Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
I'd be curious as to what the average over/under age is for people who like cookie vox. Razor is like 20 years my senior and I pretty much can't stand it. So what are the variables???:Spin:
Do your parents like SymX? (to all the teens)
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@ Razoredge: Well, civil for the most part lol
and to the above, I do believe everyone is entitled to their own Synopsis. I don't see why its so hard to grasp that some people don't like the growls, and some people do. And often those people don't like regular singing. I know many Death/Black Metal fans who think Symphony X and King Diamond are gay because they sound like girls. Now thats a H O R R I B L E synopsis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Razor is a grown man, and has given it a chance. He tried, and he didn't like it. That's more than I can say for many!
There is clearly less distinction (hope I spelled that right) in growls than there is in actual vox. I've already said I enjoy them when used properly, but its rare you find someone who sounds unique. But I know people who can listen to every band out there in the death metal/black metal genre with ease. I personally cannot!
@Kenn:
@Prismatic: I agree as well, but it does bother me that Death/Black metal seems to be the 'stereotype' of metal for the older folks. It depends on what generation you grow up in, what people are listening to, and when! Music has evolved in many ways over the decades, and for certain generations screaming and constant double bass is not there idea of music. Me personally I got into death/black/thrash during some hard teen years. My angsty years if you will, so it fit in fine for me to be listening to angry music in a very angry time of my life. Do I still listen to those bands? Of course, are they all angry? No I didn't mean to stereotype either, but by ear, it does sound angry. There is nothing happy sounding about double bass and guitars tuned as low as they can go. Or each band trying to be more 'brutal' than the last.
and to the above, I do believe everyone is entitled to their own Synopsis. I don't see why its so hard to grasp that some people don't like the growls, and some people do. And often those people don't like regular singing. I know many Death/Black Metal fans who think Symphony X and King Diamond are gay because they sound like girls. Now thats a H O R R I B L E synopsis. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Razor is a grown man, and has given it a chance. He tried, and he didn't like it. That's more than I can say for many!
There is clearly less distinction (hope I spelled that right) in growls than there is in actual vox. I've already said I enjoy them when used properly, but its rare you find someone who sounds unique. But I know people who can listen to every band out there in the death metal/black metal genre with ease. I personally cannot!
@Kenn:
I agree very much so, and you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I do personally believe that pitches, and expression are very limited in that genre of music! How much expression can one display while yelling/screaming/growling. So I choose the avenue that shows more diverse expression, bands like Symphony X for example! Very fitting since it is there forum. But to each their own!
@Prismatic: I agree as well, but it does bother me that Death/Black metal seems to be the 'stereotype' of metal for the older folks. It depends on what generation you grow up in, what people are listening to, and when! Music has evolved in many ways over the decades, and for certain generations screaming and constant double bass is not there idea of music. Me personally I got into death/black/thrash during some hard teen years. My angsty years if you will, so it fit in fine for me to be listening to angry music in a very angry time of my life. Do I still listen to those bands? Of course, are they all angry? No I didn't mean to stereotype either, but by ear, it does sound angry. There is nothing happy sounding about double bass and guitars tuned as low as they can go. Or each band trying to be more 'brutal' than the last.
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
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I'd also like to point out how derivative and unemotional clean vocals can become. It's not like we need another Dickinson/LaBrie/Tate/etc. clone wobbling "LOST IN DA ENDLESS YEARS OF GRAY PASTS / I CONTEMPLATE MY FUTURE SOUL" in an exaggerated operatic tenor. Just listen to Ayreon - perfect example of how you can take all the supposedly finest clean vocalists on the planet and make song after song that is laughably shit. Why are unclean vocals so funny, again?
If you want to stereotype all unclean vocals as being like Attack Attack, here is the analogue - stereotyping all clean vocals as this monstrosity (and indeed, so many are).
If you want to stereotype all unclean vocals as being like Attack Attack, here is the analogue - stereotyping all clean vocals as this monstrosity (and indeed, so many are).
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Ken dont many singers use both "head" and "chest" in that technical aspect of singing ? In fact correct me if Im wrong but isnt singing from the chest part of vocal training? Such as for opera singers at the extreme of training but many types of vocalists take vocal training. I think the head stuff might be that nazzly tone used commonly in pop. If anything I would say that guteral business most bypasses the vocal chords and could explain why they all sound so much alike, like two people with totally different sounding speach voices will sound identical when they are spewing up thier diner.
If there is pitch changes in death growls I cant hear them unless your talking about going from that low note to the higher schreik. You will even find in singers that when they begin stressing thier voice at higher end or get really gruff at lower end also tend to go mono tone, I suspect there is a physical explaination for this.
If there is pitch changes in death growls I cant hear them unless your talking about going from that low note to the higher schreik. You will even find in singers that when they begin stressing thier voice at higher end or get really gruff at lower end also tend to go mono tone, I suspect there is a physical explaination for this.
