Heavy Metal vs Religion, an interesting comparison

[Jim LotFP]

Going to metal-archives.com, when it works anyway, is always interesting.

Searching for "Christ" in the band name section gets a lot of results. Four different Antichrists. Rotting Christ. Behead Christ. Christ Skinner, Christ Denied, etc etc. You get the idea. Christfight. hahaha.

Album titles, searching for "Christ":
Spit In The Face Of Christ, 666 Antichristian Division, Death To Christianity, etc etc. 372 matches, although I'm sure there are plenty of neutral or pro-Christ songs in there. But there are loads and loads of anti-Christian album titles, and that's just for searching for the specific word "Christ".

Song titles, searching for "Christ":
2408 matches. Holy shit. I'll leave it up ot you to research how many of those are pro or con for Christ.

Band names, searching for "Mohammed", "Muhammed", "Islam", or "Muslim":
One match. Just one. A NSBM band called Muslimcorpse.

Album titles, searching for "Mohammed", "Muhammed", "Islam", or "Muslim":
Zero matches.

Song titles, searching for "Mohammed", "Muhammed", "Islam", or "Muslim":
25 results. Only five if we are just looking for "Mohammed". Including this gem by Lanz:Allah was a faggot and got fucked by his Mohammed.

Answer the following questions:

1- Do you believe that your religion is a choice you make?

2. Do heavy metal bands target Christianity because they mean it, or just because they can?

3. Do you think the criticisms usually leveled at Christianity by heavy metal bands also apply to Islam?

4. Given current world events and how they are affecting especially metal-prolific Scandinavian countries, do you expect more anti-Islam themed band names, album names, and song titles?

5. Would an anti-Islam band face more difficulties establishing and promoting itself than an anti-Christian band would? Why?

6. Do you think there would be different consequences for musicians being openly anti-Islam as opposed to being anti-Christian? Why?

7. Do you think Century Media or The End Records would sign and release albums by a band called Rotting Mohammed?

8. Do these questions make you uncomfortable?

9. Do your answers to these questions make you uncomfortable?

 

[BenMech]

(snip)
Answer the following questions:

1. Do heavy metal bands target Christianity because they mean it, or just because they can?

depends on the band. Some actually mean it. Others you can tell the quick money schemes in their eyes

2. Do you think the criticisms usually leveled at Christianity by heavy metal bands also apply to Islam?

Yes, easily. HOWEVER, Islam has different rules about it.

3. Given current world events and how they are affecting especially metal-prolific Scandinavian countries, do you expect more anti-Islam themed band names, album names, and song titles?

No. Bands don't read newspapers or watch news. Those who/that do get scoffed at.

4. Would an anti-Islam band face more difficulties establishing and promoting itself than an anti-Christian band would? Why?

Yes. Because nobody is seen to care.

5. Do you think there would be different consequences for musicians being openly anti-Islam as opposed to being anti-Christian? Why?

Yes. I can't put my finger on it easily.

6. Do you think Century Media or The End Records would sign and release albums by a band called Rotting Mohammed?

no.

7. Do these questions make you uncomfortable?

More comfortable than anything softball.

8. Do your answers to these questions make you uncomfortable?

nope

 

[Occam's Razor]

Christianity as it is today is only worth attacking because of its ridiculousness and half-hearted followers - if that is a reason for attacking it at all.
Islam has for sure also its "secularised" followers; however, radicals dominate public attention and give many reasons to hate this religion. Is hate a reason for attack? Obviously, but what prevents bands from doing it is maybe a notion of taboo or strange respect.

Moreover, they'd be outside looking in. Metal bands largely come from Christian countries and know what they criticise better than they would if attacking a different religion...who knows?

Tricky subject, really...and "Rotting Mohammed" would not make me uncomfortable so much - it only sounds more extreme because we are all deadened by anti-Christian imagery. It would be novel; it would shock certain people...and it could be dangerous for those that carry the name...

Was there not a band on Blabbermouth apologizing for their name..."Muhamad" or something?

 

[Jim LotFP]

Christianity as it is today is only worth attacking because of its ridiculousness and half-hearted followers - if that is a reason for attacking it at all.

I always thought the idea of attacking it was because of its unreasonable power over those that disagree with it. I'd rather deal with a horde of "Christmas and Easter only" churchgoers than the folks at godhatesfags.com.

But it hasn't been all that long since Christians were slaughtering Christians for... not observing religious ceremony the exact same way.

Moreover, they'd be outside looking in. Metal bands largely come from Christian countries and know what they criticise better than they would if attacking a different religion...who knows?

