Hardcore...yay or nay?
- Thread starter digitaldemon62
- Start date
nergal_S
St. Anger around my neck.
i am not judging them on there image at all, i am just saying thats how metal bands look, and thats how hard core/ and nu metal bands look. thats it. I could care less personaly. I am just pointing it out because you were saying there the same
J.
Old Fart
Well, when you post pictures of Stampin' Ground and Unleashed, of course they will look different. They are coming from two different genres of metal. That's like posting a picture of My Dying Bride (draped in all their black) and then posting a picture of Meshuggah. They both look totally different, yet belong in the all-encompassing tag of 'metal'.
Going back to my previous point of bands like Mastodon, TitD, and Neurosis. I'm curious if you peg these bands as metal. Most of the band members have short hair, but like I said, these bands are harder and possess more metal aspects than your average death or black metal band, which is attitude.
Going back to my previous point of bands like Mastodon, TitD, and Neurosis. I'm curious if you peg these bands as metal. Most of the band members have short hair, but like I said, these bands are harder and possess more metal aspects than your average death or black metal band, which is attitude.
J.
Old Fart
J.
Old Fart
PaulRawNerve
QUIM!
okay fool, try and classify my band ..
5 of us in the band .. 3 with long hair, 2 with short ..
2 are stoner metal hippies, 1 a cyber goth/black metaller, 1 death metaller with short hair, 1 into mainly noisecore ..
we are equal parts deformity/ arkangel/ (2 highly recommended bands, essentially hardcore, virtually death metal) .. cryptopsy, cannibal corpse, dying fetus (death metal), add in dark ambient, grind, noisecore ala converge, botch, dillinger, and some weird off kilter stuff like meshuggah..
but we are still essentially metal ..
if you judge on image then you are asking for a slating, thats a fuckin pathetic way .. by the fact that you say "this is what metal look like, this is what hardcore looks like" you are typifying exactly the reason why there is such a divide ..
WHY should there be a divide between metal and hardcore, or metal and punk as you say it originally is!? ..
and to be honest with you ProphesizedDoom, why should i even bother trying, when all you are gonna try and do is patronize me by acting like you are a know it all!? ..
granted you may be into some cool stuff, and know your stuff, but at the end of the day its still all opinions, and you cant tell me MY opinions on the metal and hardcore scene that i have been involved with for a long fuckin time are wrong ..
i will more than happily see and accept your perspective, but accept the fact that i also might disagree and stop so lame!
oh, and before i get replies about things such as how talented these bands are, death metal bands are generally more talented than hardcore bands, truth, thats why i PREFER death metal over just about anything else, but i still have a love for hardcore, because there is a lot of good in there too, and a lot of bloody good song writers also
dreamlord - you rule .. you seem to know and appreciate the correct angles to take this on, and the argument about the kinda bands that metallers support, and that neurosis were originally a punk/hardcore band anyways was spot on to a tee..
ProphesizedDoom - when i say at the end of the day its all just metal . its just a phrase, i know it isnt LITERALLY all just metal .. what would the point of classifying bands seperately be if it WAS all just metal .. just understand the point that i am trying to make, that the entire scene (grunge/rock/metal/hardcore) can be a united scene overall, bringing together more bands, giving more chances for the new bands to make it somewhere, giving generally a massive kick up the ass for the amount of attention that all bands within those scenes will gain, and to me i see nothing wrong with that..
"Unfortunately they have some idiotic mindset that maybe if they try hard enough we can all get along and hold hands while abstaining from sex until marriage in a drug/alcohol free world in which we can all know karate for when a show comes around."
okay, so you are now centreing this towards the straight edgers/vegans etc .. not ALL hardcore people think this way, so does that make them okay in your book, if they arent into that scene, but love the music?
cos i love the music, am as metal as anyone else, yet aint sXe..
"nergal_S hard core is not metal. thats why its not called metal, and that why the people who listin to it dont want it to be linked with metal."
what a crock of shit!!! .. i know fuckin loads of people who are into cannibal corpse and dillinger escape plan equally, or minor threat and brutal truth equally, or emperor and slipknot equally ..
okay people, explain this to me, why, within hardcore is there TWO genre splits? .. hardcore punk and hardcore metal? ..
union9
He Who Can Not Be Named
Paul.You Da man.
By the way.I just got the Terrorizer issue with your band on the cd(The only cd i have recieved in years mind you.Australians get nothing from Terroizer) and the track rocked.You and Cry Debris were the only decent bands on it in my opinion.Good stuff.If you guy's ever come to Australia,we can hook you up with some gigs to easy.
