Do your parents like SymX? (to all the teens)

[Ryan M.]

I think there are a few good growlers out there... and I'm not one of them (Even though I'd be considered acceptable) You see a lot of it is mediocre and talentless... BUT... there are some good ones out there! When Nevermore does it I like it!

 

[Kenneth R.]

 

[DoomsdayZach]

I think he is trying to get at that it takes talent and practice to hit those high heavy metal screams or to sing in a high way without sounding like crap. The thing about growling is that sounding like crap is the point which allows two things, 1. anyone can do it if they tried 2. you don't have to sound good because sounding bad is the point. I could do a decent cookie monster growl and so can a couple of my friends (we've tried it together once lol don't ask) and we all nailed it with no practice whatsoever. But I highly doubt that me or my friends could hit an A5 note and retain it for more than a second and have it sound good. Those kind of singing techniques take years of practice to master.

Do you really think you could do growls and keep up the intensity for a 30 minute set? I assure you, it takes all the technique and talent that it takes a real singer to do it. One is no more difficult to master than the other.

There's a difference between having a good technique and having talent. These growlers have great technique but are easily emulated and lack emotion. Instead of feeling the hatred/pain/sadness/fear through the emotion in the singing, you are told to hate/feel pain/etc. by being growled and cookie'd.

Lack emotion? A quick one that comes to mind is Death's "Moment of Clarity" from their Sound of Perseverence album. The end especially, Chuck is full of emotion when he screams/growls/rasps "You turn to ask... Why? Oh God! Why?". It's fucking incredibly emotional, and well worth a listen. That's far from the only example, but it's the immediate one that I always turn to when people ignorantly claim that death metal is emotionless.

 

[CantoX]

I listened to that song that you mentioned. Sounds like screemo stuff.... really thin cookie voice.

So if you like growling/death metal vocals, then you'll defend this music? They have talent?



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMf4NivM6TA&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TH5ibABP4U&feature=related[/ame]

They're doing the death metal cookie monster vocals. I can discern between good singing and bad singing... but I cannot discern between good growl vocals and bad growl vocals. It sounds very much the same to me except the differences of the thin and heavy growling.

 

[Frosties]

Good example - because no one who sings clean does shitty music. I'm sure you're a big fan of American Idol, Cristina Aguilera and Mariah Carey, since they can hit just about any note that the best metal singers out there can, and apparently, if you can sing, that means your music is good.

I think he is trying to get at that it takes talent and practice to hit those high heavy metal screams or to sing in a high way without sounding like crap. The thing about growling is that sounding like crap is the point which allows two things, 1. anyone can do it if they tried 2. you don't have to sound good because sounding bad is the point. I could do a decent cookie monster growl and so can a couple of my friends (we've tried it together once lol don't ask) and we all nailed it with no practice whatsoever. But I highly doubt that me or my friends could hit an A5 note and retain it for more than a second and have it sound good. Those kind of singing techniques take years of practice to master.

It's kind of sort of like Michael Angelo Batio vs Steve Vai. We all know michael angelo is super fast and insane and that his ability to play that fast should be respected. I respect his ability to play fast. But then you ask yourself, yeah he plays really fast.. but how many good songs does he have? And then you go on youtube and notice 8 year olds can play as fast as michael angelo lol. With a little practice you can achieve the kinda things that angelo does. But what about vai? That dude practiced his ass off for years and years and years and his playing style is pretty good.. and you, as well as a bunch of your friends, can name a handful of memorable songs by Vai.

There's a difference between having a good technique and having talent. These growlers have great technique but are easily emulated and lack emotion. Instead of feeling the hatred/pain/sadness/fear through the emotion in the singing, you are told to hate/feel pain/etc. by being growled and cookie'd.

You just negated yourself there. On onehand, you praise techincality (reaching that a5 note), yet on the other, you say that it is emotionless (Michael Angelo) Good work there.

 

[CantoX]

Technicality does not equal emotion. Yes, I believe that's what I said and it makes sense.

 

[Postulate]

I can discern between good singing and bad singing... but I cannot discern between good growl vocals and bad growl vocals.

Well, that'd be your fault, not the musicians'.

 

[Liquid Tension]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY7VoBWZJ8o

Cool video thanks for posting it...

 

[razoredge]

Razor, i think the issue is not the vocalists that you like but rather the fact that your attitude fucking sucks dude. You grew up when heavy metal was coming around, you grew up with parents not getting what all the racket was about and so on and so forth, and I'm guessing you probably had people telling you that your idols were garbage, yet you knew better. The fact that you are doing the same thing because you've heard some marginally talented growlers and have dismissed it as garbage is pretty weak. There are talented growlers, it does take work, effort, and energy to sound unique and better than others, and it's a difficult thing to do. It will wreck your voice just as much as belting out high-ass screams.

Your right Zach, my attitude about it does suck from the other side of the fence. I have really been talking about creative talent I dont hear any creativity to it. Im not talking about hard, difficult, practice effort, vocal chord ruining stuff, nor even range such as the amazing wailers. Think how bad those amazing wailers would have sucked if all they did was sing on that hard to hit high note every song. Sure we could say do you realize how hard it is to sing that note all night long but at least to me that is not what caught my ear about the greater vocalists, it was how they phrased and expressed their lyrics, their unique timbre and the melodies they came up with.

