Forget death/doom, ND is now death/emo!
- Thread starter xSamhainx
- Start date
Oh yes Paul, it's so damn noble of you to actually leave up a negative post about your band in a forum which is solely populated by your friends, relatives, and most steadfast fans. Wow, I cant believe the resolve it took to do that. I'm a friggen chewtoy here, haha!
You need to leave this up alright, as a glaring example as how pretentiously melodramatic and self-righteous ND and it's metal community has become!
As for me being some "coward" because I'm speaking online, hey that's what message boards are for, people. I was trying to inject a little humor here and there in my post. Though Im sure the rest of ND would clobber and dogpile me, I think I might be able to take Paul now, knowing his condition. That's neither here nor there, sorry, I aint going to hop on a plane and fly across the USA and come knock on his door or go listen to him groan for a couple hours at a show to say "Hey Paul, that Pale Haunt Departure is one of the worst, simple, and most deceptive cd's Ive ever been tricked into buying. Get some new material will, ya??".
As far as Paul's lyrics being "for himself", Ive heard that one before, it's a common refrain of those who have run out of material. That being the case, and if this truly is a "therapy session" for Paul, then you should probably put a warning sticker on the goddamn cd stating-
"WARNING: VOCALIST'S THERAPY SESSION WITHIN! "THE PALE HAUNT DEPARTURE" IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REST OF THIS CD!"
Because that's what I feel like, I got ripped off here. If ND's so fucking proud of broadcasting Paul's moaning and groaning therapy, then why the hell is both the title track of the cd, the artwork, and the first and only video available from it for a track which has nothing to do with it. It's bullshit, and total misrepresentation of this absolutely repetitive, redundant, just uncreative as hell cd. It's pretty much the only creative track, thats the reason why. Though I will give some props to Autumn Reflection, that's pretty good too actually, even though thematically similar to the groanfest. But hey thanks for warning me in advance Paul, that your next cd is going to be nothing more than your last, cookie monster croaking away about what dirt he is over and over to his therapist. I'll make sure I spread the word here, so noone else gets sucked into your simplistic vortex of groaning redundancy. We get better things to spend our money on, thats for sure.
That said, I'm not against tragedy and sorrow. "To Welcome the Fade" is loaded with it, yet it's a superbly done cd. You want tear-jerker? Try "Torn", or "Broken", both darkly beautiful and powerful odes, no song on Pale Haunt even scratches the surface of either of those well-written, musically creative, and just totally powerful songs. Key words here: well-written, musically creative. And yes, I will admit, it was also before the "Im dirt" dead horse had been beaten into the dirt for the hundredth time. Even "Not the Strong", which I thought was a bit pretentious at first, blows the living shit out of anything on Pale Haunt, but the title track of course. TWTF is well-written and performed depressive doomy metal. Pale haunt is simple, straightforward, repetitive cookie monster emo metal, a flat out therapy session on Sesame Street.
Im sure Arline et al, who know Paul personally and see his struggles cry their eyes out over every tune, I understand that. Im sure that he could crank out a cd which is nothing but him saying "This sucks, Im dirt" over and over again for hours, with a single chord strumming in the background, and theyd love it and cry for weeks over it. Not me ok, I need a little bit more, like good writing and powerful music behind it, little things like that. I gotta know what's coming such as with TWTF, not some deceptive pretension of scarecrows and death metal, only to run across a repetitive personal groanfest.
"St Anger" is loaded with sorrow and feeling and all that too, am I supposed to "have a heart" and give that shitty cd a thumbs-up because it's a reflection of their pain? No thanks, and I would bet that most of you dont either.
You need to leave this up alright, as a glaring example as how pretentiously melodramatic and self-righteous ND and it's metal community has become!
As for me being some "coward" because I'm speaking online, hey that's what message boards are for, people. I was trying to inject a little humor here and there in my post. Though Im sure the rest of ND would clobber and dogpile me, I think I might be able to take Paul now, knowing his condition. That's neither here nor there, sorry, I aint going to hop on a plane and fly across the USA and come knock on his door or go listen to him groan for a couple hours at a show to say "Hey Paul, that Pale Haunt Departure is one of the worst, simple, and most deceptive cd's Ive ever been tricked into buying. Get some new material will, ya??".
