Do your parents like SymX? (to all the teens)
- Thread starter sands of the seas
- Start date
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Canto, again, shut the fuck up. This isn't your personal board either, so don't get pissy when people discuss things.
Razor, the barlow to chuck comparison isn't really valid in my opinion because they set out to do two completely different things, both of which i have a great respect for. I'm not going to compare Victor Wooten's bass abilities to Yngwie Malmsteen's guitar abilities because while the main goal is the same (to shred faces), the outcome and execution are very different. Or hell, even comparing any jazz virtuoso with any metal guitar virtuoso... some of the techniques used are the same, many are different and the audible outcome is vastly different to the point where comparisons are kind of pointless.
Inhuman noise? Fair enough as an opinion, but again, i take issue with you dismissing it as a completely illegitimate genre of music. Read Chuck's words, listen to his music, and you'll discover that there's nothing about it that is half-assed. The vocals add a very necessary venom to his words which I don't think could be replicated with a clean vocalist, nor should it be. Other bands (God Dethroned and Amon Amarth are two that come immediately to mind) are more straightforward death metal, but the vocals are entirely comprehensible.
The only reason i even keep going on with this debate is it's so infuriating that people act like children when discussing stuff they don't like. I don't like a lot of hip hop or rap, but i have heard plenty of underground, legit shit that is very intelligent and well thought out. Do i like it? No, but just because i think it's terrible doesn't mean I will demonize it and dismiss it. Again Razor, you grew up in a time when most "grown ups" didn't understand why people distorted their guitars and said the exact same things you say, so you're the first person who should understand what i'm saying and the last person to take such a stance on it.
Razor, the barlow to chuck comparison isn't really valid in my opinion because they set out to do two completely different things, both of which i have a great respect for. I'm not going to compare Victor Wooten's bass abilities to Yngwie Malmsteen's guitar abilities because while the main goal is the same (to shred faces), the outcome and execution are very different. Or hell, even comparing any jazz virtuoso with any metal guitar virtuoso... some of the techniques used are the same, many are different and the audible outcome is vastly different to the point where comparisons are kind of pointless.
Inhuman noise? Fair enough as an opinion, but again, i take issue with you dismissing it as a completely illegitimate genre of music. Read Chuck's words, listen to his music, and you'll discover that there's nothing about it that is half-assed. The vocals add a very necessary venom to his words which I don't think could be replicated with a clean vocalist, nor should it be. Other bands (God Dethroned and Amon Amarth are two that come immediately to mind) are more straightforward death metal, but the vocals are entirely comprehensible.
The only reason i even keep going on with this debate is it's so infuriating that people act like children when discussing stuff they don't like. I don't like a lot of hip hop or rap, but i have heard plenty of underground, legit shit that is very intelligent and well thought out. Do i like it? No, but just because i think it's terrible doesn't mean I will demonize it and dismiss it. Again Razor, you grew up in a time when most "grown ups" didn't understand why people distorted their guitars and said the exact same things you say, so you're the first person who should understand what i'm saying and the last person to take such a stance on it.
I agree with Canto, ".Tom" seems to have some infatuation going with cross pollinating forums, always a No No on any forum Ive been to, that and in general is a bit of a twit and disregarding the abuse he has taken for it elsewhere around UM just refuses to "get a fucking clue!"
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Zach - I wasnt actually comparing those two vocalists, I just thought Barlow was a good choice due to how intense he is and yet sings with amazing conviction plus I know he's high on your list so though you might consider that perspective. I mean it seems to me alot of Iced Earth could have been death growled but I think it would have been far inferior. Symphony X could be death growled and I would have never listened to them. I simply dont think these growlers (and SO many of them) are bringing anything to the table that makes them remotely close to the great vocalists of metal.
I think your comparision of the jolt the older generation recieved in hearing of Robert Plant (I-IV) or Steve Marriot or Getty Lee to what I hear in death growlers is further removed than you want to impress on me. Thats why I have stressed the sameness of the voice and monotone... less than musical characteristics. It usually seems to be a slow delivery as well lacking much interesting phrase timing. This is why I see it as a pointless vocal approach... summary 1. everyones doing it 2. all sound about the same 3. monotone 4. phrasing 5. its a rather strange sound to be desireing 24/7/52
Another good point might be when they did critize alot of RnR and rock for all the "ya,ya, yas", when you think back and listen to it you just know they were right, there has been alot of shameless stuff over the years. How many "oh babys", ect. ? Well maybe someday people will look back and think, "boy that sure was alot of "rrrrr" "orrrrr" "rarrrrr" but I could be wrong....
Guitar may have been distorted but they did use scale tones across many octaves, bends, a wide variety of expressive timing, 16ths, .8ths, 8ths, 1/4's, 1/2's, full, long sustains, they also did clean up and used a variety of tones so did the vocalists so I dont see it the same at all. I am also the rare example of my age group that listens to any metal at all, though I have admitted many times to be limited, prefering to think of it as being spoiled by the best and not interested in every band simply because they play metal.
(why I say) Inhuman noise - Is not the point of it all to sound like the grim reaper (reaper of "death"), voice of the devil, voice of the dead, or some otherworld cartoon villian ? Thus inhuman noise
I love thrash and death metal, clear up till the "vocals" start so it has less to do with genres than it does the vocals. I dont totally buy the idea of those of you that say, its fitting and what sounds best I just know some of the great vocalist could slay with that stuff too.