Im sure for people into it there are those that growl better than others but when I hear it in hundreds of samples I've tried, its all the same application. Heres my version of what I think the grim reaper would sound like and Im going to do it through this entire album... and the next... and the next. Who knows maybe someday these guys will get good enough to be able to make that sound and use various scale tones, but what for ?

 

[noble savage]

Technicality does not equal emotion. Yes, I believe that's what I said and it makes sense.

I'm calling bullshit on this.

I bet if I played something you deemed "too technical" and stuck you in an MRI machine, your brain would light up like a Christmas tree. Disgust and anger towards a certain type of music is still an emotion - just not a pleasant one.

I'm only making this point because one of the very few things that pisses me off is when people say "There's no emotion in this music." Unless you happen to be a sociopath of some sort, all music elicits a response. Once you realize that, saying that technicality does not equal emotion becomes a moot point.

Oh, and my parents don't like Symphony X.

 

[proulxski]

Many of you bring up valid points, but no not all music elicits a response from everyone.(accept maybe anger and wanting to smash your stereo after listening to them) Everyone has differint taste and enjoys a differnt feel of emotion. I don't care about how technical or simplistic it is. As long as it doesn't bore me to tears, and songs that display emotion that touches me as a listener/buyer/downloader, than it warrants a spot in my library. Even of the melodic death/black bands I enjoy, its rare I find an entire album I enjoy. Like Razor stated, its somewhat samey. But they are not the only genre to go down that road, power metal for what its worth is often, very samey!

Think of music as a book, there are millions of them. Some good, some bad. From a literature aspect, but no matter how good or bad the literature is, there will always be people who love it, or just are not in to it. Because emotion washes over everyone differently.

I do believe it requires a differint skill to growl/scream. Its a talent, but not a unique one. Like actual singers, very few do it properly, and very few sound unique, but its pleasant when you find some that do. But based on my likes, and feelings, there is not much to be desired from it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Cool video thanks for posting it...

I especially like the "hear my... CRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY" section. The guitarist's reaction is the same as mine to that chick's voice.

 

[JesterIF]

^

And the same as mine :O

I didn't know this band, I'm pretty sure I'll dig this thanks for posting

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Proulxski is pretty right on for the most part. Stuff with heavy growls like Bloodbath's "Resurrection through Carnage" album used to be my album to go to sleep to because it made me happy and calm in a way. Good times there.

I also accept that people don't like death metal or even that they can't understand the appeal, i just think the elitist attitude of "our music is better than your music" shit's counterproductive to spreading the word of metal.

And canto, stop being a smartass. You know iwrestledabearonce and attack attack aren't metal. At all.

 

[Lyre's Harmony]

There's a difference between having a good technique and having talent. These growlers have great technique but are easily emulated and lack emotion. Instead of feeling the hatred/pain/sadness/fear through the emotion in the singing, you are told to hate/feel pain/etc. by being growled and cookie'd.

this is blasphemy. have you ever heard any doom metal sir? any daylight dies? agalloch? these are some of the most emotion filled music you will find, something that you just cant touch with clean vocals sometimes.

o and im not a teen, but my mom will blast the accolade and head bob

 

[proulxski]

^ I agree with you on Agalloch, don't know the other band. But I freaking love Agalloch.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I fucking <3 Agalloch.

The Hawthorne Passage. Not Unlike The Waves. Summerisle Reprise.

<3

 

[proulxski]

One of my faves Kenn! Good to see we arn't all at each others necks lol!

 

[razoredge]

these are some of the most emotion filled music you will find, something that you just cant touch with clean vocals sometimes.

Now is this because "death" growls are part of human emotions and historically common means of communicating all these emotion filled moments in life ?
----------------------------------------------------
Zach, metal promotes itself on all fronts both positive and negative, I dont think anything viewed as elitism could interfer with that. People are either going to like it or not, pick and choose around in it and thats about it.
----------------------------------------------------

lots of laughs at that dance/rap vid with the little kids add lib growling, amazing creative talent, who would have thought of that, rap and growling both ultra creative, far reaching talents combined together...

 

[CantoX]

I also accept that people don't like death metal or....
And canto, stop being a smartass. You know iwrestledabearonce and attack attack aren't metal. At all.

Agree and lol, okay sorry. Yeah that stuff is HORRIBLE I'm just trying to make a point that's all. I won't lie. I don't like the death growling stuff too much but I do like 2 Decapitated songs and 1 or 2 Cannibal Corpse songs.

ever heard any doom metal sir? any daylight dies? agalloch?

Most I've heard sounds dark and eerie. I'll check those bands out.

lots of laughs at that dance/rap vid with the little kids add lib growling, amazing creative talent, who would have thought of that, rap and growling both ultra creative, far reaching talents combined together...

Lol yeah. Did you see that attack attack one? It sounds really bad and is so poser but they're combining weird musical arts to make one and it doesn't really work for me but a lot of people find it appealing.