I think this is it, but from a different perspective. Rappers can call each other "my pals" over and over, and it's "OK*, because it's "those people" calling "themselves" the "bad word." So you have heavy metal heathens who are in Christian-dominated nations badmouthing Christianity. I really don't think people take it seriously. I think it's seen as some sort of juvenile bid for attention, which it may well be in many cases. But it becomes, in the eyes of those thinking that nobody could REALLY reject God, Christian people calling Christian worshippers bad. No big deal because it's "us" calling "us" "bad words."

... but the Muslim culture is different. If one of "us" (Western Christian type, no matter our religion) insults "them", they go fucking berserk. They are rioting and killing over cartoons they are not allowed to see. That scares the fuck out of me. And it is causing French newspaper editors to be fired, it's causing at least one Swedish paper to have its website shut down for printing the cartoons... this is bad, bad shit.

But attack (or in this case, comment on or criticize) Islam, and you aren't considered to be attacking an idea, or an opinion. You'll be treated as like you're a Nazi or a member of the KKK, and it's not the same thing. How many uprisings in the Muslim world have we seen where people say "We're sick of this religious government shit?" Is it because the common man there is what we would call a "fanatic", or is it because the government/church is intolerant of dissent and brutal in suppressing it? Neither option makes me feel good for the future.

The thing is, I fall into the same trap of stupid thought. If anti-Christian thought is censored or just not thought of in the mainstream press, it's just "us" censoring "us", like some in-house thing. The idea of people in a different region of the world causing our freedoms of expression to be lessened seems worse because it's an "alien" outside force imposing its will.

Or maybe it's because the Christian theocracies in Europe have pretty much fallen and news reports of what the Taliban was like (even before 9/11, but then it was just "those wacky misguided foreigners" instead of "those evil bastards") are just fresher in the mind.

Is it reason or prejudice that I consider Tehran to be a bigger threat to my way of life than Rome?

Of course, once the tr00 Christian believers get it in their head that this other religion is beyond criticism, wait for them to demand their extra protection from comment or criticism.

Dark ages are here again.

Tricky subject, really...and "Rotting Mohammed" would not make me uncomfortable so much - it only sounds more extreme because we are all deadened by anti-Christian imagery. It would be novel; it would shock certain people...and it could be dangerous for those that carry the name...

I want to see a band called Rotting Mohammed get signed, and I want to see that label be advertise in all the national glossy metal magazines. I want to see a magazine with Rotting Mohammed on the stand next to the cooking and housekeeping magazines. I want to open the newspaper and see the gig advertisement for Rotting Mohammed's local tour stop.

I think cultural pressure would stop this long before the actual "danger" was a factor.

Was there not a band on Blabbermouth apologizing for their name..."Muhamad" or something?

They're idiots. If they meant to be anti-Muslim in the first place, they are pussies who have no balls, poseurs of the worst kind who back down when their opinion could make a statement. If they didn't mean to be anti-Muslim and they had no actual comment about Islam and just thought they'd call a band Mohammed, then fuck them for bending over backwards for no reason at all.

NP: Deicide- Behead the Prophet (No Lord Shall Live)

 

[Jim LotFP]

I think this is it, but from a different perspective. Rappers can call each other "my pals" over and over, and it's "OK*, because it's "those people" calling "themselves" the "bad word."

http://www.weakgame.com/media_7089_Racist_Teacher.html

This clip sums up how ridiculous shit is.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I always thought the idea of attacking it was because of its unreasonable power over those that disagree with it. I'd rather deal with a horde of "Christmas and Easter only" churchgoers than the folks at godhatesfags.com.

Yes, but that is no more like it was in the Crusades - take an acquaintance of mine who worked at a Christian kindergarten and was pregnant from her friend - not husband. She was advised to marry or look for a new job...it's covert mostly, although the inquisition still exists - with its former head now being the pope.

What is most frightening to me is this Creationism-thing going on at the moment, in particular the US.

]I think it's seen as some sort of juvenile bid for attention, which it may well be in many cases. But it becomes, in the eyes of those thinking that nobody could REALLY reject God, Christian people calling Christian worshippers bad. No big deal because it's "us" calling "us" "bad words."

Now with these caricatures, there has been a report in the news about the state of affairs in Germany concerning defamation of religion. You can go to jail for wearing a shirt that displays Jesus as a pig on the cross! - I never knew that, and obviously (gladly) nobody makes use of such laws...

If one of "us" (Western Christian type, no matter our religion) insults "them", they go fucking berserk. They are rioting and killing over cartoons they are not allowed to see. That scares the fuck out of me. And it is causing French newspaper editors to be fired, it's causing at least one Swedish paper to have its website shut down for printing the cartoons... this is bad, bad shit.