As far as Paul's lyrics being "for himself", Ive heard that one before, it's a common refrain of those who have run out of material. That being the case, and if this truly is a "therapy session" for Paul, then you should probably put a warning sticker on the goddamn cd stating-
"WARNING: VOCALIST'S THERAPY SESSION WITHIN! "THE PALE HAUNT DEPARTURE" IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REST OF THIS CD!"
Because that's what I feel like, I got ripped off here. If ND's so fucking proud of broadcasting Paul's moaning and groaning therapy, then why the hell is both the title track of the cd, the artwork, and the first and only video available from it for a track which has nothing to do with it. It's bullshit, and total misrepresentation of this absolutely repetitive, redundant, just uncreative as hell cd. It's pretty much the only creative track, thats the reason why. Though I will give some props to Autumn Reflection, that's pretty good too actually, even though thematically similar to the groanfest. But hey thanks for warning me in advance Paul, that your next cd is going to be nothing more than your last, cookie monster croaking away about what dirt he is over and over to his therapist. I'll make sure I spread the word here, so noone else gets sucked into your simplistic vortex of groaning redundancy. We get better things to spend our money on, thats for sure.
That said, I'm not against tragedy and sorrow. "To Welcome the Fade" is loaded with it, yet it's a superbly done cd. You want tear-jerker? Try "Torn", or "Broken", both darkly beautiful and powerful odes, no song on Pale Haunt even scratches the surface of either of those well-written, musically creative, and just totally powerful songs. Key words here: well-written, musically creative. And yes, I will admit, it was also before the "Im dirt" dead horse had been beaten into the dirt for the hundredth time. Even "Not the Strong", which I thought was a bit pretentious at first, blows the living shit out of anything on Pale Haunt, but the title track of course. TWTF is well-written and performed depressive doomy metal. Pale haunt is simple, straightforward, repetitive cookie monster emo metal, a flat out therapy session on Sesame Street.
Im sure Arline et al, who know Paul personally and see his struggles cry their eyes out over every tune, I understand that. Im sure that he could crank out a cd which is nothing but him saying "This sucks, Im dirt" over and over again for hours, with a single chord strumming in the background, and theyd love it and cry for weeks over it. Not me ok, I need a little bit more, like good writing and powerful music behind it, little things like that. I gotta know what's coming such as with TWTF, not some deceptive pretension of scarecrows and death metal, only to run across a repetitive personal groanfest.
"St Anger" is loaded with sorrow and feeling and all that too, am I supposed to "have a heart" and give that shitty cd a thumbs-up because it's a reflection of their pain? No thanks, and I would bet that most of you dont either.
BloodSword
Member
What the FUCK!! There are all kinds of loser ingrates that creep out of the internet wilderness. When will this shit stop. I am fucking disgusted with these "pussy" keyboard warriors. What band do you play in (whatever the fuck your name is) Dick Delicious and the Tasty Testicles. I TELL YOU THIS; no matter where your at, a loser in mommy's basement or a mansion on a hill, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to attack verbally Paul's family. If you don't like the music fine, but let his family alone asshole. BTW, Paul I haven't heard the term "Jag off" in a while, I thought it was only a "Pittsburgh" slang. Back to the "coward in the chair" I assure you, I will rip off your head and shit down your neck, and then crush you with my Viking hammer. I'm sorry if my language has offended anyone(except dickhead) but, losers like this truly irritate me. Novembers Doom, counting time till the next record.
Sadguru
In my dream...
We are human beings, with emotions, feelings and senses, not some recluses, enlightened sages living in tibetan mountains. That's the way it is. Either you learn to live that reality or you deny it calling it "melodramatic", "emo" or whatever pejorative term you can think of.xSamhainx said:
That may be true for you, but certainly not for me. As far as I'm concerned, message boards is a way for me to share my enthousiasm, my passions and thoughts within a community.
That's not the point. Paul and Larry already said they're more than open to negative creticism, as long as its done in respectable manner. I myself showed my initial disappointment towards "The Pale Haunt Departure" on this message board, and I can attest that the guys were more than open to my words.
Again, your opinion is subjective. Proof: the title track is my least favorite on the album.
Torn heh. This, with the rest of your post, is entirely subjective.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
You just continue to dig yourself a deeper hole here. Be my guest.
