Defining Metal Genres Thread

[Baroque]

Generally it's the slower ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm7qQlWmMEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqduxsQ8WVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd215wjpNh8

1st one still has the beat at 1:50 and especially at 2:20.

2nd one Slayer still has a slower version of the beat during the verse. That two step bass snare bass snare. That's a mid-paced thrash song not pure thrash in my opinion.

3rd one Coroner I see your point. This different drum beat makes it sound pretty experimental though, not pure thrash, I would say this is tech thrash.

I think pure thrash, not mid-paced, not tech, still needs that beat. At least from the evidence so far.

 

[Baroque]

Testament - Practice What You Preach - The whole album (from memory)

Most of this album seems to use the slowed-down two step form as well as HB's Slayer example. Maybe this new drum beat typifies what we can define as mid-paced thrash? I think Megadeth uses this in their slower songs too. This Testament album clearly has a different feel from the other thrash songs posted earlier. It's slower, more technical.

[EDIT] I found the beat. 16:44 on the album. 1:42 in the song Time is Coming. Comes back multiple times. Also the song Blessed in Contempt, all over that intro. At the end of The Ballad.

 

[Baroque]

In any case it seems that the snare sets the pace of the song in thrash. Even in the slower songs, the bass-snare play feels like the main point of reference for the rhythm.

This is why I said earlier that there are thrash influences in later Death. You can hear that beat and the guitar riffs (repeated palm muting w/ some specific repeated motions) scattered throughout the title track (Symbolic):

 

[Baroque]

Can anyone define death metal?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, but it's far from predominant in that Celtic Frost song (and album on a whole).

It's more than just slowed-down in the Slayer case; if every song that alternates bass snare bass snare counts, anything from Manowar to Suffocation could fit.

 

[Baroque]

Yeah, but it's far from predominant in that Celtic Frost song (and album on a whole).

It's more than just slowed-down in the Slayer case; if every song that alternates bass snare bass snare counts, anything from Manowar to Suffocation could fit.

Celtic Frost isn't pure thrash though according to Enc Metallum.

I agree it's not alternating perfectly for most of the Slayer song. But I think my point stands about that song not being pure thrash too. It's definitely thrash imo, but slow/mid-paced. These type of songs are pretty common among the big 4, it's the type of song I feel you might have said is not thrash in the other thread. I hear the guitar riffs as slower thrash riffs though, so i don't know what to call it. Not full speed thrash though.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh, I definitely agree that Mandatory Suicide is 100% thrash. And Symbolic is a good example of the massive thrash presence in 90s Death.

 

[Draehl]

I'm most interested in how/where those who say BM derivatives aren't BM should be classified. Blackened folk? Atmospheric Black? Blackgaze? Etc. If its not BM there is certainly some unifying commonality there. They clearly aren't thrash/death/power/etc. Under the umbrella of "unpolished dark prog"? That's the closest I can come...

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I think we might need to get rid of the term "pure thrash". IMO fast, mid-pace, technical, etc bands such as Slayer, Dark Angel, Coroner and Testament are all pure thrash.

I wouldn't just use it to describe vanilla thrash. I'd only disclude bands that clearly cross the sub-genre boundaries into the blackened thrash, death/thrash, etc territories like Assaulter, Deceased, Absu, Destroyer 666 and such.

 

[Eligos]

So wouldn't Coroner's influences from Rush and other progressive rock bands disqualify them as "pure thrash"?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So wouldn't Coroner's influences from Rush and other progressive rock bands disqualify them as "pure thrash"?

Influences alone, not really. There's nothing on any Coroner song that would make me think "Oh, this sounds more like Rush than thrash" (unlike Watchtower with songs like Tyrants in Distress). The influence has to manifest itself in riffs and songs outside the scope of the genre to qualify imo. That being said, the earliest stuff (Death Cult/RIP) and later stuff (especially Grin) aren't particularly "pure" regardless.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

So wouldn't Coroner's influences from Rush and other progressive rock bands disqualify them as "pure thrash"?

Do you hear any Rush when listening to Coroner?

 

[Eligos]

Absolutely, especially on Mental Vortex.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Where?

 

[Westsiyeed]

Definitely think Coroner aren't pure thrash; they've got other stuff going on in their music, with tempo shifts and Tommy Baron's intricate and original riffing, there are progressive influences that make them different from the pack (which may be why they didn't become as popular as other bands at the time back in the late 80's).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, they take in progressive influences, but there aren't really any songs or even sections up to Mental Vortex where you can pick something out and say "Yeah, that's a <non-metal genre x> part". The closest would be some of the Prong influences they were taking in that other thrash bands were doing more or less simultaneously, which probably works its way in from post-hardcore music, but that only became significant by the point of Grin and the S/T. There were many thrash bands that were going towards a technical/progressive approach to metal-writing in the 80s.

That's in contrast to bands like Dream Theater with songs that are basically progressive rock/neo-prog but with metallic distortion or the occasional simple chugging riff (especially the first two albums with stuff like Status Seeker which could be a straight-up 80s Rush leftover).

 

[Westsiyeed]

Which is why I would call them a progressive/technical thrash band.

Does that mean they are "pure 100% thrash" per TB? I guess it depends on your definition of pure thrash, but I would say no, as there are distinct differences between a band like Coroner (especially later albums), and albums like Vio-Lence's Eternal Nightmare or Kill em All or KIMB.

I think Dream Theater are another kettle of fish that are much further removed from thrash.

 

[Eligos]

Where?

Start at 2:10.

 

[Westsiyeed]

Coming back to the OP's original question - well the thrash one - I think there is a distinct trait which is the chugging riff as HB mentioned, which is used is most abundance in the thrash genre.

But if Kafkax wants to know thrash, just listen to the accepted bands that created and championed the genre in the early days, which are very well known.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

OK, you got me there, but that's still just one brief riff among many others with clear metal reference points.

EDIT: re Eligos and Semtex Revolution