A lot of this is heated up by their radical "Imams" and other leading figures. Those cartoons were not considered for weeks till somebody hyped it up.
But you cannot generalize - the chief editor of a muslim newspaper (in Syria, I believe) had to quit his job because he asked why such cartoons cause upstarts among muslims while suicide attacks in the name of their religion cause no reactions...bad shit as well..

Then, I have seen several caricatures from muslim newspapers: one showing Ariel Sharon maiming Palestine children with a club in the shape of a Swastika...he who sits in a glass house should not throw stones.

]Is it reason or prejudice that I consider Tehran to be a bigger threat to my way of life than Rome?)

I share that view with you, not only because they might use the bomb, but provoke others like Israel to act without thought. I think the US though will be careful to experience pushing the red button again after Hiroshima and Nagasaki



Everytime something like this pops up, Blabbermouth had some news item remotely related to that, e.g. when these terror acts in Syria happened, bam - they had a thing about a Syrian band on their site they would not have cared for otherwise...what do they want to say with this? - "Look, metal is there too, so it cannot be as bad?!"

 

[Jim LotFP]

Yes, but that is no more like it was in the Crusades - take an acquaintance of mine who worked at a Christian kindergarten and was pregnant from her friend - not husband. She was advised to marry or look for a new job...it's covert mostly, although the inquisition still exists - with its former head now being the pope.

I have no knowledge of what schooling is like here in Europe. Not one iota of anything resembling a clue.

But in the US, there is a huge problem. I think sending a child to a government-run school is tantamount to child abuse and is the best way to retard the development of your child...

... but almost all private schools are expensive and Christian. What to do?

This is why home-schooling is becoming a bigger thing in the States, even if it's mostly Christians doing that too. I wonder if you're allowed to do that in Finland...

What is most frightening to me is this Creationism-thing going on at the moment, in particular the US.

Remember, the Christians act like they are an oppressed minority... just because they can't act like a dictatorial majority. Doesn't matter that anybody in any position of power has to be Christian (or Jewish, you know, Christian Jr) or they are not allowed to be in positions of power doesn't matter.

It's actually amazing that the US Constitution has actually worked to the degree it has in keeping these people from ruling completely.

(I actually think the Bill of Rights is the most magnificent document ever created by man... too bad it isn't actually followed these days...)

Now with these caricatures, there has been a report in the news about the state of affairs in Germany concerning defamation of religion. You can go to jail for wearing a shirt that displays Jesus as a pig on the cross! - I never knew that, and obviously (gladly) nobody makes use of such laws...

Fuck me Jesus! Jesus is a Cunt!

Freedom of religion and freedom of expression as long as your religion and expression is approved.

But you cannot generalize - the chief editor of a muslim newspaper (in Syria, I believe) had to quit his job because he asked why such cartoons cause upstarts among muslims while suicide attacks in the name of their religion cause no reactions...bad shit as well..

Wasn't that guy actually arrested?

Then, I have seen several caricatures from muslim newspapers: one showing Ariel Sharon maiming Palestine children with a club in the shape of a Swastika...he who sits in a glass house should not throw stones.

I've heard that the rabblerousers are displaying cartoons that were never printed in Europe. I can't find a link that states this, but wouldn't that be interesting?

I share that view with you, not only because they might use the bomb, but provoke others like Israel to act without thought. I think the US though will be careful to experience pushing the red button again after Hiroshima and Nagasaki

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Everytime something like this pops up, Blabbermouth had some news item remotely related to that, e.g. when these terror acts in Syria happened, bam - they had a thing about a Syrian band on their site they would not have cared for otherwise...what do they want to say with this? - "Look, metal is there too, so it cannot be as bad?!"

Too bad I can't cause controversy as easily as Blabbermouth. A news item declaring "Dave Mustaine claims Cliff Burton couldn't grill burgers very well" would result in 500 messages calling Mustaine a bastard for disrespecting a fallen hero and take this to prove that Mustaine was always jealous of Metallica.

 

[dia_hain]

I think christianity is worth stomping out. That is the whole point.

christians attack certain groups of people, ALL THE TIME. They always have and always will. Why would there even be any anti-christian bands in the first place? It's just retaliation.

It's not like attacking them is a waste of time because it's not. Minds are changed everyday. Plus, it scares those god fearing idiots and it's funny.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Christianity has long since failed as a belief system of convinced followers. It is but a powerful institution nowadays that keeps up appearances and gives the simple-minded their ration of spirituality. It goes down without the help of supposed mind-turners. whose blunt attacks and upside-downturning of Chritian values are not constructive anyway...retaliation for what? - rather rebellion, often misdirected, often juvenile, mostly funny and hardly intelligent...oh and a sort of lucrative entertainment.