First of all, the lyrics and artwork concept for the song "The Pale Haunt Departure" very much are personal and in line with the rest of Paul's lyrics on that album. He's discussed this in interviews and elsewhere on this forum, anyone interested can go look it up.
We don't have to "warn" anyone about what our songs are about or sound like. Anyone could go and look into what the cd sounds like and is about conceptually these days, with the advent of the internet and being able to dowload lyrics, samples of songs, or even just steal the whole fucking album really. Hell all you have to do is come and ask us if you want to know more about lyrics and concept. But, you heard one song and liked it and then wound up disliking the rest of the cd. Many other people out there might feel as you do as well. And many other people have also come forward and said they love the album and lyrics. You're wrong? They're wrong? We're wrong? No, it's called personal preference and taste. You don't like our music anymore, oh well. There are other people who love it. It's really simple as that man. "Oh fucking well." It might annoy you or bum you out but the bottom line is that it doesn't give you a right to directly behave like an insulting asshole to us. We simply don't give a fuck that you hate our cd. We're not trying to convert you into thinking differently than you do now about Paul's lyrics or our cds. We....don't....care. All I care about is that you're talking some serious shit to us, that in person would be crossing a serious line. I don't care if it's because you don't like our lyrics, our cds, my shirt, the color of my guitar, etc. People here are calling you a coward because you openly admitted that you were saying what you were saying because it was safe and anonymous to do so. "...but I have to speak my mind because.. well i just do,and I can thanks to the glory of the internet. Paul could most likely totally beat my ass, so it's nice I can safely critique him from here behind my computer desk with a nice drink in my hand..." Your words there. Just as you're harshly judging us for our words, you are being judged for yours.
Funny that people point the finger and call us pretentious, when they're the ones who seek us out at our forum just to get on their own soapbox and whine and complain and toss insults around. I don't think anyone besides yourself is coming off as melodramatic here. Everyone is very basically and simply saying that you're being an insulting asshole. Which you are. And you know damn well that you are. That's the whole point of this I believe. This isn't just the diatribe of a disappointed fan or music lover. This is someone getting off on the power of the internet to be able to be very insulting without fear of comeuppance, simply because he bought a cd that he wound up hating and feels "ripped off". The statement of "I'll make sure I spread the word here, so noone else gets sucked into your simplistic vortex of groaning redundancy. We get better things to spend our money on, thats for sure" really says it all about you. It's not merely that you are personally disappointed and disgusted with our music now, it's that whole incessant need to be the "right" one, to want to know so badly that there's others out there who will jump on your bandwagon. And please, be my guest, go spread the word as you wish. People can either make up their own minds for themselves or not, I don't care. I'm more than happy to know that you'll be spending your money elsewhere than on another ND cd. You may think that bothers us (and I think you wish it to), but it really doesn't.
You have the right to hate our stuff or our band in general. You have no automatic right to be attacking and insulting. At least if it were in person I could give you credit for having the balls to do so, though it'd still be wrong of you.
My reponse and offense to what you've said is not because you don't like us or our music. It's because of the shit you're talking. You came here to our forum not to just tell us you didn't like us or our lyrics, you came here purposefully to be a shit-talking insulting asshole to us overall. You think we're pussies or pretentious because we take offense to that? I call it being grown ups. You really should learn to be one.
But take comfort, there's still plenty of other immature shit-talkers looking to draw attention to themselves in the metal scene, you still have plenty of company.
First of all, the lyrics and artwork concept for the song "The Pale Haunt Departure" very much are personal and in line with the rest of Paul's lyrics on that album. He's discussed this in interviews and elsewhere on this forum, anyone interested can go look it up.