Post - regardless how one feels about Ayreon or various lyric lines I would like to point out that the idea that "clean" and "unclean" vocals equal "singing" or "death growls" is a misnomer. Many vocalists do not sing "clean" tho there are sample where they show they can. So when people refer to singing as "clean" it is something I find most amusing as it quickly brings to question their musical perception and understanding, or that they want to sugar coat death growls as simply being the only "unclean" method of vocalizing lyrics.
A good example of this might be Akerfeldt, I have only heard him sing "clean" or do "death growls" but I have never heard him sing gruff or raspy or any of what ever terms one might want to put on harsher methods of singing. Maybe he has but as much as I like their music I cant bare it long enough to sort through it all.
A good example of this might be Akerfeldt, I have only heard him sing "clean" or do "death growls" but I have never heard him sing gruff or raspy or any of what ever terms one might want to put on harsher methods of singing. Maybe he has but as much as I like their music I cant bare it long enough to sort through it all.
Badbird
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This reminds me of this thread http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132481&highlight=Simpler+Question
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
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Really, even if the lyrics are dumb, that's not the point of contention here. I just think it makes it all the funnier. My point was that so many clean vocalists in metal sing without any passion or innovation that it seems completely strange to me that anyone would single out unclean vocals as somehow more prone to being bad. I don't see it.
As far as clean v. unclean, that's just a matter of definition. All I meant by unclean vocals is anything that is so raspy, etc. that it totally overtakes the way you sing and how it comes out...it's not just "cookie monster vocals," there are black metal vocals, etc. too (which can also be good). Rough singing, like Russell Allen's on Paradise Lost, for instance, I would still consider clean. Okay, so the way he sings for songs like Domination is different from the lighter stuff, but I'm sure people can imagine the line I'm talking about...which is also weird to me, that even though it's more of a gradient than an absolute cutoff, people will be quick to defend Russell Allen's rougher singing, but somehow anything just an iota rougher than that is unacceptable?
Well, while reading these posts, I think we can all agree that we all hate emocore it sucks, it's just 16-20 year olds whining/screaming about how everything and everyone hates them, and how they hate everyone and everything. (P.S. All the singers sound exactly the same)
(Different Topic: ) Death Metal I am not a fan of, however I do not hate it, or fans of it, what I do hate though, is how someone with no common knowledge of music compares emocore and death metal to each other, they are two very different genres.
(Different Topic: ) Death Metal I am not a fan of, however I do not hate it, or fans of it, what I do hate though, is how someone with no common knowledge of music compares emocore and death metal to each other, they are two very different genres.
Postulate
Have a nice day! :)
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Honestly, I've never really seen the problem with heated discussions. It's people talking about what they like...no one is killing anyone else.
@Razoredge: As much of a fan of Opeth I am, you are correct. Its either Clean, or Growl. But its impressive he can do both considering!
@Postulate: From your earlier post, of course 'clean' singing can become unemotional. There are just as many duds in actual singing than in the Death/black metal growls. But the point I was trying to make, is that if you take the best of both genres, followed by the musical composition from the rest of the band. Its much more difficult to find something that is emotionally diverse in death/black metal! I've never found a case where a Death/Black Metal band can top the emotional diversity of some of the other bands out there. Though I am a huge fan of Agolloch, but thats not just the vocals. Its mostly the music and atmosphere they create which is a very rare area for bands of its genre!
@Postulate: From your earlier post, of course 'clean' singing can become unemotional. There are just as many duds in actual singing than in the Death/black metal growls. But the point I was trying to make, is that if you take the best of both genres, followed by the musical composition from the rest of the band. Its much more difficult to find something that is emotionally diverse in death/black metal! I've never found a case where a Death/Black Metal band can top the emotional diversity of some of the other bands out there. Though I am a huge fan of Agolloch, but thats not just the vocals. Its mostly the music and atmosphere they create which is a very rare area for bands of its genre!
Badbird
Never banned
Well I like it when people like AceD and Heart Colleter come in on discussions like that.
Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
Let me repeat again that the collective brainpower on the Ultimate Metal forum is light years greater than that of joblo.com
Badbird
Never banned
Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
Badbird
Never banned
The Arcade Fire
White Stripes are good.
Need to check more Tv On The Radio but I like to.
Radiohead is great.
White Stripes are good.
Need to check more Tv On The Radio but I like to.
Radiohead is great.
Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
I fucking loathe Arcade Fire. I blame them for much of the vomitous indie pop tripe that circulates around these days.
White Stripes are for primarily girls and hipsters.
Radiohead is basically just commercial prog.
Kings Of Leon, never got into 'em.
The people on those boards wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the ass; save a few(like Bubba).
White Stripes are for primarily girls and hipsters.
Radiohead is basically just commercial prog.
Kings Of Leon, never got into 'em.
The people on those boards wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the ass; save a few(like Bubba).
Badbird
Never banned
Badbird
Never banned
Look at The Heart Collector. He makes great posts like this one
Prismatic Sphere
We Carouse
chocula loves the cookie monster too much. And badbird likes alternative metal and metalcore.
I honestly do not know why you revere these people when the people on here's tastes are phenomenally better.
Badbird
Never banned
Badbird does not love metalcore at all. He hates it in fact. choucula I don't care if he love death metal because it's great music.
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