Hey dreamlord.We should've got Nathan in on this thread.He would've had a ball.hahaha.
By the way.I just got the Terrorizer issue with your band on the cd(The only cd i have recieved in years mind you.Australians get nothing from Terroizer) and the track rocked.You and Cry Debris were the only decent bands on it in my opinion.Good stuff.If you guy's ever come to Australia,we can hook you up with some gigs to easy.
Hey dreamlord.We should've got Nathan in on this thread.He would've had a ball.hahaha.
J.
Old Fart
Messiah_May86
Freak Soul Child
how could you say emo is gay. i love emo have you not heard of planes mistaken for stars?
if you slag it off again i'll cry, then you'll have the terrible guilt of making a 16 year old girl cry.........for shame on you!
if you slag it off again i'll cry, then you'll have the terrible guilt of making a 16 year old girl cry.........for shame on you!
Messiah_May86
Freak Soul Child
if they aren't why are they signed to deep elm records and why do they feature on many an emo record.....now im crying oh bugger it all!
nergal_S
St. Anger around my neck.
PaulTangaroa
.. you make some good points. But look at it this way. You pay 30$ to go see hypocrisy right. Your a huge Hypo death metal fan. So you want to see other bands of similar style to hypocrisy open, for example maybe candelmass, or somthing along these lines. Instead you get killswitch engage, scar culture, and some other garbage century media wants to sell. Ok so who gose to watch Kill switch engage and all that nu metal/ hard core stuff? The hard core kids do, all the metal heads are in the back waiting for hypocrisy to come on while all this garbage is being played, and you could see the tension betwean the
hard core and metal head crowd. Hard core crowed is jumping all over the place hitting every one and every thing like a bunch of idiots. While the metal crowed is acctualy watching the band play. Ok when hypocrisy come on this is when all the metal heads move up. Up to the front of the show, so all the hard core kids start going crazy and kicking every one in the front and punch random people, (most of them are like 14-17) so the metal heads all get pissed of because they are trying to watch the band they enjoy while some hard core kids are just there to fight and make problems. This is why i dont like hard core and this is why i dont want it to me mixed with metal. And this is why i probley will never go to a metal show aggain that has a hard core band opening. Because it ruines every thing. Yesterday i was at blind gaurdian here in L.A. and it was basicly all metal heads except for 3 or 4 kids. And these 3 or 4 kids got in the middle of the show and started kicking and punching every one, you could tell before long those kids were thrown out of the show, because the metal heads were trying the watch the bands while those kids are there to fight? If the hard core fans came to watch the band and enjoy the music thats fine, but they dont they come to basicly fight with each other and make it un fun for every one else. This is why i dont want any thing to do with hard core, i hope this cleared it up for you.
.. you make some good points. But look at it this way. You pay 30$ to go see hypocrisy right. Your a huge Hypo death metal fan. So you want to see other bands of similar style to hypocrisy open, for example maybe candelmass, or somthing along these lines. Instead you get killswitch engage, scar culture, and some other garbage century media wants to sell. Ok so who gose to watch Kill switch engage and all that nu metal/ hard core stuff? The hard core kids do, all the metal heads are in the back waiting for hypocrisy to come on while all this garbage is being played, and you could see the tension betwean the
hard core and metal head crowd. Hard core crowed is jumping all over the place hitting every one and every thing like a bunch of idiots. While the metal crowed is acctualy watching the band play. Ok when hypocrisy come on this is when all the metal heads move up. Up to the front of the show, so all the hard core kids start going crazy and kicking every one in the front and punch random people, (most of them are like 14-17) so the metal heads all get pissed of because they are trying to watch the band they enjoy while some hard core kids are just there to fight and make problems. This is why i dont like hard core and this is why i dont want it to me mixed with metal. And this is why i probley will never go to a metal show aggain that has a hard core band opening. Because it ruines every thing. Yesterday i was at blind gaurdian here in L.A. and it was basicly all metal heads except for 3 or 4 kids. And these 3 or 4 kids got in the middle of the show and started kicking and punching every one, you could tell before long those kids were thrown out of the show, because the metal heads were trying the watch the bands while those kids are there to fight? If the hard core fans came to watch the band and enjoy the music thats fine, but they dont they come to basicly fight with each other and make it un fun for every one else. This is why i dont want any thing to do with hard core, i hope this cleared it up for you.