But no sense in beating it any further, it is what it is, thanks Ken, Zach. Proul and others for the decent discussion and Canto for all the samples showing our side of the subject. Thanks Russell Allen for being a top shelf clean and dirty vocalist and why this old fart can listen to their version of metal.
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Zach - I wasnt actually comparing those two vocalists, I just thought Barlow was a good choice due to how intense he is and yet sings with amazing conviction plus I know he's high on your list so though you might consider that perspective. I mean it seems to me alot of Iced Earth could have been death growled but I think it would have been far inferior. Symphony X could be death growled and I would have never listened to them. I simply dont think these growlers (and SO many of them) are bringing anything to the table that makes them remotely close to the great vocalists of metal.
I think your comparision of the jolt the older generation recieved in hearing of Robert Plant (I-IV) or Steve Marriot or Getty Lee to what I hear in death growlers is further removed than you want to impress on me. Thats why I have stressed the sameness of the voice and monotone... less than musical characteristics. It usually seems to be a slow delivery as well lacking much interesting phrase timing. This is why I see it as a pointless vocal approach... summary 1. everyones doing it 2. all sound about the same 3. monotone 4. phrasing 5. its a rather strange sound to be desireing 24/7/52
Another good point might be when they did critize alot of RnR and rock for all the "ya,ya, yas", when you think back and listen to it you just know they were right, there has been alot of shameless stuff over the years. How many "oh babys", ect. ? Well maybe someday people will look back and think, "boy that sure was alot of "rrrrr" "orrrrr" "rarrrrr" but I could be wrong....
Guitar may have been distorted but they did use scale tones across many octaves, bends, a wide variety of expressive timing, 16ths, .8ths, 8ths, 1/4's, 1/2's, full, long sustains, they also did clean up and used a variety of tones so did the vocalists so I dont see it the same at all. I am also the rare example of my age group that listens to any metal at all, though I have admitted many times to be limited, prefering to think of it as being spoiled by the best and not interested in every band simply because they play metal.
(why I say) Inhuman noise - Is not the point of it all to sound like the grim reaper (reaper of "death"), voice of the devil, voice of the dead, or some otherworld cartoon villian ? Thus inhuman noise
I love thrash and death metal, clear up till the "vocals" start so it has less to do with genres than it does the vocals. I dont totally buy the idea of those of you that say, its fitting and what sounds best I just know some of the great vocalist could slay with that stuff too.
But no sense in beating it any further, it is what it is, thanks Ken, Zach. Proul and others for the decent discussion and Canto for all the samples showing our side of the subject. Thanks Russell Allen for being a top shelf clean and dirty vocalist and why this old fart can listen to their version of metal.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Yes.. Like I said, each has a time and place for use. That's where I was going with the dm vox. Have you heard of Virgin Black? The guy's professionally trained in Opera.
CantoX
Member
Yeah, thanks man. You made a lot of valid points and I tried to also validate my points with some examples. In the end I'm not very fond of the cookie stuff but I do like 3 or 4 songs that have them. In the end I just find clean vocals so much more appealing and interesting.
I'll always look to the example of Slayer. It's funny in a way how most death metal bands are influenced by Slayer and Slayer makes fun of the way they sing lol.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
CantoX
Member
Me too.
Watch some interviews of death metal band members and you'll often find they bring up Slayer. I definitely know Cannibal Corpse has cited Slayer as an influence.
It even says it on the death metal wikipeda page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal
And it's sourced twice!
Maybe not the pioneer Death Metal bands, but that's why I said "most" instead of "all."
Sorry CantoX But I don't see where Slayer were an influence on Death Metal to the point you were implying or those "sources" for that matter...
funny, I always though "death" metal evolved from thrash... not that I care I listen to neither except for Mustaine
CantoX
Member
LOL!! Yeah definitely agree. With some of their recent albums it's been sounding a lot like metalcore.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
\m/Øyvind\m/
Member
- Jul 14, 2010
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My Dad thinks it´s ok.
Remind him of Yngwie Malmsteen, which he like.
But many if the songs are just going to fast for him
My mom dont like metal
Remind him of Yngwie Malmsteen, which he like.
But many if the songs are just going to fast for him
My mom dont like metal
Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
I did earlier. Somewhere. "To Hell And Back" is a good song and "Bloodlust" kicks ass.
Badbird
Never banned
god I wish they would get this fucking kid off this site, this "badbird" is tom, has had mulitple names before, has a slew of people that wanted him banned, a total retard
this is a troll post .Tom knows DAMN well my position on music
this is a troll post .Tom knows DAMN well my position on music
Badbird
Never banned
People opinion can change on music. My does quite bit depends. There thrash that sounds like Megadeth as well. Check the more progressive bands of that genre. Read the best quote I have under my post.
Badbird
Never banned
Originally Posted by Kenneth R.
No one mentioned Venom yet?
Not a fan of the band. Very overrated. Now what about Burzum? Fucking great band.
No one mentioned Venom yet?
Not a fan of the band. Very overrated. Now what about Burzum? Fucking great band.
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