We don't have to "warn" anyone about what our songs are about or sound like. Anyone could go and look into what the cd sounds like and is about conceptually these days, with the advent of the internet and being able to dowload lyrics, samples of songs, or even just steal the whole fucking album really. Hell all you have to do is come and ask us if you want to know more about lyrics and concept. But, you heard one song and liked it and then wound up disliking the rest of the cd. Many other people out there might feel as you do as well. And many other people have also come forward and said they love the album and lyrics. You're wrong? They're wrong? We're wrong? No, it's called personal preference and taste. You don't like our music anymore, oh well. There are other people who love it. It's really simple as that man. "Oh fucking well." It might annoy you or bum you out but the bottom line is that it doesn't give you a right to directly behave like an insulting asshole to us. We simply don't give a fuck that you hate our cd. We're not trying to convert you into thinking differently than you do now about Paul's lyrics or our cds. We....don't....care. All I care about is that you're talking some serious shit to us, that in person would be crossing a serious line. I don't care if it's because you don't like our lyrics, our cds, my shirt, the color of my guitar, etc. People here are calling you a coward because you openly admitted that you were saying what you were saying because it was safe and anonymous to do so. "...but I have to speak my mind because.. well i just do,and I can thanks to the glory of the internet. Paul could most likely totally beat my ass, so it's nice I can safely critique him from here behind my computer desk with a nice drink in my hand..." Your words there. Just as you're harshly judging us for our words, you are being judged for yours.
Funny that people point the finger and call us pretentious, when they're the ones who seek us out at our forum just to get on their own soapbox and whine and complain and toss insults around. I don't think anyone besides yourself is coming off as melodramatic here. Everyone is very basically and simply saying that you're being an insulting asshole. Which you are. And you know damn well that you are. That's the whole point of this I believe. This isn't just the diatribe of a disappointed fan or music lover. This is someone getting off on the power of the internet to be able to be very insulting without fear of comeuppance, simply because he bought a cd that he wound up hating and feels "ripped off". The statement of "I'll make sure I spread the word here, so noone else gets sucked into your simplistic vortex of groaning redundancy. We get better things to spend our money on, thats for sure" really says it all about you. It's not merely that you are personally disappointed and disgusted with our music now, it's that whole incessant need to be the "right" one, to want to know so badly that there's others out there who will jump on your bandwagon. And please, be my guest, go spread the word as you wish. People can either make up their own minds for themselves or not, I don't care. I'm more than happy to know that you'll be spending your money elsewhere than on another ND cd. You may think that bothers us (and I think you wish it to), but it really doesn't.
You have the right to hate our stuff or our band in general. You have no automatic right to be attacking and insulting. At least if it were in person I could give you credit for having the balls to do so, though it'd still be wrong of you.
My reponse and offense to what you've said is not because you don't like us or our music. It's because of the shit you're talking. You came here to our forum not to just tell us you didn't like us or our lyrics, you came here purposefully to be a shit-talking insulting asshole to us overall. You think we're pussies or pretentious because we take offense to that? I call it being grown ups. You really should learn to be one.
But take comfort, there's still plenty of other immature shit-talkers looking to draw attention to themselves in the metal scene, you still have plenty of company.
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
Sadguru: Your point is quite valid, and is basically one point I was trying to make as well. This guy's whole diatribe is subjective. But that's a problem I run into over and over again....the people who think that because they feel so strongly about something regarding their own personal taste, that it gives them license to be insulting and condescending about it, and they just can't fathom for a moment that other people won't have the same feelings or impression from the music/lyrics as he does. As you said, you had issues with our last cd and discussed it. That's totally fine. Considering how many changes we've made to the music, art, etc., with each new cd, we fully expect there to be people who will not appreciate some things we do, because it just doesn't click with their personal tastes. But the music and lyrics we write, click with OUR personal tastes, and logically that's what matters to us first and foremost. Paul and I despise the song "Torn", as we've stated before. Many people have said they love it. That's cool, no worries. It however doesn't change our personal feelings towards that song or continuing to write material such as that. Just as people saying they hate TPHD cd is fine as well, but will not impact upon us as to what we feel towards that cd or the music we write from here on out.
And, for the record, I actually kind of disagree with Paul on one thing. I don't think the lyrics and concept on this new upcoming cd bears as much resemblance to the lyrics on TWTF and TPHD as he says it does. They're still personal and not back to the typical "a black path be thine, come with me my dark love and forever be mine" MDB/doom stuff like was on our earlier albums. But I think the new cd is quite different in alot of ways from TPHD, musically, lyrically, etc.
And, for the record, I actually kind of disagree with Paul on one thing. I don't think the lyrics and concept on this new upcoming cd bears as much resemblance to the lyrics on TWTF and TPHD as he says it does. They're still personal and not back to the typical "a black path be thine, come with me my dark love and forever be mine" MDB/doom stuff like was on our earlier albums. But I think the new cd is quite different in alot of ways from TPHD, musically, lyrically, etc.