Messiah_May86
Freak Soul Child
wow i typed a really long reply to what you said then my computor crashed on me i havnt got the heart to go type it out again so basically what im saying is, Hardcore was made by aggressive kids who wanted to fight what ever was playing. They didnt (and still dont) care what anyone thought about them.
J.
Old Fart
If I may post a rebuttal....thank you.
First of all, bad example, seeing how Hypocrisy has moved into the realm of pseudo death metal with SLipknot influences. So of course you're going to get less-brutal bands like Darkest Hour or Killswitch Engage, but those two bands are anything but nu-metal.
Also, you paid $30 to see Hypocrisy. Did you think to see who else was on the bill before paying? I don't see how you can act surprised when Killswitch Engage show up when all you need to do is check the bill listing.
About the Blind Guardian concert. You said 3 or 4 kids started punching everyone. What makes you think these "kids" listen to hardcore? Were they wearing hardcore t-shirts? For all you know, they could have started a fight because someone spilled a beer on them. And i seriously doubt hardcore "kids" would go to a Blind Guardian show.
The thing is, I bet you are basing this whole "I don't want to go to another concert with hardcore bands" rant on ONE experience. If I based everything on just one experience, I would have deprived myself of lots of things. FOr example, I've listened to power metal one time (Blind Guardian's 'Somewhere Far beyond') and I must say it is a steaming pile of cow shit. Yet, I will continue to try to listen to power metal.
First of all, bad example, seeing how Hypocrisy has moved into the realm of pseudo death metal with SLipknot influences. So of course you're going to get less-brutal bands like Darkest Hour or Killswitch Engage, but those two bands are anything but nu-metal.
Also, you paid $30 to see Hypocrisy. Did you think to see who else was on the bill before paying? I don't see how you can act surprised when Killswitch Engage show up when all you need to do is check the bill listing.
About the Blind Guardian concert. You said 3 or 4 kids started punching everyone. What makes you think these "kids" listen to hardcore? Were they wearing hardcore t-shirts? For all you know, they could have started a fight because someone spilled a beer on them. And i seriously doubt hardcore "kids" would go to a Blind Guardian show.
The thing is, I bet you are basing this whole "I don't want to go to another concert with hardcore bands" rant on ONE experience. If I based everything on just one experience, I would have deprived myself of lots of things. FOr example, I've listened to power metal one time (Blind Guardian's 'Somewhere Far beyond') and I must say it is a steaming pile of cow shit. Yet, I will continue to try to listen to power metal.
PaulRawNerve
QUIM!
okay, right, nergal, what planet are you actually on!? ..
you go on about the kids at hardcore gigs fighting and all that .. every metal gig i go to, that at least has quite a known band, has a PIT!! .. where people intentionally throw each other around, and kick out and punch out and all sorts .. i went to see the berzerker, labrat, insision and red harvest for the 2nd time on the tour last night .. and insision (full on death metal) had a pit, with fighting and pushing and punching etc etc ..
insision aint a hardcore band, but the response in the crowd was what you are saying happens at a hardcore show ..
so come on, are you SERIOUSLY saying no fighting or pitting action goes on in metal shows.. dont give me that crap .. ive seen people get broken in half and taken to hospital and limbs broken and everything at cannibal corpse, deicide, morbid angel shows etc ..
now it seems you have had some bad experiences with the hardcore kids, and fair enough, thats where your opinions come from, but you seem to be saying that you are right you are right all the time, when other people must have different experiences..
now fair enough, ive seen fighting at hardcore shows in the pit, and ive seen plenty of dickheads causing trouble instead of enjoying, but ive also definitely seen that at death and black metal shows, and ive seen it at football games when i was younger, and ive seen it on the streets of leeds and liverpool and wherever ..
there are dickheads everywhere, and there are cool people everywhere, who know what they are doing .. and the fact is that you cant get away from it, but if you actually respond in the right manner you CAN do something about it,
and i will tell you something else as well, about these shows that you go to .. i bet there are lots more hardcore kids at the shows that you dont even know about .. you only notice that there are some there cos you see them pitting in front of you ..
okay, what would you say about me, one night i might turn up to a gig in a strife t-shirt .. immediately you would call me a hardcore kid right? cos i wear baggies and chains and have piercings and tattoos .. but then the next night i might turn up in an emperor tshirt .. and then a nile shirt, and then a dillinger escape plan tshirt, and then an eternal suffering tshirt!!!
so go on then, am i a pesky hardcore kid or am i one of the good death metal fans that you like!?