 

[Jim LotFP]

Christianity has long since failed as a belief system of convinced followers. It is but a powerful institution nowadays that keeps up appearances and gives the simple-minded their ration of spirituality. It goes down without the help of supposed mind-turners. whose blunt attacks and upside-downturning of Chritian values are not constructive anyway...retaliation for what? - rather rebellion, often misdirected, often juvenile, mostly funny and hardly intelligent...oh and a sort of lucrative entertainment.

The best Satanic albums ever:

Arcturus- La Masquerade Infernale
Havayoth- His Creation Reversed

 

[Occam's Razor]

The best Satanic albums ever:

Arcturus- La Masquerade Infernale
Havayoth- His Creation Reversed

but they are not restricted to just attack-hate-kill-god-fuck-jesus...

 

[BenMech]

Ceremony of Opposites and Passage, Jim?

 

[BenMech]

Yes, but that is no more like it was in the Crusades - take an acquaintance of mine who worked at a Christian kindergarten and was pregnant from her friend - not husband. She was advised to marry or look for a new job...it's covert mostly, although the inquisition still exists - with its former head now being the pope.

When the population of the business = 4-6 year old children, who do NOT have a sense of moral relativity yet, that advice actually makes sense.

What is most frightening to me is this Creationism-thing going on at the moment, in particular the US.

Oh yeah. Bigtime. It's the "He who screams loudest that he has the biggest penis, wins" theory.

Then, I have seen several caricatures from muslim newspapers: one showing Ariel Sharon maiming Palestine children with a club in the shape of a Swastika...he who sits in a glass house should not throw stones.

Yeah, The Arabs lose credibility here. They'll also say ANYTHING to get rid of the Jews in Israel.

 

[BenMech]

But in the US, there is a huge problem. I think sending a child to a government-run school is tantamount to child abuse and is the best way to retard the development of your child...

... but almost all private schools are expensive and Christian.

Not all of them. I went to a private high school and it was most definitely NOT religiously affiliated. It was expensive though.


What to do?

This is why home-schooling is becoming a bigger thing in the States, even if it's mostly Christians doing that too.

I have a theory that Home schooling has ZERO to do with the school curricullum and MOSTLY to silently scream NIMBY "We need to have OUR children kept THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME AWAY from PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EXACTLY LIKE US", which means, no Blacks, NEVER a Jew. barely an Asian, and so forth.

Remember, the Christians act like they are an oppressed minority... just because they can't act like a dictatorial majority. Doesn't matter that anybody in any position of power has to be Christian, or they are not allowed to be in positions of power doesn't matter.

I deleted your part of the statement which echoes the Fundamentalist Xtian Anti-Semitic fear. Whether you knew it was there or not.

It's actually amazing that the US Constitution has actually worked to the degree it has in keeping these people from ruling completely.

(I actually think the Bill of Rights is the most magnificent document ever created by man... too bad it isn't actually followed these days...)

Yes. I agree

Freedom of religion and freedom of expression as long as your religion and expression is approved.

If your religion and/or expression is NOT approved, you become just somebody's troll for them to ignore, like how that Laeth dude from Ray Prozzak's Anus forums never answered my questions in the other thread.

Too bad I can't cause controversy as easily as Blabbermouth. A news item declaring "Dave Mustaine claims Cliff Burton couldn't grill burgers very well" would result in 500 messages calling Mustaine a bastard for disrespecting a fallen hero and take this to prove that Mustaine was always jealous of Metallica.

bwahahaha. Meanwhile, Mustaine's a fundamentalist home-schooling Christian now.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Meanwhile, Mustaine's a fundamentalist home-schooling Christian now.

A pity for someone who showed brains within his lyrics...few poltical songtexts are actually timeless, but when i look at "Holy Wars"...

 

[Occam's Razor]

My favourite Germanm fanzine also deals wih this, in a witty way, as usual:

http://www.trollmusic.net/

 

[DBB]

What is most frightening to me is this Creationism-thing going on at the moment, in particular the US.

You should take the virtual walking tour:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum

Is it reason or prejudice that I consider Tehran to be a bigger threat to my way of life than Rome?

What really concerns me is that US and Iran are so similar in many respects. Both are countries divided almost equally between secularized consumerists who are more concerned about whether a pair of jeans look cool than what God or Allah would have to say about such decadence and the conservative/fundamentalists who want to structure society along organized and hierarchical lines.