Novembers Paul
Member
xSamhainx said:
So learning a person has medical issues... It makes your balls swell, and adds bravery to your cowardice, that allows you to make a statement like that? I can promise you one thing... Any attempt would be a costly mistake. Your judgement of what I am capable of is grossly underestimated. The next time I'm in San Diego, you're welcome to try.
xSamhainx said:
Whatever I can do to help, you've been so cordial with me...
So coming to the forum, acting like a jagoff, personally attacking me, and now hinting at a physical altercation all stems from your dislike of our last CD, my lyrics, and the loss of $12, because you feel you were misled and ripped off?
And you call me "Emo?"
Okay, so looks like that fag doesn't like the cd.
Wow, what a problem. Look at the zines:"xSamhainx complaints about the Pale Haunt". Metal disaster.
Now grow up boy and learn to respect other points of view. There are old fans who don't like it and new fans who love it.
It's life, the band is not trying to satisfy all their fans.
Anyway I have a curiosity, when Anathema released the two last albums you opened a thread in their forum to express how shitty are the compositions of Danny ????
Have you read the lyrics of A Natural Disaster ???
Wow, what a problem. Look at the zines:"xSamhainx complaints about the Pale Haunt". Metal disaster.
Now grow up boy and learn to respect other points of view. There are old fans who don't like it and new fans who love it.
It's life, the band is not trying to satisfy all their fans.
Anyway I have a curiosity, when Anathema released the two last albums you opened a thread in their forum to express how shitty are the compositions of Danny ????
Have you read the lyrics of A Natural Disaster ???
Again Paul, it was an attempt at injecting some type of humor in my post, that if indeed you guys went nuts on someone such as myself if I ranted and raved at you personally about PHD. Just the image of ND all totally destroying me at once, or you and me squaring off seems strangely funny to me, probably because yes, it's pretty ridiculous.
Anathema.. oh god.. at least MDB had the smarts to go back to what they do best, even if it isnt as good as their early stuff. Did I rant and rave on Anathema's boards? Nope, they were spared the rants and raves but I sorta came into Anathema after their more dramatic stylistic changes, and I also wasnt optimistic about Anathema and looking forward to the future like I was with ND. I used them as an example, because while Crestfallen/Pentecost and Serenades were totally miserable, they varied up their themes while not dramatically, it was enough to keep one from feeling they were listening to one long song. November's Doom was and is far different from Anathema for me personally anyway, because I was very optimistic about the future of what I saw as a very good, unique American (finally!) death/doom type outfit to call our own. Awesome, diverse male and some slight female vocals that just crept up on you and either caressed your soul or slammed you in the face with a brick, solid rolling basslines and double-bass thunder, and lyrics that just clicked right and flowed perfectly.
It just doesnt seem like that anymore, it's like it's been diverted to this other route of, for lack of a better term, mediocrity. Pale Haunt Departure just kicked my ass totally when I first heard it, but the full cd turned out just completely bland and repetitive in my opinion, and yes, I just felt that the first track set a course that it didnt follow and was very disappointing. November's Doom doesnt sound unique anymore, besides the incessent din of "im dirt". Yeah it's subjective, sure I'm bellyaching about it, and I know that I could have been more restrained and nicer about it, but hey that's the breaks. Like I said before, this is metal and metal is a fucking asshole at times, that's part of what makes it so fun!
Then goddammit, NvmbrsDoom5 had to go and say that the new album was different.. dammit! This is an outrage! I dont care! I wont buy it!
I have my principles!
Anathema.. oh god.. at least MDB had the smarts to go back to what they do best, even if it isnt as good as their early stuff. Did I rant and rave on Anathema's boards? Nope, they were spared the rants and raves but I sorta came into Anathema after their more dramatic stylistic changes, and I also wasnt optimistic about Anathema and looking forward to the future like I was with ND. I used them as an example, because while Crestfallen/Pentecost and Serenades were totally miserable, they varied up their themes while not dramatically, it was enough to keep one from feeling they were listening to one long song. November's Doom was and is far different from Anathema for me personally anyway, because I was very optimistic about the future of what I saw as a very good, unique American (finally!) death/doom type outfit to call our own. Awesome, diverse male and some slight female vocals that just crept up on you and either caressed your soul or slammed you in the face with a brick, solid rolling basslines and double-bass thunder, and lyrics that just clicked right and flowed perfectly.