oh yeah, and aside from that, going back to your point (sorry about the ramble, and it wasnt all directed at you mr nergal, its just general commenting), if i paid 30$ (£20 in english right?) to go see hypocrisy, i would want to be seeing at least about 6 or 7 bands, as thats a lot for a show like that over here, most i would pay would be about 12 or 13 quid to see at least 4 named bands ..
but yeah, that aside, if kill switch engage played with hypocrisy, i would be a) a bit surprised, but b) quite happy, as i like KSE!!!
i guess that doesnt help your point that much!!
you go on about the kids at hardcore gigs fighting and all that .. every metal gig i go to, that at least has quite a known band, has a PIT!! .. where people intentionally throw each other around, and kick out and punch out and all sorts .. i went to see the berzerker, labrat, insision and red harvest for the 2nd time on the tour last night .. and insision (full on death metal) had a pit, with fighting and pushing and punching etc etc ..
insision aint a hardcore band, but the response in the crowd was what you are saying happens at a hardcore show ..
so come on, are you SERIOUSLY saying no fighting or pitting action goes on in metal shows.. dont give me that crap .. ive seen people get broken in half and taken to hospital and limbs broken and everything at cannibal corpse, deicide, morbid angel shows etc ..
now it seems you have had some bad experiences with the hardcore kids, and fair enough, thats where your opinions come from, but you seem to be saying that you are right you are right all the time, when other people must have different experiences..
now fair enough, ive seen fighting at hardcore shows in the pit, and ive seen plenty of dickheads causing trouble instead of enjoying, but ive also definitely seen that at death and black metal shows, and ive seen it at football games when i was younger, and ive seen it on the streets of leeds and liverpool and wherever ..
there are dickheads everywhere, and there are cool people everywhere, who know what they are doing .. and the fact is that you cant get away from it, but if you actually respond in the right manner you CAN do something about it,
and i will tell you something else as well, about these shows that you go to .. i bet there are lots more hardcore kids at the shows that you dont even know about .. you only notice that there are some there cos you see them pitting in front of you ..
okay, what would you say about me, one night i might turn up to a gig in a strife t-shirt .. immediately you would call me a hardcore kid right? cos i wear baggies and chains and have piercings and tattoos .. but then the next night i might turn up in an emperor tshirt .. and then a nile shirt, and then a dillinger escape plan tshirt, and then an eternal suffering tshirt!!!
so go on then, am i a pesky hardcore kid or am i one of the good death metal fans that you like!?
oh yeah, and aside from that, going back to your point (sorry about the ramble, and it wasnt all directed at you mr nergal, its just general commenting), if i paid 30$ (£20 in english right?) to go see hypocrisy, i would want to be seeing at least about 6 or 7 bands, as thats a lot for a show like that over here, most i would pay would be about 12 or 13 quid to see at least 4 named bands ..
but yeah, that aside, if kill switch engage played with hypocrisy, i would be a) a bit surprised, but b) quite happy, as i like KSE!!!
i guess that doesnt help your point that much!!
PaulRawNerve
QUIM!
hahah!! and the last comments about power metal!! nice one!!
i really really really hate it, and its not that ive not heard it properly either .. as in i have LOTS of mates that are into it .. and i actually run a club night where one of the DJ's plays some of it, i appreciate that people like it, i hate it, big fuckin deal, just get on with it .. and its the same with hardcore and metal and whatever else you want to mention ..
i really really really hate it, and its not that ive not heard it properly either .. as in i have LOTS of mates that are into it .. and i actually run a club night where one of the DJ's plays some of it, i appreciate that people like it, i hate it, big fuckin deal, just get on with it .. and its the same with hardcore and metal and whatever else you want to mention ..
That's the thing Hardcore has NO roots in metal, so please refrain fromm being a complete dumbass.
Hardcore is a more extreme version of punk with break downs incorporated, so unless Punk is also metal, then hardcore isn't. Hardcore roots are in punk, and always have been. Asshole, get your facts straight before you spew more idiocy.
By Stoner Rock I'm taking you mean Sludgecore, which has Death Metal roots, idiot.
Also Nuerosis isn't hardcore, they're too experimental to be, nor are they metal, I will argue that to the bitter end.
Today is the Day I haven't heard, but I'm almost sure you're wrong on them too considering half the stuff you come up with I've disproven.
Mastodon is metal, and not hardcore. They're a progressive form of Metal, and they have absolutely no hardcore riffing style's in them, hence you're wrong again.
Please, refrain from being stupid any further, one can only tolerate out-smarting you so many times.
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