is something I'm ashamed of.

And since when does the possibility of harm make an activity something which should be avoided at all costs? If that were the case, surely rock-climbing and skydiving would be illegal as well.

Oh yeah, and driving. That kills far more people than drugs ever will.

Don't even attempt this fucking farce of an argument.

 

[The Ozzman]

True. Weed is just as detrimental as alcohol, yet one is legal and the other is not.

Weed is less detrimental than alcohol. This is coming from a guy that has smoked weed about 5-10 times his entire life.

 

[Hubster]

Let's get back on topic, this thread has exploded since my shift last night (a good thing)

There seems to be a clear devision in opinion, a definite for and against as far as capital punishment is concerned.

I know this has been partially addressed in numerous posts, but I'd like to see more summarised responses...

... For those especially who are against capital punishment, I ask, hypothetically of course: let's say you were a creator of the law. For the first time in (modern) history, you alone have the chance to rewrite the way the law is written. How would you, by replacing/abolishing capital punishment, seek to correctly punish criminals who have committed crimes worthy of a death sentence today, in accordance to your feelings about capital punishment?

In your response, please try to address why you feel your idea is a suitable course of action and a justifiable sentence, feel free to use examples of crimes to clarify. For example, if not lethal injection, what would you suggest is a better sentence/punishment method for a serial killer?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Maximum security prisons, increase human security, special section for people who would be on death row (obviously) with even more ridiculously high tech security (newest innovations in camera, etc. technology) there. Bare bones meals (just enough to be considered ethical treatment for an unethical person so as not to be hypocritical or backwards), no real advantages at all. Clear out people from current prisons for things Nec said including minor drug possession crimes, minor driving/parking/whatever violations.

In addition, I realize the problem of funding and propose a rather large tax on cigarettes/tobacco products, maybe a marginal increase in alcohol tax, and (if we were to make marijuana legal, which we should under certain circumstances such as only private use) heavy taxation of marijuana.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I thought it was perfectly clear that I was talking about my views on drug users and the way they attempt to rationalize their self destructive habits by downplaying its enormous risks and the astronomical amount of damage drugs do to a person (as well as those close to him / her), and by attempting to portray drugs as a means of actually improving ones life or perception, as opposed to a means of escaping their own short comings (which is people use drugs habitually). It wouldn't bother me nearly as much as it does if the ones who say shit like that didn't do it in such an arrogant way (and now I'm not talking about you or anyone specific, but about the attitudes of these drug users, in general). It's one thing to defend ones own drug use, but it's another to take it a step further and insinuate that everyone else would benefit from drug use, or that those who don't are "missing out" or "closed minded". It isn't the weakness of these people that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth, but the apparent pride they take in it.

Okay, that makes a little more sense than the last post. And I can see where you're coming from. It's not my place to say drugs are valuable for everyone, and I really didn't mean to suggest that if I did. I just think that if someone's interested in them, they should not be forbidden from them by law simply because they "mess up your mind" or have risks associated with them. I see it as a personal choice which, in most cases, does not have any effect on anyone but the one using the drug.

Despite the fact that even something as simple as cannabis is, in fact, capable of doing a huge amount of damage to someones life, I'm well aware that it's very much like alcohol in that most people can use it responsibly, and therefore I would have no problem with it being legalized. Regardless, I'm still not going to use it anymore, and the fact that I ever did is something I'm ashamed of.

I can't see myself ever being ashamed for using a drug recreationally (though some medications can be pretty shameful, i.e. antidepressants). I'm curious to know why you were ashamed of using cannabis.

Don't even attempt this fucking farce of an argument.

How about actually countering it instead of childishly dismissing it?

 

[The Ozzman]

lol at people thinking weed is worse than alcohol.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It's not even close to as bad.

 

[The Ozzman]

It's not even close to as bad.

.

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Okay, that makes a little more sense than the last post. And I can see where you're coming from. It's not my place to say drugs are valuable for everyone, and I really didn't mean to suggest that if I did. I just think that if someone's interested in them, they should not be forbidden from them by law simply because they "mess up your mind" or have risks associated with them. I see it as a personal choice which, in most cases, does not have any effect on anyone but the one using the drug.

Ok. I don't agree, but I respect your position.

I can't see myself ever being ashamed for using a drug recreationally (though some medications can be pretty shameful, i.e. antidepressants). I'm curious to know why you were ashamed of using cannabis.

I see it as being juvenile and a character flaw. The lying and sneaking around because of it didn't help, either. I hated- absolutely hated- lying to my parents, and it still bothers me.

How about actually countering it instead of childishly dismissing it?

It doesn't really deserve a counter. I liken it to those slippery slope arguments against gay marriage ("oh well where does it end huh people marrying toasters? Not in my America!"). The risks of hard drugs so greatly outweigh the benefits (if there are any) that people should not be permitted to use them, just like we're not permitted to climb up the sides of buildings or drive around in vehicles that don't meet safety standards. Everything has risks. Obviously. It's inevitable. However most things have some sort of substantial benefit, or are somehow necessary. Sorry, but taking LSD is not beneficial or necessary in any way.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

You aren't really in the position to judge what is and/or isn't beneficial to people, tbh (though I agree with most of your position).

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

How so?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Because (psychedelic) recreational drug use is (typically) a subjective experience which may or may not have positive effects on the user.