It just doesnt seem like that anymore, it's like it's been diverted to this other route of, for lack of a better term, mediocrity. Pale Haunt Departure just kicked my ass totally when I first heard it, but the full cd turned out just completely bland and repetitive in my opinion, and yes, I just felt that the first track set a course that it didnt follow and was very disappointing. November's Doom doesnt sound unique anymore, besides the incessent din of "im dirt". Yeah it's subjective, sure I'm bellyaching about it, and I know that I could have been more restrained and nicer about it, but hey that's the breaks. Like I said before, this is metal and metal is a fucking asshole at times, that's part of what makes it so fun!
Then goddammit, NvmbrsDoom5 had to go and say that the new album was different.. dammit! This is an outrage! I dont care! I wont buy it!
I have my principles!
Novembers Paul
Member
NvmbrsDoom5 said:
It is different. There are certainly moments of familear content, but there was conscience effort to write differently. Possibly not enough to please our friend here, but enough to be noticable. We've let some friends hear the new CD already, and the early response has been good.
Sadguru
In my dream...
Novembers Paul
Member
xSamhainx said:
This should have been your first post, and maybe we could have had an actual discussion instead of the bullshit it escalated to.
yeah, well I do feel just a smidgeon, just a tad of something akin to guilt, since I enjoyed "To Welcome the Fade" so thoroughly a couple times once again today. I rarely listen to a cd just once, I generally loop it a couple times to really absorb it fully, and wow, it truly is a work of art.
November's Doom is one of my favorite bands and I have no problem saying that, despite any personal differences or bullshit.
November's Doom is one of my favorite bands and I have no problem saying that, despite any personal differences or bullshit.
Steve
New Metal Member
Your name begins and ends with the letter "x"
You are complaining about how you don't like how a band changed because you liked the fake, superficial lyics better
You are complaining about how you don't like how a band changed because you liked the fake, superficial lyics better
And you're calling people emo why?
UltimateMetal is not a place for juvenille idiocy and elitist whining like yours. If you want to publicly berate someone over something meaningful to them, and insult people in irritating rambling messages, then you belong on MySpace with all the other 15 year olds.
Well, I had to use other letters to get the name I wanted, I figured x would work. I dont see what that has to do with anything, Einstein.
It's a forum of discussion, and I have a tendency to say what's on my mind. If you dont like that, Mr Post Count, that's too damn bad.
It's a forum of discussion, and I have a tendency to say what's on my mind. If you dont like that, Mr Post Count, that's too damn bad.
Novembers Paul
Member
xSamhainx said:
We've always invited not just fans, but anyone who wants to discuss music with us, to come to the forum, and give opinions, ask questions, and comment. I know you teased about how noble it is to keep such a thread, but seriously, how many other bands do you know that would have left a thread up like this, and give it this much attention? We've never hide from negativity. We love the debate, when it's at least respectable.
I can even understand you having issues with Pale Haunt. I can understand your anger with the lyrical content, because at no time did I ever expect to please everyone, and regardless, if you believe me or not, I'm not out of ideas. I wrote these CD's for myself, and without the band, and the ability for my outlet, I don't know how I would have coped with different aspects of my life. I never set out to write "gold" as you put it, just a CD I was proud of. It is why, I admit, I am not able to step away from it 100%, but I made a very conscience effort on the newly recorded disc (The Novella Reservoir) to step away from that more. It is still very personal, and in a lot of ways I still indeed use many of the same phrases you liked to point out. Certain words and descriptions have become part of my writing style at the moment, much the same way the guitarists use specific chords, but it's not nearly as self destructive as Pale Haunt or Fade was.
If you have questions about lyrics or songs, all you needed to do was ask. We're more then happy to discuss it all here. Just because we release CD's, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to approach us the way you did. I myself have been displeased with many of my favorite bands in the past, but still retained my respect for the direction they decided to go. I may not have agreed with it, or even liked it, but I wouldn't log into their forum, and attack them the way you did me.