Iran’s overall population is very young (due to the decimation of a generation during the Iran-Iraq War that saw Khomeini send thousands of soldiers to their deaths in human-wave attacks along with the carnage visited on the country by good ole Uncle Saddam), enchanted with Western popular culture and one of the primary reasons why a US attack on Iran will probably never happen. Rational and level-headed policymakers believe that the youthful composition of the population will eventually result in a country that is not a hard-line theocracy and I certainly hope this reasoned outlook prevails--but you never know.

I live in Dennis Hastert’s congressional district and the Western Suburbs of Chicago and pockets of rural America that make it up are an infuriating mix of “Get the US out of the UN” billboard erecting bible-thumpers and therapeutic-minded suburbanite Christians who view religion as a materialistic self-help plan and are just as conservative in their own way, but there are also a good number of people (not as many) who could care less about politics or religion as long as there are some bread and circuses to enjoy. George Bush was asked who his favorite political philosopher was and replied “Jesus Christ,”—but, unfortunately, this is not the Jesus Christ found in the bible Thomas Jefferson edited and compiled. Before there was Operation Enduring Freedom the operations in the wake of Sept. 11 was called Operation Infinite Justice. John Ashcroft anointed himself with Crisco before he took all his offices (reminds me of David Koresh interpreting the Jesus anointing himself with oil passage to mean that he should anoint the head of his penis with young girls' vaginal fluids).

The world is moving backwards instead of forwards and it saddens and angers me to think that it is all because of a carpenter who decided to give the middle finger to the Roman state and the rich while condensing the moral and ethical philosophies of Greece, Rome, and the Near East in a potent and popular package. Maybe I’ll make a concept album denigrating Constantine the Great and pissing on the report of the Council of Nicea.

Bands are beginning to tackle Muslim topics though. Vile The New Age of Chaos allegedly touches on the subject, according to reviewers who can’t provide examples because they don’t have a lyric sheet. Ritual Carnage’s Daniel Montgomery has a few choice words for Muslim governments and political associations on I, Infidel. Damascus Steel (if I had four thumbs they would all be up--the gritty-Caribbean street performance style conga breakdown and the cathedral organ church bellows combo in “Behold the Kindred Battle Carcasses Strewn Across the Bloodied Dunes of Gilgamesh Mute in the Clamour of Rolling Death and Bursting Steel” *whew* is truly sublime), the new The Meads of Asphodel album tells Allah to fuck off, but than again Vishnu, Mithra, Ra, Lucifer, Indra and a whole host of other deities get the same treatment. However, the album opens up with George W. Bush blathering on about how freedom is The Almighty God’s gift to every man and woman in the world.

 

[Jim LotFP]

The Meads of Asphodel

I haven't kept up with them since The Excommunication of Christ, due entirely to my laziness rather than not being interested in the band. Who is Metatron, anyway?

However, the album opens up with George W. Bush blathering on about how freedom is The Almighty God’s gift to every man and woman in the world.

I consider myself fairly right-wing politically but holy fuckin' shit I am glad I never voted for this guy. (or for Gore or Kerry, for that matter!)

 

[Occam's Razor]

Haha, thanks Jim for being the "liberal" you are and cleansing the board...

Anyway, what makes me ashamed is that a country like mine is very involved economically in states like Iran (our main business partner in the near East!), while at the sme time pointing their fingers.
But it is nothing new that Western countries provide the fundamentalists with the means to play with destruction...by the way, what do you think: Should they exclude Iran from the soccer World Championship this year?

 

[Jim LotFP]

Haha, thanks Jim for being the "liberal" you are and cleansing the board...

I had question number one there specifically to point out that we are dealing with choices people are making for themselves. I realize in some of these areas that standing up against ruling religious thought is not only socially crippling but life-threatening , but believing in something so much that you will harm other human beings is a choice these people make.

I don't believe any race/ethnicity is inferior to any other. It comes down to individuals. There are fucking ignorant, stupid, never-accomplish-anything white trash at the same time there are brilliant Arab or Indian or black doctors or lawyers or teachers. The mental and physical capacity is there for anyone. It comes down to the individual being aware of their situation, what they want their situation to be, and putting in the work and sacrifice to be in the situation they want.

I believe that is a 100% universal experience for human beings.

When I fear a Muslim influence from afar, or a heavily Christian influence at home, it is because their chosen lifestyle is going to be imposed on mine, through social pressure at least (which at least is valid every bit as much as me saying "fuck religion" to them), political pressure, or physical force if they can get away with it.

The choices people make in life, not the condition of their birth.

But it is nothing new that Western countries provide the fundamentalists with the means to play with destruction...by the way, what do you think: Should they exclude Iran from the soccer World Championship this year?

Only players involved in nuclear research should be excluded.