You spoke your mind, and I responded. I can't make you like the new material, and I'll never try to do that. Just do yourself a favor, and consider the worth of a post like this the next time you disagree with a bands direction. There are better ways to get a point across, then a flame war.
Part of it is this Paul: My initial post here was a half-jest type of poke at a bunch of guys I saw as rough, chicago-hewn hessians who could perhaps take some ribbing and some rancorous criticism. Like I said, a friend who you grabs your ass by the collar and says "hey idiot, youre fucked up!" in a bar or whatever.
Secondly, I had no clue that this was some sort of ultra-emotional, real life tragedy gripping both your family and friends. Nor did I know that simply mentioning them would be construed as an "attack", especially when it's a central aspect of what the lyrics I'm bitching about. Little kids babbling and such, I'm thinking "what in the hell is going on with Novembers Doom here?"
Bands caterwauling about this or that are a dime a dozen, and I'd assume theyre mostly fake. I dont read metal magazines, I rarely dont hunt down info, I simply listen to the music. I feel no need to research anything but the lyrics, and since I understand pretty much all your lyrics, I never even needed to do that. But then it's attack attack attack insult, some nice verbal snowballing goes on, and the rest is history. I'm not one for backing down, so off to the races it goes. God damn, I never wanted to be ranting and raving at one of my favorite bands like this, but the responses mixed with my prednisone riled me up. Yeah, it was letting off some steam too, so many times these bigger bands let you down and you can never tell them what you feel, getting the ear of a band I percieved as letting me down within the hour was something else.
For what it's worth, which I realize aint shit at this point, I apologize.
Oh shit, now you got me "realizing" as well. argh!
Secondly, I had no clue that this was some sort of ultra-emotional, real life tragedy gripping both your family and friends. Nor did I know that simply mentioning them would be construed as an "attack", especially when it's a central aspect of what the lyrics I'm bitching about. Little kids babbling and such, I'm thinking "what in the hell is going on with Novembers Doom here?"
Bands caterwauling about this or that are a dime a dozen, and I'd assume theyre mostly fake. I dont read metal magazines, I rarely dont hunt down info, I simply listen to the music. I feel no need to research anything but the lyrics, and since I understand pretty much all your lyrics, I never even needed to do that. But then it's attack attack attack insult, some nice verbal snowballing goes on, and the rest is history. I'm not one for backing down, so off to the races it goes. God damn, I never wanted to be ranting and raving at one of my favorite bands like this, but the responses mixed with my prednisone riled me up. Yeah, it was letting off some steam too, so many times these bigger bands let you down and you can never tell them what you feel, getting the ear of a band I percieved as letting me down within the hour was something else.
For what it's worth, which I realize aint shit at this point, I apologize.
Oh shit, now you got me "realizing" as well. argh!
NvmbrsDoom5
Member
The problem with alot of this is when it comes across on the internet, it's hard to get the tone of humor and sarcasm and such things at times. As Paul said, had this been approached in a different manner right off the bat, this would've all been received differently. We're all for joking around and giving/taking shit sometimes from friends. For all we know, or knew, you're someone who just genuinely hates us and wanted to start an internet war for the fun of it. You may or may not be surprised how often that kind of shit has happened. There's alot of sad people with too much time on their hands.
Well hopefully at least the point has been made clear that you and everyone else here is welcome to challenge us on whatever you want or things you dislike, etc. It'd just be very appreciated and go down a bit smoother when things are a bit more cordially done, at least at first.
I was thinking earlier today, about how many bands I know who I really like overall but I can safely say that their discographies tend to be spotty for me personally. Especially bands who tend to not stick with one formula or sound for too long. Like I said I can completely understand where certain things like very depressive and personal lyrics will just NOT click with certain people and their tastes and sensibilities. And I can understand how it can be disappointing when certain facets of a band's sound (such as the female vox, in our case) are taken out of the equation. I don't apologise for any of it because we honestly did these things or made these changes because it felt right for us. Will we ever have female vox again? Will we ever move away from the overly personal lyrics? Perhaps, I never say never, but it will depend on where our heads are at and in what way we're inspired at that time. Perhaps the next cd will appeal a bit more to those who disliked TPHD. Or perhaps they'll hate this new one even more. Who knows? Either way, we're pleased with the results. My suggestion to anyone out there who might be uncertain about whether or not to chance purchasing our next cd is, take some time first, read a few reviews, check out preview tracks (we almost always have free preview tracks available somewhere for download, and usually more than just one song....I completely understand how only one song can be very deceiving in trying to judge an entire cd, especially with a band like ours) and by all means, post here and talk to us about it....nicely, please LOL
Well hopefully at least the point has been made clear that you and everyone else here is welcome to challenge us on whatever you want or things you dislike, etc. It'd just be very appreciated and go down a bit smoother when things are a bit more cordially done, at least at first.
I was thinking earlier today, about how many bands I know who I really like overall but I can safely say that their discographies tend to be spotty for me personally. Especially bands who tend to not stick with one formula or sound for too long. Like I said I can completely understand where certain things like very depressive and personal lyrics will just NOT click with certain people and their tastes and sensibilities. And I can understand how it can be disappointing when certain facets of a band's sound (such as the female vox, in our case) are taken out of the equation. I don't apologise for any of it because we honestly did these things or made these changes because it felt right for us. Will we ever have female vox again? Will we ever move away from the overly personal lyrics? Perhaps, I never say never, but it will depend on where our heads are at and in what way we're inspired at that time. Perhaps the next cd will appeal a bit more to those who disliked TPHD. Or perhaps they'll hate this new one even more. Who knows? Either way, we're pleased with the results. My suggestion to anyone out there who might be uncertain about whether or not to chance purchasing our next cd is, take some time first, read a few reviews, check out preview tracks (we almost always have free preview tracks available somewhere for download, and usually more than just one song....I completely understand how only one song can be very deceiving in trying to judge an entire cd, especially with a band like ours) and by all means, post here and talk to us about it....nicely, please LOL
CladInDarkness
Under A Blackened Sky
affinityband said:
Ah well what can I say? I will be
I'll have a drink of gin for you and Tommy before I see him!
Sadguru
In my dream...
Some other thoughts:
I remember how exited I was when The Pale Haunt Departure first came out. All was there: new label, a++ artwork, praises from numerous reviews and the the great enthousiasm showed by the band. It was almost a blind buy for me. Being curious, I downloaded one song, that song was called "Autumn Reflection". It hit me so hard that I instantly deleted the file and ordered the album with fast shipping. Upon listening to the other songs, I felt disappointed. I wanted to actually "get it", but no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't. First came the disappointment, then the rationalisation: "This album is too much "this" and not enough "that"; too brutal, not enough laid back, delicate and melancholic". I had the same attitude with Katatonia's "Viva Emptiness". I thought to myself: "Where are the bleak, ghostly, desperate atmospheres?? It's too much in your face" and so on...Until I realise that "The Great Cold Distance" had a similar approach but for some reasons, it became my favorite Katatonia album.
Too often, we are caught in comparisons which prevend us to be in direct connection with the music. I think that interpreting something new in functions of past material is a mistake, and a dreadful one. I think musical wonder always operate when the mind is open, flexible and free from past experiences. I think one must listen to an album for what it is, instead of what it should be. That's our biggest challenge as music adorers.
I remember how exited I was when The Pale Haunt Departure first came out. All was there: new label, a++ artwork, praises from numerous reviews and the the great enthousiasm showed by the band. It was almost a blind buy for me. Being curious, I downloaded one song, that song was called "Autumn Reflection". It hit me so hard that I instantly deleted the file and ordered the album with fast shipping. Upon listening to the other songs, I felt disappointed. I wanted to actually "get it", but no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't. First came the disappointment, then the rationalisation: "This album is too much "this" and not enough "that"; too brutal, not enough laid back, delicate and melancholic". I had the same attitude with Katatonia's "Viva Emptiness". I thought to myself: "Where are the bleak, ghostly, desperate atmospheres?? It's too much in your face" and so on...Until I realise that "The Great Cold Distance" had a similar approach but for some reasons, it became my favorite Katatonia album.
Too often, we are caught in comparisons which prevend us to be in direct connection with the music. I think that interpreting something new in functions of past material is a mistake, and a dreadful one. I think musical wonder always operate when the mind is open, flexible and free from past experiences. I think one must listen to an album for what it is, instead of what it should be. That's our biggest challenge as music adorers.
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